reading the bible to kids as a way to combat indoctrination?

[The Gawd]

Greetings WWGHA!! Its been a while, life keeps happening you know. But I had an interesting event this weekend where my 9 year old daughter asked if she could go to some church functions with her fundy granny. Naturally she likes spending time with her granny, but her granny doesnt have time for anything thats not church related... even grand kids.

So I was in a spot, however I told her that I was sure there were other things they could do together. She didnt say anything but I could tell she was visibly upset probably because she knows her granny doesnt do anything else and she doesnt exactly know why I dont want her going to church.

Anyways I decided that instead of putting it off I would read her some of the verses that they dont give her in sunday school, church, and other functions. She literally started crying at the disgusting nature and death filled text, especially at the prospect of killing her mother for working on "the sabbath" and could only be calmed once I reminded her that this was a story just like Thor (she likes super-hero movies).

I'm going to sign up to be a sunday school teacher.

[kin hell]

.....the bible should be R rated 

[kaziglu bey]

Though I haven't read the Bible to my son, I have shared with him some of the claims that the Bible makes, such as the 4 legged insects, bats that are birds, dragons and giants are real, the Earth is set on a foundation, and other things that religious people claim to know based on the Bible, such as that dinosaurs co-existed with people, that the earth is only 6,000 years old, and that certain people have very personal relaltionships, and even conversations with, an almighty, supernatural being. My son, who is 8, found this all highly amusing, in the same way that he finds believers in Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster to be amusing. Given the opportunity to think for themselves, kids realize that religion is bullshit pretty quickly. Granted, he still expresses a belief in Santa, but it's pretty clear that this belief is fast fading given his skeptical nature. After all, one has to admit that Santa is much more plausible than God, regardless of how implausible Santa is. A guy with a magnificent beard who has magical powers one day of the year is more reasonable to believe in that a guy with a magnificent beard who has magical powers eternally.

[bertatberts]

.....the bible should be R rated

And put in the fantasy section of the local library, as I have it situated in my library (small section of shelves) in my office.)  If my kids wish to read it they know were to look, it also imprints on them that it is merely a mythology.

[Death over Life]

.....the bible should be R rated

R... for Retarded.

I don't remember when the last time I picked up my Bible was. The Book is horribly written, so how are people able to read through the thing Genesis to Revelation? Even the majority of Christians will agree with me because they can't even read their own book!

[pianodwarf]

I don't remember when the last time I picked up my Bible was. The Book is horribly written, so how are people able to read through the thing Genesis to Revelation?

It's a tough slog, no question.  I've tried it many times over the years and am only just now finally managing it, due to: 1) having found a relatively readable version (the ESV), and 2) having a Kindle Touch, which makes reading easier in various ways, not the least of which is that it weighs significantly less than pretty much any print version of the bible you're likely to find.

Even the majority of Christians will agree with me because they can't even read their own book!

And on this score, I can't say I blame them, at least not entirely, since, as you say, it's such a terrible book.  On the other hand, I do have to blame them if they say that they attempt to live their lives by the contents of the book -- if you're going to say that, in my opinion, then you have to be familiar with the contents of the book, regardless of how difficult it is to read.

[The Gawd]

.....the bible should be R rated

It needs to be rated something, thats for sure.

And I agree with all the sentiments, the book is a horrific read in any sense that I can muster. Kind of refutes what they always tell you when you point out the many falsehoods, "its a book of history, poetry, blah blah..."  And I couldnt imagine reading it like I would read a Kurt Vonnegut book, or a Hitchens book, or even a text book. I usually use a bible search looking for specific words because I dont have the patience to wade through countless pages of even MORE worthless drivel than I must. However, I know I can always go to Lev and Deut... those two are like old faithful... they never fail.

[rev45]

I don't remember when the last time I picked up my Bible was. The Book is horribly written, so how are people able to read through the thing Genesis to Revelation? Even the majority of Christians will agree with me because they can't even read their own book!

