Mom "saves" 15 year old son from becoming Legendary Awesomeness

[lotanddaughters]

I say, if you round up all the people in the world, from those who have reached puberty on up, you will find that males, on average, want to have sex with females more than females want to have sex with them. Do you agree?

You misunderstand me. When I speak of "boys" and "men", I speak in psychological terms. This is not an age issue. At least not physical age. To me, the fact that you see sex the way that you do screams emotional immaturity.

EDIT: You know, this discussion is going to end in one of two ways:
#1: We disagree and we both walk away, heads held high.
#2: We disagree and someone ends up pissed off.

I'd much rather we end it with #1, so what do you say we agree to disagree? Unless you have statistics that show my "males" claim[1] is erroneous, the rest simply cannot be wrong, by its very definition.

EDIT #2: And no, this is not a cop-out. It is an offer. If you wish to keep debating, I'm OK with that too.

1.	Which doesn't revolve around psychology.

However you define "boys" and "men", take all of "them" from puberty on up. Do you agree with my claim?

[Timtheskeptic]

Let's get to the bottom of this. Point for point. Do you agree that guys, on average, want to have sex with girls more than girls want to have sex with them?

No, i do not. I don't know any men who are so hell bent on chasing after women to score some "ta tas"as some calls it. I as a bisexual man don't go chasing anyone for some one night stand. As for me giving Joe minus darwin, it was reasonable, sorry you think i was... no, i'm not sorry. Also, everyone is different, every man is different. I've seen a lot of guys who are respectful, try to work their share in life, look for dates with honesty and respect, and are far more mature than you or Joey. Also, this applies to women as well. We're all different, no two man are the same. So, no i don't agree.

[jaimehlers]

Wow.  Reading the discussion that happened yesterday, I'm amazed and a little annoyed at the way lotanddaughters came out swinging.  Especially since he seems bound and determined now to try to "prove" how "illogical" OAA and others who think like him are.  Before he gets too far up on that high horse of his, I'd like to point out that when you're criticizing someone else's logic, it behooves you to avoid doing so with logical fallacies.  Such as, I dunno, personal attacks?  It doesn't say much when your second post in this thread includes the blanket insult of "backward fucking freaks", especially when you declare later on that you're going to bring a logical "beat down" on all the "idiots" who think like OAA.

By the way, I do need to point out that by any reasonable moral standard, sexual arousal is not morally equivalent to hunger.  People do not waste away and die if they ignore the feeling of sexual arousal, whereas people will starve to death if they ignore hunger long enough.  It's kind of hard to equate the one with the other.  The fact that you made such a statement and yet declare that others are being illogical is odd, to say the least.

In short, take a step back and lose the attitude if you want to debate OAA.  Or anyone else, for that matter.  The only things you're accomplishing with the attitude are to annoy other people and to handicap your own efforts at convincing others that you're correct.

[One Above All]

However you define "boys" and "men", take all of "them" from puberty on up. Do you agree with my claim?

Boys, yes. Men, no. What did I say in my edit #1 of my previous post? Men do not want to have sex more often than women. That's one of the things that separates them from the boys. My definitions are based on psychology and not physiology, and as such, they cannot be wrong.

EDIT: If you want evidence, you need only to look at my karma history in this thread. You and HAL are the only ones who gave me -1's. I received four +1's in this thread and two (IIRC) -1's. You'd think that men would know their gender, and that women would know the gender they're dating, right? Hell, Timtheskeptic is bisexual (so am I, by the way), so he has both of those working for him.

If you want to challenge my assertions, the only one you can challenge is the "males" one. So get some evidence and challenge it, accept that I'm right, or take my offer and agree to disagree.

[Azdgari]

Centuries of cultural conditioning toward women saying they should not enjoy sex might have something to do with the apparently greater liking of sex by males in some circles.

[joebbowers]

"might"? It absolutely does. Very good point though. Combine that with the fact that men have about 7 times the level of testosterone that women do (the hormone that regulates sex drive).

[HAL]

Men do not want to have sex more often than women.

Well basically you're dead wrong.

