Author Topic: Who is the father of Joseph?  (Read 3176 times)

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Offline Irish

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Who is the father of Joseph?
« on: February 10, 2009, 06:46:38 PM »
Who is the father of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

Somebody was fooling around...
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Offline Derrick

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2009, 08:47:11 PM »
"Who's your Daddy" takes on new meaning...
I am interested in these apparent contradictions at this time in my studies.
Some believe that neither of these gentlemen were his father, that in fact the Holy Ghost was the father of Jesus.
Decisions, decisions.
Thanx for the post.
Derrick

Offline Irish

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2009, 08:58:14 PM »
If you want a huge list of contradictions then go here:

http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm

I haven't checked them all out for legitimacy (as there are a LOT!) but just look a few of them up.
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Offline Airyaman

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2009, 09:00:40 PM »
The error may have come from not knowing which Joseph was supposed to be Jesus' (supposed) dad. In GMatt, it appears M&J are citizens of Bethlehem:

Mat 2:1  Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the east came to Jerusalem
Mat 2:2  saying, "Where is he who has been born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him."
Mat 2:3  When Herod the king heard this, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him;
Mat 2:4  and assembling all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he inquired of them where the Christ was to be born.
Mat 2:5  They told him, "In Bethlehem of Judea, for so it is written by the prophet:
Mat 2:6  "'And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for from you shall come a ruler who will shepherd my people Israel.'"

Mat 2:22  But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning over Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there, and being warned in a dream he withdrew to the district of Galilee.
Mat 2:23  And he went and lived in a city called Nazareth, that what was spoken by the prophets might be fulfilled: "He shall be called a Nazarene.


GMatt has M&J coming to Nazareth only as a precaution, not because they ever lived there.

Luke, on the other hand, seems to think M&J were originally citizens of Nazareth who travelled to Bethlehem to be part of a census.

Luk 1:26  In the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a city of Galilee named Nazareth,
Luk 1:27  to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. And the virgin's name was Mary.

Luk 2:4  And Joseph also went up from Galilee, from the town of Nazareth, to Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David,

Luk 2:39  And when they had performed everything according to the Law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own town of Nazareth.
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Offline dmnemaine

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2009, 11:19:57 PM »
"Who's your Daddy" takes on new meaning...
I am interested in these apparent contradictions at this time in my studies.
Some believe that neither of these gentlemen were his father, that in fact the Holy Ghost was the father of Jesus.
Decisions, decisions.
Thanx for the post.
Derrick

Not Jesus' father.  Joseph's father. 

Offline dmnemaine

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2009, 11:25:48 PM »
Who is the father of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

Somebody was fooling around...

I always heard the explanation that the Luke version of Jesus' lineage was Mary's side of the family.  Heli being Joseph's father-in-law.  Has anyone else come across this one before?  I wonder how it was decided which one was which?  A show of hands at the Council of Nicea?

Offline Emily

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2009, 11:35:00 PM »
Who is the father of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

Somebody was fooling around...

I always heard the explanation that the Luke version of Jesus' lineage was Mary's side of the family.  Heli being Joseph's father-in-law.  Has anyone else come across this one before?  I wonder how it was decided which one was which?  A show of hands at the Council of Nicea?

::dusting off my old bible:: Here's what my bible's footnotes say:
Matthew provides a legal lineage from David through Joey to Jesus, while Luke provides the physical lineage from David through Mary to Jesus
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Offline dmnemaine

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2009, 11:38:32 PM »
Who is the father of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

Somebody was fooling around...

I always heard the explanation that the Luke version of Jesus' lineage was Mary's side of the family.  Heli being Joseph's father-in-law.  Has anyone else come across this one before?  I wonder how it was decided which one was which?  A show of hands at the Council of Nicea?

::dusting off my old bible:: Here's what my bible's footnotes say:
Matthew provides a legal lineage from David through Joey to Jesus, while Luke provides the physical lineage from David through Mary to Jesus

Oh, it's in the footnotes, so it MUST be true.  Well there you go.  That settles that.

Offline Emily

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2009, 11:43:54 PM »
damn, the last part of my post didn't post.
Now I forgot what I said, but it had something to do with there not being a word for son-in-law back then, so it would have him listed as the son of Heli.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 11:57:44 PM by Emily »
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Offline Operator_014

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2009, 12:39:11 PM »
Quote
I always heard the explanation that the Luke version of Jesus' lineage was Mary's side of the family.  Heli being Joseph's father-in-law.  Has anyone else come across this one before?  I wonder how it was decided which one was which?  A show of hands at the Council of Nicea?

Matthew says
Quote
Matthan the father of Jacob, 16and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. 17Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ.
Luke says
Quote
He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melki, >>snip<< 

I've never been able to figure out how someone can claim this.  It can't possibly be that Luke is about Mary.  Both state that the lineage is Joseph's, clearly.