I too, can't remember the last time I actually picked up my Bible to read through it.  But I can assure you that I run out of fingers when I think about how many times, when I was a Christian, that I tried to read it from front to back and failed.  You start out good with Adam and Eve then get bored with some stuff in between, then you hit Noah and after that other things happen and then Moses kicks some ass and then everyone gets lost for a while and complains.  After that I would find myself skipping around not able to keep my eyes from glazing over at all the filler in between the well known stories.  As a teenage boy reading it back then, those horrific battles and slaughters that we find abhorrent now were the most interesting parts of the Bible.

[magicmiles]

.....the bible should be R rated

Life should be R rated.

[lomolo]

I don't remember when the last time I picked up my Bible was. The Book is horribly written, so how are people able to read through the thing Genesis to Revelation? Even the majority of Christians will agree with me because they can't even read their own book!

My parents were worried that I was becoming less of a Christian because they heard me swear with my friends, so they sent me to a Jesus-camp a few summers ago. Besides being bored and kind of depressed the entire time I picked up a piece of advice at the time and decided to use it, and that was to read the entire Bible from cover to cover. It was supposed to strengthen my faith. Pray, Read, Praise, and Worship!

Every night I'd sit down and read at least three 'chapters' of a 'book' (I think that's how it's called) and try to reflect on what it could mean. Every now and then (extremely rarely) I'd find something interesting or useful in the words, but most nights, I'd start falling asleep by the end of some passages. Even when I tried my best to focus on the words I was just bored out of my mind. Which made me feel worse, so I tried to read more, and got even more bored :@

Eventually after like two years I did read it all the way. The Old Testament is just mind-numbingly awful and the New Testament is barely interesting. Revelation was my favorite book because it was the closest thing to being a good read, what with all the bold imagery and cool apocalyptic shit goin' on.

[magicmiles]

Greetings WWGHA!! Its been a while, life keeps happening you know. But I had an interesting event this weekend where my 9 year old daughter asked if she could go to some church functions with her fundy granny. Naturally she likes spending time with her granny, but her granny doesnt have time for anything thats not church related... even grand kids.

So I was in a spot, however I told her that I was sure there were other things they could do together. She didnt say anything but I could tell she was visibly upset probably because she knows her granny doesnt do anything else and she doesnt exactly know why I dont want her going to church.

Anyways I decided that instead of putting it off I would read her some of the verses that they dont give her in sunday school, church, and other functions. She literally started crying at the disgusting nature and death filled text, especially at the prospect of killing her mother for working on "the sabbath" and could only be calmed once I reminded her that this was a story just like Thor (she likes super-hero movies).

I'm going to sign up to be a sunday school teacher.

When it comes to Atheism my brother makes everybody on this forum look like kindly old church organists. He is exremely passionate and loud when it comes to expressing his anti-God message. He has steadfastly refused to ever let my parents take his daughter to church and mocks God and Christianity as a normal part of dinner-time conversation. He has a filthy mouth and doesn't believe in modifying language in front of Kids.

Result? His 12 year old daughter is one of the most moral, conservative kids I have ever met, constantly asks questions about God and is upset that she isn't allowed to go to Sunday School.

Strange thing. And it freaks my brother out completely.

[One Above All]

Kids doing what their parents tell them not to isn't surprising in the least.

[magicmiles]

I should point out that my brother is border line deranged. He is currently trying to gather supporters to assist him with his deadly serious plan to systematically dismantle modern society so we can all live as hunter gatherers.

[magicmiles]

Kids doing what their parents tell them not to isn't surprising in the least.

But kids doing the opposite of what their parents do is unusual.

[One Above All]

But kids doing the opposite of what their parents do is unusual.

Since when? Some kids get the insane idea that they shouldn't be like everyone else, so they do the exact opposite of what everyone else does. If his daughter is forbidden to go to church, she's gonna want to go simply because it's what her dad doesn't do.

[One Above All]

His 12 year old daughter is one of the most moral

FYI, don't think I didn't notice the implication that atheism=immorality.

[magicmiles]

But kids doing the opposite of what their parents do is unusual.