There's three pages of information on WebMD but this summarizes it well enough -

"Men want sex more often than women at the start of a relationship, in the middle of it, and after many years of it," Baumeister concludes after reviewing several surveys of men and women. This isn't just true of heterosexuals, he reports: gay men also have higher frequency of sex than lesbians at all stages of the relationship. Men also say they want more sex partners in their lifetime, and are more interested in casual sex.

http://www.webmd.com/sex/features/sex-drive-how-do-men-women-compare

Edit: That's why I said you are a very naive person regarding this claim.

[jaimehlers]

There is a strong biological drive in human males to have sex.  Men also don't have to deal with most of the potential aftereffects of having sex (STDs being a notable exception).  So it's not surprising that many men might desire sex more.  However, cultural conditioning plays a huge part in that.  I don't think that the increased levels of testosterone play nearly as large of a part in things.  If you had a culture where everyone (rather than just women) were systematically discouraged from having sex, I suspect that the numbers of men vs women who desired sex would be much closer to even, and the same with a culture where sex was freely encouraged in both sexes (especially if, say, you had reliable birth control).

As examples of just how pervasive the cultural conditioning against women having sex is, even in modern-day culture, consider the following:

• Despite the increased sex drive of men, women are largely blamed for having sex outside of marriage bonds.  Specifically, if it's a married man and an unmarried woman, the "other woman" is considered a temptress.  If it's an unmarried man and a married woman, the woman is licentious.  I don't know how it works out when it's a married man and a married woman, not married to each other, but I suspect it's similar.
• Foreign women almost always have the stereotype of being "loose" and wild.  The only time when this isn't true is when you have someone who's educated or experienced enough to know otherwise.
• Birth control mechanisms very specifically focus on methods women can use to keep themselves from becoming pregnant.  Off the top of my head, the only one that's ever been designed for men to use is the condom.
• If a woman (or an adolescent girl) is raped, the impulse is to find some way to blame her for it.  Such as, "she was dressed provocatively", "she was in the wrong part of town", or the all-time favorite "she was asking for it".
• Women with increased sex drives are considered to be whores or sluts, to the point where I suspect that women tend to suppress their sex drives to avoid the stigma of such a title.

[none]

I chuckle when men pontificate about women.
I can only say women spend hours "getting" ready... and for what? and why?

[screwtape]

whores or sluts

I've ceased to consider these two words as pejoratives.  I no longer call politicians who do anything for a dollar, "whores".  It is insulting to whores who work very hard to provide a much needed service. 

I also consider the term "cocksucker" to be a positive epithet. 

If I were xian, I would say "god bless whores, sluts and cocksuckers, for they do the Lord's work". 

[orpat]

whores or sluts

I've ceased to consider these two words as pejoratives.  I no longer call politicians who do anything for a dollar, "whores".  It is insulting to whores who work very hard to provide a much needed service. 

I also consider the term "cocksucker" to be a positive epithet. 

If I were xian, I would say "god bless whores, sluts and cocksuckers, for they do the Lord's work".

I am ashamed to admit that at one time, I too used to believe that  women who were prostitutes,whores, sluts were least deserving of respect and I despised them. As my knowledge grew, I realized they were "real" people, working hard to earn a living. They are humans who need to earn to live, and if the earning is by providing a service like "safe sex" , I see no harm in it.

Edit : Could it be a good idea to replace the terms whore, slut, prostitute with sex trader?

[HAL]

Where did One Above All run off too?

Normally he's constantly logged on. He sure got awfully quiet after I posted evidence he is wrong. 

[none]

Where did One Above All run off too?

Normally he's constantly logged on. He sure got awfully quiet after I posted evidence he is wrong. 

the evidence is biased.
men talking about women in stringent terms.
I counter that webMD evidence by saying women express sexuality different than an erection.
but that is just me.
are you going to argue that  when women do things it is a ritual that lasts until the erection gets satisfied?

[HAL]

I counter that webMD evidence by saying ...

Pfffft. You don't have the credentials to counter it. The credentials you have are none. 

[none]

sorry I kissed your ass at one time.

[HAL]

This is getting tiring, there's so much out there to show men want more sex than women.

Men and women are DIFFERENT.
Not better or worse, just different.

...

By Nature men are made to seek as much sex as they can get, so they can spread their seed wider.