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Offline dmnemaine

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2009, 01:26:24 PM »
Quote
I always heard the explanation that the Luke version of Jesus' lineage was Mary's side of the family.  Heli being Joseph's father-in-law.  Has anyone else come across this one before?  I wonder how it was decided which one was which?  A show of hands at the Council of Nicea?

Matthew says
Quote
Matthan the father of Jacob, 16and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. 17Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ.
Luke says
Quote
He was the son, so it was thought, of Joseph, the son of Heli, 24the son of Matthat, the son of Levi, the son of Melki, >>snip<< 

I've never been able to figure out how someone can claim this.  It can't possibly be that Luke is about Mary.  Both state that the lineage is Joseph's, clearly.



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Offline Nick

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2009, 01:41:49 PM »
Sounds like a spot on Jerry Springer to me. :D
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Offline Iamnotarobot

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #12 on: February 11, 2009, 02:28:31 PM »
I have read that Luke's genealogy was for Mary's side, but nobody can ever back that up with logical proof... or any proof.
Additionally, Matthew took several people out of Joseph's lineage to make it add up to forty-two generations, broken up by three sets of fourteen. Which is hogwash, because the lineage is in the Chronicles and other locations in the OT, and he just skipped over people! Right in the first chapter of the New Testament is a GIGANTIC lie.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #13 on: February 11, 2009, 02:42:24 PM »
I have read that Luke's genealogy was for Mary's side, but nobody can ever back that up with logical proof... or any proof.
Additionally, Matthew took several people out of Joseph's lineage to make it add up to forty-two generations, broken up by three sets of fourteen. Which is hogwash, because the lineage is in the Chronicles and other locations in the OT, and he just skipped over people! Right in the first chapter of the New Testament is a GIGANTIC lie.

I've read in the old forum that Luke was Mary's lineage, but because the jews never kept track of women's lineage, they substituted her husband's name for hers.  As if it were so taboo they could not even mention her name.  Religion does terrible things to the mind...
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Offline Nick

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #14 on: February 11, 2009, 03:51:50 PM »
Why does it matter about Joseph.  He did not have a hand in it...did he?
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Offline dmnemaine

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #15 on: February 11, 2009, 04:15:43 PM »
Why does it matter about Joseph.  He did not have a hand in it...did he?

It's not that Joseph matters, it's that the bible can't agree on who his father is.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2009, 04:23:43 PM »
Right, but joe does matter.  They are showing his lineage as being a descendent of hebrew kings.  jc was supposed to be a king.  But they stumble on their own logic - jc is not the son of joe, he is the son of jehovah.

This is probably evidence of the gospel writers not believing in the divinity of jesus. It certainly shows that there was no single consensus on jc, even in the first and second centuries.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2009, 04:33:33 PM »
Right, but joe does matter.  They are showing his lineage as being a descendent of hebrew kings.  jc was supposed to be a king.  But they stumble on their own logic - jc is not the son of joe, he is the son of jehovah.

This is probably evidence of the gospel writers not believing in the divinity of jesus. It certainly shows that there was no single consensus on jc, even in the first and second centuries.

excellent reasoning, screwtape.  Hadn't thought of things that way.
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Offline dmnemaine

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2009, 04:36:49 PM »
Right, but joe does matter.  They are showing his lineage as being a descendent of hebrew kings.  jc was supposed to be a king.  But they stumble on their own logic - jc is not the son of joe, he is the son of jehovah.

This is probably evidence of the gospel writers not believing in the divinity of jesus. It certainly shows that there was no single consensus on jc, even in the first and second centuries.

Actually, the only gospel writer to make the claim that Jesus was God was "John".  The synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke) don't make the claim.  Of course, there are those christians who take things in the synoptics and try to make them say that Jesus was saying he was God.

Offline snkiesch

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2009, 04:42:47 PM »
It certainly shows that there was no single consensus on jc, even in the first and second centuries.

Isn't that one of the reasons for the first Council of Nicea?
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Who is the father of Joseph?
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2009, 08:07:33 AM »
Right, but joe does matter.  They are showing his lineage as being a descendent of hebrew kings.  jc was supposed to be a king.  But they stumble on their own logic - jc is not the son of joe, he is the son of jehovah.

This is probably evidence of the gospel writers not believing in the divinity of jesus. It certainly shows that there was no single consensus on jc, even in the first and second centuries.

Actually, the only gospel writer to make the claim that Jesus was God was "John".  The synoptic gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke) don't make the claim.  Of course, there are those christians who take things in the synoptics and try to make them say that Jesus was saying he was God.

Exactly.  The whole son of god thing was an after the fact boast that you see in the later parts of the NT.  The legend and myth of jesus H grew as it was told.  I cannot tell you the chapters and verses - I know the OT much better.

It certainly shows that there was no single consensus on jc, even in the first and second centuries.

Isn't that one of the reasons for the first Council of Nicea?

Right.  But even that didn't solve the problem.  There is still much conflict between the texts they kept. 
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