Since when? Some kids get the insane idea that they shouldn't be like everyone else, so they do the exact opposite of what everyone else does. If his daughter is forbidden to go to church, she's gonna want to go simply because it's what her dad doesn't do.

That is true to an extent, but it's more often true that young kids will be little parrots. She has been this way all her young life, completely going against what she is hearing from her dad. If the behaviour had only been evident recently as puberty kicks in, it wouldn't be as unusual.

[magicmiles]

His 12 year old daughter is one of the most moral

FYI, don't think I didn't notice the implication that atheism=immorality.

There was no implication. Simply stating that she has been subjected to the F Bomb and worse all her life but has a ntural aversion to swearing, rude jokes, etc.

[One Above All]

That is true to an extent, but it's more often true that young kids will be little parrots. She has been this way all her young life, completely going against what she is hearing from her dad. If the behaviour had only been evident recently as puberty kicks in, it wouldn't be as unusual.

You should read the "peadophiles" (sic) thread. Puberty is kicking in at a much younger age than ever before. So "all her young life" isn't surprising.

There was no implication.

The general tone of your post was that she was the complete opposite of her atheist dad. There was an implication there, and it wasn't just about the fact that your brother's a dick.

Simply stating that she has been subjected to the F Bomb and worse all her life but has a ntural aversion to swearing, rude jokes, etc.

Give her a few more years. Then we'll talk. I'd get into the fact that there's nothing wrong with swearing, but I have a new game, and I've almost completed the very last stage.

[magicmiles]

Mind you, I grew up never hearing foul language at home and I had one of the foulest mouths in Australia and somestimes still do. Guess I heard a lot of bad language at school, but then again so would my niece.

I'm not really tying to make any point here, just some interesting observations loosely related to the OP.

[Zankuu]

I had this in my signature for quite some time and I think it's relevant to the OP:

          “Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.” - Isaac Asimov

I believe this is true. It certainly opened my eyes. I would encourage every Christian to read his or her Bible, even the indoctrinated children. And I mean actually read and study it, not do what most Christians do and just cherry pick the happy-go-lucky Jesus loves me verses while ignoring the uglier scripture and effectively killing off all intelligent thought by saying "Well, God works in mysterious ways", or "Just trust in the Lord", or "God just knows better than us". In this age of free information exchange where we can discover tidbits of knowledge such as the Bible having its roots connected to the old Sumerian pantheon, then well... the Bible is its own undoing.

[The Wannabe]

My mom currently reads the bible everyday, and has been for years.  She says it's the foundation for all her morals and beliefs.  Yet, when i ask her what lessons she's learned, or what insights she's gleamed from her daily reading, she usually just parrots some drivel from the 700 club.

 I have yet to see a Christian not supplement the bible with some other form of SPAG.  If the bible is the divine word of the living God, then why the need for all the man made apologetic books, television shows, and radio broadcasts?  Heck, why the need for church when you can supposedly commune with the creator of the cosmos anytime you please through prayer?[1]  You would think Christians would want to get their spiritual nourishment closer to the source, no?

1.	Could it be because a group delusion is stronger than a solitary, individual delusion?

[magicmiles]

If the bible is the divine word of the living God, then why the need for all the man made apologetic books, television shows, and radio broadcasts?

Unfortunately, to a large extent, it's purely to make money, and it pisses me off.

I worked for a time at a Christian book wholesaler. Some of the crap we sold was an embarrasment and I was often tempted to ''accidentally" despatch it to the wrong address so it got thrown out.

[Death over Life]

If the bible is the divine word of the living God, then why the need for all the man made apologetic books, television shows, and radio broadcasts?

Unfortunately, to a large extent, it's purely to make money, and it pisses me off.

I worked for a time at a Christian book wholesaler. Some of the crap we sold was an embarrasment and I was often tempted to ''accidentally" despatch it to the wrong address so it got thrown out.

Well, better to be pissed off than pissed on I'd say! 

But on a serious note, how do you differentiate what is crap and what is shit? What are some examples of such?

[The Wannabe]

If the bible is the divine word of the living God, then why the need for all the man made apologetic books, television shows, and radio broadcasts?

