Poll

What existed before the big bang?

Nothing
4 (8%)
God(s)
2 (4%)
Something Unknown
9 (18%)
I don't know
31 (62%)
Other
4 (8%)

Total Members Voted: 50

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Offline Kimberly

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What existed before the big bang?
« on: June 30, 2012, 08:18:11 PM »
I'm curious as to what the general consensus of this forum is about our existence and why you feel the way you do. So, please, by all means enlighten us all with your opinion.

What existed before the big bang? What makes you believe this, and/or how did you come to this conclusion.

Thank you for your time.
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline Death over Life

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2012, 08:25:44 PM »
I say nothing. Time does not matter, by the end of the night, when you get down to the point, whether it's a universe or multiverse or whatever, you will get to a point where there was either something or nothing, and I choose nothing.

An alternate approach is that there is no "before" the big bang. Existence began with the big bang, so the answer is again, nothing.

Offline HAL

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2012, 08:28:06 PM »
I answered "other" because it's been theorized that membranes larger than our universe might collide to form universes such as ours.


Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2012, 08:43:46 PM »
I don't know.


But there isn't a box for that, so I didn't vote.

Offline Kimberly

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2012, 08:44:36 PM »
I actually just added that Gnu. Thanks for mentioning it, you are free to vote now.
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline Brakeman

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2012, 08:47:50 PM »
Space-time-gravity began at the continuum before the big bang. Time had a beginning and there was no time before this beginning. There was no time for anything to happen before time.
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2012, 08:48:48 PM »
I think[1] there's a 3rd option. In one hand we have something. In the other hand we have nothing. Perhaps my tiny brain just isn't equipped to imagine the two so it creates a 3rd option? But it just seems like 500 years from now[2] they will look back at our literature and laugh. Like we do those who thought the world was flat, silly humans.
 1. I say that loosely because ultimately I don't know, hence why I asked.
 2. Assuming our species survives that long, I feel like global warming is trying to rid the world of the southern states right now!
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline Kimberly

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2012, 08:49:48 PM »
Space-time-gravity began at the continuum before the big bang. Time had a beginning and there was no time before this beginning. There was no time for anything to happen before time.

But time itself is relative, no? So we wouldn't need time for something else to exist before time?
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2012, 08:53:23 PM »
I selected "other" because I think the pancake theory might have some relevance.
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Offline rickymooston

Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2012, 08:54:14 PM »
Well, i think mattter must have existed in some form or other. An infinite cyclic process must be happening

The fact that our time makes no sense does ot mean another time didnt exist.
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2012, 08:57:19 PM »
In other words...what else is there? I believe the universe is eternal.

It may or may not collapse upon itself but no matter what, everything that is has always been and will always be.

That includes us.
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Offline shnozzola

Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2012, 09:21:55 PM »
I chose I don't know.  I think maybe big bangs happen over and over.  Our’s happened 14 billion years ago.   Maybe  many of the galaxies start with their own big bang.  The concept of infinite universe and infinite time is what throws us.  These 3 videos are long, but really great, all posted many times by folks here that I have learned from.  I especially like the last minute or so of the Steven Weinberg video at the bottom.





One very cool aside here - remember a few years ago when they trained the hubble on a black, dimed sized spot in space for a few days - they estimated over 10,000 galaxies in that 1 spot.  Let's get small. :D
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 09:38:58 PM by shnozzola »
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2012, 09:42:11 PM »
Thanks, I will watch those when I have more time.
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline Astreja

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2012, 10:05:44 PM »
I don't know if we'll ever figure out what it was, but I think it could have been something as simple as a difference in potential energy that started a quantum chain reaction.
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Offline Truth OT

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2012, 10:33:08 PM »
Being that I doubt that there has ever been a point where there was an absence of anything (a true nothing point), I must say that an undefeatable or some undefeatable somethings were a part of the pre-big bang reality.


Is there even a such thing as true nothingness?

