Author Topic: I don't get YEC.  (Read 29989 times)

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Offline Samothec

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #116 on: June 28, 2013, 02:49:57 AM »
Religion does not mention space aliens or other forms of life.

Are you sure? Watch an episode or two of "Ancient Aliens". Given how little you know and understand reality you'll believe in no time.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

Online jdawg70

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #117 on: June 28, 2013, 12:15:31 PM »
Religion does not mention space aliens or other forms of life.

Are you sure? Watch an episode or two of "Ancient Aliens". Given how little you know and understand reality you'll believe in no time.
Wouldn't 'god' and entities like 'angels' qualify as 'other forms of life' anyhow?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Online nogodsforme

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #118 on: June 28, 2013, 02:23:50 PM »

 We can't even create life here.  How could it happen by natural causes elsewhere?

That's the fallacy your religion has sold you, "It's impossible! Life couldn't possibly have came about any other way but by my assumed conception." FAIL. Just exactly how did you determine that "it's impossible"? What research did you do? Have you done any investigation in this regard?

Religion does not mention space aliens or other forms of life.

I didn't say it was impossible.  I just said there is zero evidence for it.   That usually means "not." 
I like to stick to the practical. 
Zero evidence =  Not happen.

A person is dead.  They are not missing and there is no body.  They are not dead. 
Zero evidence =  Not happen.

Religions are full of different alien forms of life: angels, spirits, demons, giants, witches, fairies. What did I leave out? Oh yeah, gods, that's what religions talk about a lot. And you are correct when you say that there is zero evidence for any of those things. As you say, zero evidence = not happen.

Now, if only people focused as little attention on supernatural magical non-existent god-beings as they currently do on the scientific exploration of the rest of the universe....
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #119 on: June 29, 2013, 12:40:50 PM »
Now, if only people focused as little attention on supernatural magical non-existent god-beings as they currently do on the scientific exploration of the rest of the universe....
I would rather have them focus as much attention on the scientific exploration of the rest of the universe as they do on religious stuff.

Online nogodsforme

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #120 on: June 29, 2013, 07:49:03 PM »
Now, if only people focused as little attention on supernatural magical non-existent god-beings as they currently do on the scientific exploration of the rest of the universe....
I would rather have them focus as much attention on the scientific exploration of the rest of the universe as they do on religious stuff.

You said it better.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #121 on: June 30, 2013, 08:39:42 AM »
Now, if only people focused as little attention on supernatural magical non-existent god-beings as they currently do on the scientific exploration of the rest of the universe....
I would rather have them focus as much attention on the scientific exploration of the rest of the universe as they do on religious stuff.

That is religious stuff.  There is nothing out there better than what we have here. 
It's the religion of space exploration.  The worship of the cosmos.  Havng faith that all
our answers are out there.  Faith that out there is wealth, and peace, and health.
That space has the answer to our origins, the answer to life.   Out there is our salvation.

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #122 on: June 30, 2013, 08:41:59 AM »
Religion does not mention space aliens or other forms of life.

Are you sure? Watch an episode or two of "Ancient Aliens". Given how little you know and understand reality you'll believe in no time.

Those are re-runs.  It was "Chariots of the Gods" in past years.
 I went through that phase soon after high school.

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #123 on: June 30, 2013, 08:43:33 AM »
Religion does not mention space aliens or other forms of life.

Are you sure? Watch an episode or two of "Ancient Aliens". Given how little you know and understand reality you'll believe in no time.
Wouldn't 'god' and entities like 'angels' qualify as 'other forms of life' anyhow?

I'm not sure if angels are material or spirit.  I've not studied that at all.

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #124 on: June 30, 2013, 08:50:09 AM »
Nobody with any real knowledge of the field is claiming that accessing space resources would / will be easy or cheap, at least to start with. There are economic problems to be overcome as well.

Your statement is much more accurate than mine was.

Offline median

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #125 on: June 30, 2013, 09:25:44 AM »

That is religious stuff.  There is nothing out there better than what we have here. 