By Nature women are made to seek as many admirers as they can get, so they can make a better choice and get the best seed.

Men seek quantity - women seek quality.

This is why men seek sex and women seek love.

http://www.sosuave.com/articles/why.htm

"Shocking" Study: Men Want Sex More Often Than Women

But, as it turns out (surprise, surprise) ... studies indicate that men want sex more than women do, as sociologist Mark Regnerus notes in a new article for Slate. He writes that social psychologists Roy Baumeister and Kathleen Vohs and others "have repeatedly shown, on average, men want sex more than women do. Call it sexist, call it whatever you want — the evidence shows it's true."

Read more: Study on Men Wanting More Sex Than Women - Proof Men Want More Casual Sex - Marie Claire

[none]

like I said if sex is related to the erection then yeah men are the more sexual counterpart.
if sex is not masculine then I would say that women fair equally if not more so.
so you can take all those studies that pivot sex around the penis and throw them away.
why does a woman clean her twat?

[HAL]

so you can take all those studies that pivot sex around the penis and throw them away.

The truth hurts doesn't it. 

[Kimberly]

How did we get to discussing why how much sex someone desires? Does it really matter, in regards to this topic, how high someone's sex drive is? Every man/woman has their own sex drive that is determined by various factors and generally speaking it's safe to assume men have a higher sex drive. But WTF does that have to do with some women trying to have sex with a 15 YO? I must have missed how that was relevant.

Edited: forgot two words

[none]

so you can take all those studies that pivot sex around the penis and throw them away.

The truth hurts doesn't it. 

well if sex is limited to the penis I guess lesbians don't have sex.
hahaha

[HAL]

How did we get to discussing why how much sex someone desires?

I don't know, but I had to respond since The One called out my name and posted this -

Men do not want to have sex more often than women.

I had to show him he was dead wrong. I don't know where he's run off too.

[Kimberly]

I really don't like making generalized statements about an entire sect of people. To say men or women have a higher or lower sex drive excludes a large population of those who are the exception to the rule.

I can't speak for OAA but I think he is trying to make a differentiation  in the types of men who allow their sex drive to objectivity women. I think he more or less attempting to discuss the difference in sexual and emotional maturity. I could be wrong, but that's how I understood it by reading the thread as it progressed.

[jaimehlers]

I've ceased to consider these two words as pejoratives.  I no longer call politicians who do anything for a dollar, "whores".  It is insulting to whores who work very hard to provide a much needed service. 

I also consider the term "cocksucker" to be a positive epithet. 

If I were xian, I would say "god bless whores, sluts and cocksuckers, for they do the Lord's work".

I don't use those terms, personally.  "Slut" is a double standard, and "whore" is kind of silly, given that prostitution is, if not the oldest, then certainly among the oldest of all professions.

Plus, as you said, comparing prostitutes to politicians is an insult to the former.

[One Above All]

I can't speak for OAA but I think he is trying to make a differentiation  in the types of men who allow their sex drive to objectivity women. I think he more or less attempting to discuss the difference in sexual and emotional maturity. I could be wrong, but that's how I understood it by reading the thread as it progressed.

You are correct, Kimberly.

[Seppuku]

Yes, generalisations are an issue. Statistically speaking there may be more men with a high sex drive than women, but to say men have a higher sex drive than women is a different statement, the former suggests that as a man I should have a higher sex drive than a woman, but the latter suggests that more men have higher sex drives than women. There could be plenty of extremely horny women and plenty of men who enjoy sex, but have a very low sex drive.

I suppose it's semantics really, but still I think the distinction is important for the sake of clarity.

The problem with human psychology is that you can't generalise. One of the problems with psychological studies is that you might find things stack in your favour statistically, but on a more individual level, your answers might not even be applicable. Many do try and universalise psychological studies (generally people who aren't psychologists), but individual differences tend to be the reason why there's never a one shoe fits all approach to psychology. This is kind of the reason why when using a psychological theory in the 'should parents hit their kids' discussion I didn't have much of a leg to stand on, whilst the psychological theories had a lot of support for me original argument, but it was nothing that could really be universalised, which is why when faced with additional data I changed my stance as I saw it to be more substantial, though with the findings of both studies are not wrong, it just means they apply to different groups. I see it as being the case here.