Unfortunately, to a large extent, it's purely to make money, and it pisses me off.

I worked for a time at a Christian book wholesaler. Some of the crap we sold was an embarrasment and I was often tempted to ''accidentally" despatch it to the wrong address so it got thrown out.

Glad to see that you acknowledge this.  There are some obscenely wealthy mega churches here in the states.  The disparity between Jesus' new testament teachings and today's consumer Christianity is so ironic it hurts.   

[magicmiles]

But on a serious note, how do you differentiate what is crap and what is shit? What are some examples of such?

Good Christian book: Something that discusses the history of the bible, which discusses cultural and historical context to help Christians better understand the bible.

Bad 'Christian' book: Well, one that made me laugh the most was called 'devotions for dieters', with 365 helpful bible passages and suggestions to encourage the Christian trying to lose weight. Such as "if there is less of me, there will be God in me", and other such vomit-inducing onsense.

Even with the "good' Christian books, chances are it has all be said before by someone better qualified.

[Quesi]

Ah.  Many years ago I was living in Mexico City and took a trip during Semana Santa (Holy Week) to a little piece of paradise on the coast of the state of Guerrero.  It was basically a little strip of sand, with a fresh water rive on one side, and the Pacific ocean on the other.  No running water.  No electricity.  Just little family owned palapas (which are basically thatched roofs with no walls, and sand between your toes) and hammocks hanging between the polls holding up the roof.  The husband went fishing every day, and you ate what he caught.  Mom got eggs and water and ice and tomatoes and onions and chiles and masa for tortillas delivered by boat every day, and cooked them up on a stove fueled with coconut shells.  Oh.  Good, dark Mexican beer got delivered daily too. 

And I spent a week, curled up in a hammock, overlooking the Pacific ocean, reading the OT.  And drinking beer.  And eating fresh caught fish.  And listening to the locals discuss politics and sing songs by lantern light in the evenings.  It was a beautiful week in my life. 

So decades later, when I pick up the bible and open to Deuteronomy or Leviticus, I feel the sway of the hammock and hear the waves of ocean and smell the onions and chiles roasting on the coconut shell fueled stove.   And when I read the tales of war and violence and sex and scandals and power struggles with a manipulative ancient god, and the bizarre social rules and norms, the strangeness of the content is always made a little more surreal by the memories of my holy week on the beach. 

[magicmiles]

There are some obscenely wealthy mega churches here in the states. 

Indeed. I thank God every second day that I don't live in the USA. On the other days I thank Him that the Pacific Ocean is so big.

[Death over Life]

But on a serious note, how do you differentiate what is crap and what is shit? What are some examples of such?

Good Christian book: Something that discusses the history of the bible, which discusses cultural and historical context to help Christians better understand the bible.

Bad 'Christian' book: Well, one that made me laugh the most was called 'devotions for dieters', with 365 helpful bible passages and suggestions to encourage the Christian trying to lose weight. Such as "if there is less of me, there will be God in me", and other such vomit-inducing onsense.

Even with the "good' Christian books, chances are it has all be said before by someone better qualified.

I gotcha. Although I post sarcastically on here more often as I used to, the important thing that I would stress is no matter how much we agree to, do not just simply throw away things. The most important thing in life is freedom, and freedom of speech is within one of them. Unless you are doing theatrics to make a point across in your message at a concert or movie, I disagree with burnings and tossings because to put it bluntly, it is a restriction, and thus a censorship, on freedom of speech. As delusional as it is, I’d rather have the toilet paper be for sale than in a trash bin.

There are some obscenely wealthy mega churches here in the states. 

Indeed. I thank God every second day that I don't live in the USA. On the other days I thank Him that the Pacific Ocean is so big.

And I curse the imaginary god because I not only live in the USA, but in the Bible Belt at that. Although it may sap away my youth, I am thankful that slowly but surely, people are coming to their senses, and I’m seeing that what is strange is that there are a lot of liberal-thinking people even in the Bible Belt, so how are all these places heavily Republican?