This is a positive statement of fact (akin to saying "There is no God"). Please DEMONSTRATE how you think you know this statement is true. Since you haven't explored everything that's "out there" I predict you will very much be struggling with this one.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 09:31:17 AM by median »
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Offline median

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #126 on: June 30, 2013, 09:34:26 AM »

I'm not sure if angels are material or spirit.  I've not studied that at all.

Then why do you believe in them?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Carl Sagan

Online wheels5894

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #127 on: June 30, 2013, 09:50:37 AM »


That is religious stuff.  There is nothing out there better than what we have here. 
It's the religion of space exploration.  The worship of the cosmos.  Havng faith that all
our answers are out there.  Faith that out there is wealth, and peace, and health.
That space has the answer to our origins, the answer to life.   Out there is our salvation.

Exactly what is religious about exploration? Was the journey that found the Americas a religious quest? Was the journey that identified the Higgs Boson religious? No, of course not. People like to investigate - to explore -find out just what there is and how it works. That's all it is.

Now it is quite clear that the earth isn't going to be here for ever - well there are quite a few million years left, or course. Yet at some stage, humans, if they still exist, are going to have to move to a new planet before the sun engulfs earth is fire and radiation. There's lots of time, but we need to explore and we need to understand more about the universe in which we live.

Now, I agree with the other poster that the future is exciting with the thoughts of what we may achieve. Think what we managed in the last century. Yet there is no religious aspect to all this. Where do you see the religious part? 
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #128 on: June 30, 2013, 09:53:38 AM »
That is religious stuff.  There is nothing out there better than what we have here. 
It's the religion of space exploration.  The worship of the cosmos.  Havng faith that all
our answers are out there.  Faith that out there is wealth, and peace, and health.
That space has the answer to our origins, the answer to life.   Out there is our salvation.
The only religious faith here is your own.  And you're making the extremely common mistake of equivocating that faith with the attitudes of others.  Frankly, you're only deceiving yourself when you write things like this.

Space will not be our 'salvation' - salvation implies an end.  It simply is our future.

Online ParkingPlaces

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #129 on: June 30, 2013, 10:10:34 AM »

That is religious stuff.  There is nothing out there better than what we have here. 
It's the religion of space exploration.  The worship of the cosmos.  Havng faith that all
our answers are out there.  Faith that out there is wealth, and peace, and health.
That space has the answer to our origins, the answer to life.   Out there is our salvation.

One cannot compare curiosity (space study/exploration) with religion. Well, one can, but one would be wrong.

The difference is simple. Wanting to know things leads not only to new knowledge, but to interesting stuff. If you've flown on an airplane, the very effective de-icing system for the wings? NASA did that. Do you have an LED flashlight? NASA was on the forefront of researching those bulbs. Know anyone with a cochclear implant? That's space technology in action. Been ripped off because you bought one of those cheap memory foam mattresses? Thank NASA research.

While I understand that you would prefer that people just sit on their asses and read the bible, those of us not inclined to do so occasionally go out and do things. Like learn stuff. And invent stuff. And whether it is the computer screen you are reading this reply on, or the Internet connections that make it possible, someone without a giant picture of a white jesus on their wall created it. And keep in mind that your dark ages mentality does not make for a viable culture. Unless we find that burning people at the stake reduces global warming.

Nobody, as in not a single frickin' one, is into space exploration and astronomy because they are under the illusion that they will find all the answers. Nobody is running around out in space with the ultimate goal of proving that there is no god. Nobody is building devices to shoot out into space to puncture holes in your grand little illusions. We all have better things to do (if you don't include hobbies, like participation in this web site.)

It would be wise for you to avoid taking your mentality (worship-based god stuff) and extroplate it to show that all people, even those who disagree with you, worship something. We don't. We've found that appreciation, discovery, usefulness and rationality will carry us further and go much further. Such things are consistent with our real goal: preventing ignorance.

You don't like rockets and telescopes? Fine. Just make sure you're doing it for the right reasons, not the ones you've made up. Even though that is the modus operandi of all believers.

Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Online wright

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #130 on: June 30, 2013, 12:03:32 PM »
There is nothing out there better than what we have here. 

In all fairness this is demonstrably true, at least within the solar system. Earth life has been optimized by evolution to suit Earth's particular conditions.