The human brain is highly complex and highly variated. It'd be a very boring existence if it weren't.

And of course, if you horny devils like your one-night stands and having a sex driven relationship, you're welcome to it, it doesn't make you 'bad' people nor does it make you lesser. Heck, you sexy beasts might be in the majority. But hey, its your lives, so shag to your penis' desire if you must. And I'll sit here writing bad poetry and using the moon in lame metaphors to tell HAL how I would turn gay for him.

I wonder, what's a good rhyme for Lark? Not, Tony Stark, because I'm a one-man straight guy.

[edit]

I'd be interested in knowing how much of our 'sexuality' or lack of is influenced by culture, society and even the media, does the representation of sex given to us affect our attitudes towards it, or does it even affect our sexual drive to a degree?

[lotanddaughters]

How did we get to discussing why how much sex someone desires? Does it really matter, in regards to this topic, how high someone's sex drive is? Every man/woman has their own sex drive that is determined by various factors and generally speaking it's safe to assume men have a higher sex drive. But WTF does that have to do with some women trying to have sex with a 15 YO? I must have missed how that was relevant.

Edited: forgot two words

It's relevant because some of us in this thread know that there are many male humans around the world that would be jealous of the 15 year old if they heard about this story.

Why would any women be jealous of the 24 year old? The 24 year old women of the world could go out and get a 15 year old boy any time they want . . . I repeat . . . any   time   they   want.

[Timtheskeptic]

How did we get to discussing why how much sex someone desires? Does it really matter, in regards to this topic, how high someone's sex drive is? Every man/woman has their own sex drive that is determined by various factors and generally speaking it's safe to assume men have a higher sex drive. But WTF does that have to do with some women trying to have sex with a 15 YO? I must have missed how that was relevant.

Edited: forgot two words

It's relevant because some of us in this thread know that there are many male humans around the world that would be jealous of the 15 year old if they heard about this story.

Why would any women be jealous of the 24 year old? The 24 year old women of the world could go out and get a 15 year old boy any time they want . . . I repeat . . . any   time   they   want.

So i should be jealous of a 15 year old boy who was being taken advantage of? I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. Yes there may be a large amount of men who are bleedin' horn dogs, but don't put all men in one basket and don't assume you know women's mind and sex drive.

I never had any. Yeah, that's right, a 30 year old virgin! Oh wow, i can year a bunch of jeering and name calling already for this, but what choice do i have? I don't know about you, but i don't feel jealous of little teenage boys. I don't have the urge to hump women or men because i felt horny. Also, i hadn't seen any men going, "ZOMG, we're so horny, we rather go home and bang some girls whether they want it or not!" The point is, not everyone thinks the same or has the same sex drive.

[HAL]

I can't speak for OAA but I think he is trying to make a differentiation  in the types of men who allow their sex drive to objectivity women. I think he more or less attempting to discuss the difference in sexual and emotional maturity. I could be wrong, but that's how I understood it by reading the thread as it progressed.

Well here's his statement -

Men do not want to have sex more often than women.

What he said is pretty cut and dried. I went looking for evidence one way or the other and found out he's simply wrong.

I'm not a politician, so I suppose a person could spin what he said to make it sound like he was right, but it seems pretty plain to me - and dead wrong. I don't know why he's making that claim since it's easy to find tons of info on it.

[Kimberly]

HAL

If I have an hour long conversation and someone walks in to it at the 45 min mark is it safe to assume they will be able to discuss what I said up to the 45 min mark with any clarity? Or is it better to listen to the entire 45 min conversation before cherry picking out one sentence that taken out of context of the entire conversation sounds worse then it's intent?

IDK about you HAL but I'd rather read the whole book than just the last page before making my judgement on the book. 

Besides he clarified his point when he responded in reply # 110. While his response might not have satisfied your inquiry I think it's safe to assume you are clinging on this one thing for dear life when there's no more rope left.

My two cents. I'm not trying to speak for OAA, I really don't even want to respond to this. But you directed the message at me so hence my reply. I think if you aren't satisfied with his response you should ask qualifying questions directed at OAA.