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2012, 12:06:24 AM »
We don't know, but I imagine that believing the universe as a whole first came into being 13 billion years ago isn't much different from thinking the earth was created 6,000 years ago, as limiting thoughts go. The math of such things seems to indicate all sorts of possible alternatives, such as multiple universes and universes being born inside of black holes and such. As Laurence Kraus says, there really can't be "nothing", because that is an unnatural state. And since infinity goes both ways, presumably one form of existence or another has always existed. We don't need no frickin' gods.

We may not live long enough to know the answer to this question. We as a species are committing suicide in so many ways at the same time that we will cheat ourselves out of lots of knowledge. Our true origins included. But if that is what we end up doing, we don't really deserve an answer anyway.

Being able to ask a question like this is one of the things that makes being human worth the effort. Being religious and not wanting (i.e., fearing) an answer is one of the things that ruins the experience.

I, for one, plan to die curious. In the time I have left, whatever that is, more ideas will pour our of science about the origins of physical reality. Each one will be kind of cool. And many will be wrong, or at least not right enough to count. But wrong in science beats the crap out of thinking that religion is right. Because even if you're wrong, at least you've actually thought about the questions.
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Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2012, 05:17:15 AM »
Space-time-gravity began at the continuum before the big bang. Time had a beginning and there was no time before this beginning. There was no time for anything to happen before time.


Then that means the universe couldn't come into existence. You can't have time if there isn't time.  What you are saying implies a eternal stand still. Thus requiring a creator to set the clock  in motion

Offline joebbowers

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2012, 05:29:26 AM »
I think before the last big bang there was another one, and another and another, in an endless cycle of explosion, expansion, contraction, explosion...
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Offline Emily

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2012, 05:38:46 AM »
Then that means the universe couldn't come into existence. You can't have time if there isn't time.  What you are saying implies a eternal stand still. Thus requiring a creator to set the clock  in motion

The problem with this line of thinking is that it's a double-edged sword. If, as you put it, time needs a creator and thus god is the creator then, and that if everything in existence needs a creator, then what created god. It's a pretty common question asked: If god is eternal, then what created god?

But one question everyone ignores is what makes god so much more special that he doesn't need a creator, and just 'always was'. God living in the supernatural world, someplace in the sky beyond our ability to measure in this life, gets an easy way out with the answer that he always existed. But why does he always get an easy way out. No one can account for 'god's creation', but just reply that he has always existed.

If space-time-gravity began at the beginning of the big bang, then what created it? Perhaps the singularity that is said to have existed that expanded into our present day universe. Cosmology and the fine folks at NASA and at CERN have done a great job in researching the earliest stages of our universe and are currently working on getting beyond the planck epoch - to the very beginning of the universes' expansion, and to which it will show how the universe could have expanded. to create space-time-gravity.

Another argument is 'How can a universe come from nothing'. Lawrence Krauss have given a lecture about how it is possible for such a thing to happen. Here's the video:



So far there is no need for a creator to create the universe. There is no force needed other than science to set the clock in motion. Saying so opens up a giant can of worms for creationists (whether young earthers, old earthers, day-gappers, etc) to account for the creation of their own personal reason to whom they hold accountable for the creation of this universe.

Then again, why the double standard? Why does god get an easy way out of 'always existing', but that what predates space-time-gravity, doesn't?

-Em

I think before the last big bang there was another one, and another and another, in an endless cycle of explosion, expansion, contraction, explosion...

Which is a possibility: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_model
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Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2012, 06:22:35 AM »
Then that means the universe couldn't come into existence. You can't have time if there isn't time.  What you are saying implies a eternal stand still. Thus requiring a creator to set the clock  in motion

The problem with this line of thinking is that it's a double-edged sword. If, as you put it, time needs a creator and thus god is the creator then, and that if everything in existence needs a creator, then what created god. It's a pretty common question asked: If god is eternal, then what created god?

But one question everyone ignores is what makes god so much more special that he doesn't need a creator, and just 'always was'. God living in the supernatural world, someplace in the sky beyond our ability to measure in this life, gets an easy way out with the answer that he always existed. But why does he always get an easy way out. No one can account for 'god's creation', but just reply that he has always existed.

