Author Topic: Dark Matter and Dark Energy  (Read 4080 times)

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Offline Boots

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Re: Dark Matter and Dark Energy
« Reply #58 on: July 28, 2012, 08:37:52 AM »

you are making this statement based on faith that science is exclusively capable of providing all of the answers to highly critical questions.

Highly critical questions like where life came from?

WHY IS THIS A CRITICAL QUESTION??  In what substantive way does knowing how life originated affect my life today?

What I think isn't germane to what you think.  You brought it up, so please answer.

You don't consider knowing where life came from to be critical in determining how your theist/non-theist beliefs are formed?

GB mod - quotes fixed
« Last Edit: July 28, 2012, 09:25:43 AM by Graybeard »
* Religion: institutionalized superstition, period.

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Offline oogabooga

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Re: Dark Matter and Dark Energy
« Reply #59 on: August 13, 2012, 06:30:47 AM »
I'm a bit late on the respond - I tend not to use the computer much when on vacation. But here goes.

No, because the detective would be basing his/her assessment on something a lot stronger than a hypothetical based on inference. Your analogy uses the type of evidence (ie. a real dead body) that does not exist when discussing dark matter or dark energy. You are far from making an apples-to-apples comparison here. 
So observing an effect/consequence of something is a hypothetical based on inference? Why? Because you say so? It's been explained to you that there is something going on in space that requires another actor in the game that we can't detect yet. It's most definitely apples and apples since a murder with an unknown murderer requires one to thing that there's someone out there who did the deed. There's something out that that's causing the universe to expand faster than visible matter could. There's something very real, tangible and measurable going on and we don't know for sure what's causing it. What's the difference?

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I assume you are referring to your analogy of the murdered body and the detective? If so, again, you are not making a parallel analogy because you are using verifiable and undeniable evidence that does not exist when inferring dark matter or dark energy.
There's extremely verifiable and undeniable evidence that the expansion of the universe can't be explained by visible matter alone. Just because you're not aware of it doesn't make it non-existent.

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Kindly spare me this slop. It is probably the most unoriginal and obvious attempt to try and poke holes in the credibility of a theist in this forum. It's old. It's boring. It only hinders the discussion. Some of the replies didn't even acknowledge the intention of the OP but instead drifted off in another direction.....and other comments were not worded in such a way as suggest a reply was expected or even desired.
Repeating the same thing over and over again does not a discussion make.

By the way - don't you think wandering off from dark matter/dark energy to origins of life is drifting in another direction? Up until you did just that we were all discussing the theme of the OP.
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Dark Matter and Dark Energy
« Reply #60 on: August 13, 2012, 11:20:38 AM »
Why should someone have to absolutely disprove something that has never been shown to exist in the first place?

We can infer that something that we cannot directly observe is gravitationally affecting the visible matter in the universe.  This is demonstrable.  That is why we are coming up with theories about things like dark matter - because we have shown that those gravitational effects exist, therefore something must be causing them.  It could be dark matter, or it could be something else.  But something is definitely causing it.

Can you say the same regarding the existence of your god (or any god), BibleStudent?  Can you show us the evidence which led you to decide that something like a "god" exists?  So far as I know, we have no evidence that points to any god.  If you have that evidence, can you share it?  If you do not have that evidence, why do you insist that your god must exist and require that other people absolutely disprove it for you to change your mind?

Offline inveni0

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Re: Dark Matter and Dark Energy
« Reply #61 on: August 13, 2012, 02:04:45 PM »
BibleStudent, there is a fatal flaw with your comparison between God and Dark Matter and Dark Energy, and that flaw is the simple fact that the effects of Dark Matter and Dark Energy (or whatever they truly are) can be detected.

If you can name one--that's right, just one--aspect or effect of the God of the Bible that can be detected in any fashion, I will gladly swap out my atheist beliefs and rejoin the world of the theists.

I don't believe in God because he/she/it can not be detected by any of my senses.  And that's me talking from 25 years of being a believer, battling demonic oppression, and believing myself to have a great purpose and powerful friend.  Dark Matter and Energy are are a product of math.  God is not a product of math.  It's a product of chemical reactions in the brain.  So please, make sure that the detection you provide is evidenced through math, and not just a special feeling in your "heart".
« Last Edit: August 13, 2012, 02:07:34 PM by inveni0 »
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Offline Boots

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Re: Dark Matter and Dark Energy
« Reply #62 on: August 13, 2012, 04:00:37 PM »
Dark Matter and Energy are are a product of math.  God is not a product of math.  It's a product of chemical reactions in the brain.  So please, make sure that the detection you provide is evidenced through math, and not just a special feeling in your "heart".

yeah. replace the "a" with a "y" for what god is the product of!
* Religion: institutionalized superstition, period.

"Many of my ultra-conservative Republican friends...have trouble accepting the idea God is not a Republican. " ~OldChurchGuy

"We humans may never figure out the truth, but I prefer trying to find it over pretending we know it."  ~ParkingPlaces