It's the religion of space exploration.  The worship of the cosmos.  Havng faith that all
our answers are out there.  Faith that out there is wealth, and peace, and health.
That space has the answer to our origins, the answer to life.   Out there is our salvation.

Please show me an example of what you consider people "worshiping" the cosmos. Because I think your definition of "worship" is different from mine.

No one on this thread has suggested that space exploration will solve all our problems and answer all our questions. I and some others have pointed out errors in your assumptions, and shown that your characterization of space research / exploration as an expensive, wasteful endeavor that returns nothing useful is inaccurate.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Online nogodsforme

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #131 on: June 30, 2013, 02:35:37 PM »

I'm not sure if angels are material or spirit.  I've not studied that at all.

Then why do you believe in them?

And what exactly would you "study" to find out if angels were material or spirit. Since there is no evidence that any angels exist to "study". By "study" do you mean pointless guessing and speculation?

I suggest that we also "study" whether unicorns are invisible or not. How about "studying" whether or not Vulcans actually have copper-based green blood? Or "studying" which brand of deodorant Bigfoot prefers to use? (I would say Axe.)
 &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Online wheels5894

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #132 on: June 30, 2013, 03:07:28 PM »

I'm not sure if angels are material or spirit.  I've not studied that at all.

Then why do you believe in them?

And what exactly would you "study" to find out if angels were material or spirit. Since there is no evidence that any angels exist to "study". By "study" do you mean pointless guessing and speculation?

I suggest that we also "study" whether unicorns are invisible or not. How about "studying" whether or not Vulcans actually have copper-based green blood? Or "studying" which brand of deodorant Bigfoot prefers to use? (I would say Axe.)
 &)

I think this is more about studying texts that talk about angels - the sort of thing that marks out a biblical scholar. Medieval biblical scholars debated how many angels could fit on the head of a pin so you can see what a serious business this scholarship really is!
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Online nogodsforme

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #133 on: June 30, 2013, 03:20:31 PM »
Those medieval scholars also thought there were women powerful enough to cast spells that told the future, turned people into animals and caused crop failures--but who never managed to figure out when the mob was coming to burn them at the stake.  &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Samothec

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #134 on: July 02, 2013, 03:51:15 AM »
Those medieval scholars also thought there were women powerful enough to cast spells that told the future, turned people into animals and caused crop failures--but who never managed to figure out when the mob was coming to burn them at the stake.  &)
(Looks around to make sure no one else is listening.) Shhhh! Someone might think you know too much about witches and work out that you are one of those magically powerful women who realized the mob was coming and escaped. And then lived for centuries and now is encouraging atheism so people won't ever think to look for witches again.   :o
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #135 on: July 02, 2013, 04:28:33 AM »
Watch an episode or two of "Ancient Aliens". Given how little you know and understand reality you'll believe in no time.

Those are re-runs.  It was "Chariots of the Gods" in past years.
 I went through that phase soon after high school.

Interesting.  So what made you change your beliefs?  Did new evidence come to light? 
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Online jdawg70

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #136 on: July 02, 2013, 11:03:52 AM »
Wouldn't 'god' and entities like 'angels' qualify as 'other forms of life' anyhow?
I'm not sure if angels are material or spirit.  I've not studied that at all.
How about:

"I'm not sure if angels are material, spirit, or even exist.  I'm not even sure how to define 'spirit' in this context.  I've not studied that at all."
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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Online nogodsforme

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #137 on: July 02, 2013, 03:03:03 PM »
Those medieval scholars also thought there were women powerful enough to cast spells that told the future, turned people into animals and caused crop failures--but who never managed to figure out when the mob was coming to burn them at the stake.  &)
(Looks around to make sure no one else is listening.) Shhhh! Someone might think you know too much about witches and work out that you are one of those magically powerful women who realized the mob was coming and escaped. And then lived for centuries and now is encouraging atheism so people won't ever think to look for witches again.   :o

That has to be it. ;)

Didn't it ever occur to the witch-hunters that they would never be able to capture a really powerful, dangerous witch who was in league with Satan? She would turn them into toads for just thinking about burning her at the stake. 
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline alexreflex