If space-time-gravity began at the beginning of the big bang, then what created it? Perhaps the singularity that is said to have existed that expanded into our present day universe. Cosmology and the fine folks at NASA and at CERN have done a great job in researching the earliest stages of our universe and are currently working on getting beyond the planck epoch - to the very beginning of the universes' expansion, and to which it will show how the universe could have expanded. to create space-time-gravity.

Another argument is 'How can a universe come from nothing'. Lawrence Krauss have given a lecture about how it is possible for such a thing to happen. Here's the video:



So far there is no need for a creator to create the universe. There is no force needed other than science to set the clock in motion. Saying so opens up a giant can of worms for creationists (whether young earthers, old earthers, day-gappers, etc) to account for the creation of their own personal reason to whom they hold accountable for the creation of this universe.

Then again, why the double standard? Why does god get an easy way out of 'always existing', but that what predates space-time-gravity, doesn't?

-Em

I think before the last big bang there was another one, and another and another, in an endless cycle of explosion, expansion, contraction, explosion...

Which is a possibility: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_model


I don't buy into the BS by Krauss, nor should you be claiming any of it as plausible.  Its untestable theories  backed by pseudo-science.  Its interesting,but all it is right now is science-fiction.


Offline One Above All

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #20 on: July 01, 2012, 06:27:13 AM »
I don't buy into the BS by Krauss, nor should you be claiming any of it as plausible.  Its untestable theories  backed by pseudo-science.  Its interesting,but all it is right now is science-fiction.

And your opinion is important... why? Are you a theoretical physicist? Have you even studied physics?
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Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #21 on: July 01, 2012, 06:34:09 AM »
I don't buy into the BS by Krauss, nor should you be claiming any of it as plausible.  Its untestable theories  backed by pseudo-science.  Its interesting,but all it is right now is science-fiction.

And your opinion is important... why? Are you a theoretical physicist? Have you even studied physics?

Nope. But that doesn't eliminate the fact that its untestable theories. So my point stands.

Offline Emily

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #22 on: July 01, 2012, 06:36:23 AM »
I don't buy into the BS by Krauss, nor should you be claiming any of it as plausible.  Its untestable theories  backed by pseudo-science.  Its interesting,but all it is right now is science-fiction.

and a god according to the book of the bible ins't psuedo-science? Do you have anything to claim your bible's theories regarding the creation of the universe are more plausible?


Nope. But that doesn't eliminate the fact that its untestable theories. So my point stands.

Your point doesn't stand. Do you have anything regarding the 'pseudo-science' Krauss discusses that his theories are bullshit?
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Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2012, 06:41:21 AM »
I don't buy into the BS by Krauss, nor should you be claiming any of it as plausible.  Its untestable theories  backed by pseudo-science.  Its interesting,but all it is right now is science-fiction.

and a god according to the book of the bible ins't psuedo-science? Do you have anything to claim your bible's theories regarding the creation of the universe are more plausible?




What does God or the bible have to do with this discussion :o


Nope. But that doesn't eliminate the fact that its untestable theories. So my point stands.

Your point doesn't stand. Do you have anything regarding the 'pseudo-science' Krauss discusses that his theories are bullshit?



He hasn't proved "nothing is something.  His theories are untestable. Thus making them unfalsifiable. Krauss theories makes the existence of  God fair play . Something you will refuse to acknowledge.

Offline One Above All

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2012, 06:42:17 AM »
He hasn't proved "nothing is something.

Who the hell said that? Do you even understand his proposal?
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Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2012, 06:48:12 AM »
He hasn't proved "nothing is something.

Who the hell said that? Do you even understand his proposal?

Let me clarify. That things pop into existence from nothingness.

Offline One Above All

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2012, 06:49:26 AM »
Let me clarify. That things pop into existence from nothingness.

Virtual particleWiki.
Next problem with his theory?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2012, 07:09:21 AM »
Let me clarify. That things pop into existence from nothingness.

Virtual particleWiki.
Next problem with his theory?


That does not mean they are coming from nothing. 

Offline One Above All

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Re: What existed before the big bang?
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2012, 07:11:34 AM »
That does not mean they are coming from nothing. 

Particles that appear in the empty space between atoms aren't coming from nothing? What kind of logic is that?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.