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #138 on: July 02, 2013, 10:15:50 PM »
Didn't it ever occur to the witch-hunters that they would never be able to capture a really powerful, dangerous witch who was in league with Satan?
not really surprising since members of the same group like to beat up homosexuals and/or abuse women, two groups who are not generally known to be aggressive, strong, or able to successfully defend themselves.  powerful witches  would be too dangerous, you know, same as the inhabitants of the valley that possessed iron chariots.
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Offline SkyWriting

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #139 on: July 03, 2013, 08:59:46 AM »
Wouldn't 'god' and entities like 'angels' qualify as 'other forms of life' anyhow?
I'm not sure if angels are material or spirit.  I've not studied that at all.
How about:

"I'm not sure if angels are material, spirit, or even exist.  I'm not even sure how to define 'spirit' in this context.  I've not studied that at all."

I don't know if "Mark Twain" exists, yet I can still research the subject and draw conclusions about "Mark Twain" either way. 

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #140 on: July 03, 2013, 09:04:21 AM »
Didn't it ever occur to the witch-hunters that they would never be able to capture a really powerful, dangerous witch who was in league with Satan?
not really surprising since members of the same group like to beat up homosexuals and/or abuse women, two groups who are not generally known to be aggressive, strong, or able to successfully defend themselves.  powerful witches  would be too dangerous, you know, same as the inhabitants of the valley that possessed iron chariots.

The theory is that witches were lesbians living separate from society.   Some were into herbal potions they mixed up in their "lairs" in the woods.  And there is more theory about broom sticks as well.

Online wheels5894

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #141 on: July 03, 2013, 09:06:00 AM »
Wouldn't 'god' and entities like 'angels' qualify as 'other forms of life' anyhow?
I'm not sure if angels are material or spirit.  I've not studied that at all.
How about:

"I'm not sure if angels are material, spirit, or even exist.  I'm not even sure how to define 'spirit' in this context.  I've not studied that at all."

I don't know if "Mark Twain" exists, yet I can still research the subject and draw conclusions about "Mark Twain" either way.

Any human in history we can research is in a different category from angels and spirits. We know about people - we are people and live with people - so this is only an extension of our knowledge of people back into history.

By contrast, anything supernatural like angels and spirits are not common knowledge in the way of people seeing and knowing them. Sure,a holy book talks about them but that's it. To have anything to say about anything supernatural we nee to establish if there is even and supernatural realm - something psychic research has failed to do for 100 years.
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #142 on: July 03, 2013, 09:06:56 AM »
Didn't it ever occur to the witch-hunters that they would never be able to capture a really powerful, dangerous witch who was in league with Satan?
not really surprising since members of the same group like to beat up homosexuals and/or abuse women, two groups who are not generally known to be aggressive, strong, or able to successfully defend themselves.  powerful witches  would be too dangerous, you know, same as the inhabitants of the valley that possessed iron chariots.

The theory is that witches were lesbians living separate from society.   Some were into herbal potions they mixed up in their "lairs" in the woods.  And there is more theory about broom sticks as well.

I've not seen these ideas. Can you cite your sources for them please so I can go and read up. Thanks
No testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such that its falshood would be more miraculous than the facts it endeavours to establish. (David Hume)

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #143 on: July 03, 2013, 09:09:04 AM »
Watch an episode or two of "Ancient Aliens". Given how little you know and understand reality you'll believe in no time.

Those are re-runs.  It was "Chariots of the Gods" in past years.
 I went through that phase soon after high school.

Interesting.  So what made you change your beliefs?  Did new evidence come to light?

It was mostly a practical matter.  All scholarly estimates how common life in in the Cosmos suggest
that two sources do not have the time to ever cross paths.
 

Online jdawg70

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Re: I don't get YEC.
« Reply #144 on: July 03, 2013, 09:31:21 AM »
The theory is that witches were lesbians living separate from society.   Some were into herbal potions they mixed up in their "lairs" in the woods.  And there is more theory about broom sticks as well.

I've not seen these ideas. Can you cite your sources for them please so I can go and read up. Thanks
I've got some sources I could cite for this, but they're all pretty much NSFW videos found on...esoteric...websites...
Some of these sources also indicate that cheerleaders and librarians also have interesting hobbies.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."

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http://deepaksducttape.wordpress.com/