Jesus was crazy? Possibility of course.

[Atheistisaweirdword]

Jesus and mental disorders. So I'm almost sure everyone knows the only way you could deliberately hear god is schizophrenia, and in society today there's a mental disorder called god syndrome, which makes the person believe they are god in the flesh(Jesus). It's obvious if a scenario played out today we could easily falsify it. Do you think if Jesus' did exist it's likely he was just a crazy guy bound to by birth with psychotic or schizophrenia bound to eventually grow up and become mentally ill?

Also, I'm new to this site, and I'm not one for conspiracy theories at all, just wanted to think of a good subject. As I'm sure there are Christians who would read this I'd like to point out a few things to them, anyone who knows basic evolutionary psychology or human behavior knows people tell lies, and self documenting something doesn't count as evidence. So testimonials of people 2000 years ago really have no true evidential value. Also a few bible contradictions I'm sure most atheists know, hominids have been around for 4 million years(our less intelligent pre-evolutionary ancestors). Homo sapiens(humans) have been around for 100,000 years and 'god' came a little bit late don't you think? But this is the biggest eye opener for a lot of people, let's say after life is indubitable. Would you really want to live forever? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of life? For me it would.


Thanks for reading.

[Astreja]

When I think of the Gospel stories, I'm seeing a Jesus with one or more personality disorders.  There appears to be some narcissism, where he extols people who suck up to him and rages at anyone who questions him.  Lots of anti-social behaviour and vandalism -- A riot in the temple, a withered fig tree, 2 thousand drowned pigs, and Grand Theft Ass and Colt.

Outright insanity might be harder to pin down, though.  Some of his rants were over-the-top, but did he actually believe what he was saying, or was he just working the crowd?

[Atheistisaweirdword]

When I think of the Gospel stories, I'm seeing a Jesus with one or more personality disorders.  There appears to be some narcissism, where he extols people who suck up to him and rages at anyone who questions him.  Lots of anti-social behaviour and vandalism -- A riot in the temple, a withered fig tree, 2 thousand drowned pigs, and Grand Theft Ass and Colt.

Outright insanity might be harder to pin down, though.  Some of his rants were over-the-top, but did he actually believe what he was saying, or was he just working the crowd?

No one could ever know if Jesus even existed, no historical evidence besides the bible, which is just testimonials that vary through time. But I think if he did exist he was probably just as crazy as any cult leader we've seen throughout the last 100 years.

[Nick]

"Drink the Kool-Aid".

[Atheistisaweirdword]

"Drink the Kool-Aid".

I don't understand? Unless its implying that I'm trying to be cool? If it is I'm not really into bible-bashing and wouldn't dare do it to anyone in my family or any friends, it just hurts feelings. But this is the Internet so I felt I could get out some bible-bashing I can't do in reality with people I'd see.

[changeling]

I think that he is merely referring to another crazy Jesus freak, Jim Jones.
Just as crazy as Jesus would have been if he existed.

[Zankuu]

I don't understand? Unless its implying that I'm trying to be cool? If it is I'm not really into bible-bashing and wouldn't dare do it to anyone in my family or any friends, it just hurts feelings. But this is the Internet so I felt I could get out some bible-bashing I can't do in reality with people I'd see.

Drinking the Kool-Aid.

[Atheistisaweirdword]

I think that he is merely referring to another crazy Jesus freak, Jim Jones.
Just as crazy as Jesus would have been if he existed.

Ohhhh!!!! I feel like such a dumbass, I remember that. I apologize. Hahaha I feel really stupid. Thanks for telling me, ha I can't believe I forgot about that. Hahaha

[Atheistisaweirdword]

"Drink the Kool-Aid".

My bad I didn't understand what it was implying, was born 15 years after it happened, but do remember hearing the story. It's crazy that it happened, just read the wiki page on it, gave me shivers.

[burnish]

Jesus and mental disorders. So I'm almost sure everyone knows the only way you could deliberately hear god is schizophrenia, and in society today there's a mental disorder called god syndrome, which makes the person believe they are god in the flesh(Jesus). It's obvious if a scenario played out today we could easily falsify it. Do you think if Jesus' did exist it's likely he was just a crazy guy bound to by birth with psychotic or schizophrenia bound to eventually grow up and become mentally ill?

Also, I'm new to this site, and I'm not one for conspiracy theories at all, just wanted to think of a good subject. As I'm sure there are Christians who would read this I'd like to point out a few things to them, anyone who knows basic evolutionary psychology or human behavior knows people tell lies, and self documenting something doesn't count as evidence. So testimonials of people 2000 years ago really have no true evidential value. Also a few bible contradictions I'm sure most atheists know, hominids have been around for 4 million years(our less intelligent pre-evolutionary ancestors). Homo sapiens(humans) have been around for 100,000 years and 'god' came a little bit late don't you think? But this is the biggest eye opener for a lot of people, let's say after life is indubitable. Would you really want to live forever? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of life? For me it would.


Thanks for reading.

Do you believe Jesus was wise?

I think death defeats the purpose of life.  I do want to live forever, and, living with an infinite God means there would never be a dull moment. 

[JohnKurwa]

Do you believe Jesus was wise?

I think death defeats the purpose of life.  I do want to live forever, and, living with an infinite God means there would never be a dull moment.

I don't know much about Jesus and how he assumedly lived, so I cannot answer the first question.

Why are you thinking in such a pessimistic way? Can't the purpose of life be to die happily with most of your dreams coming true during your lifetime? But well thats really a personal decision you have to make.

But does just believing in something will make you live forever with your god?

[joebbowers]

If Jesus existed, he was insane. But he didn't exist. In the case of a man who was supposedly performing miracles left and right, including resurrecting the dead, absence of evidence is evidence of absence.

[stuffin]

Do you believe Jesus was wise?

I think death defeats the purpose of life.  I do want to live forever, and, living with an infinite God means there would never be a dull moment.

1- The bible makes Jesus look wise, but you have to ask; did a Jesus person really exist and did he have a personality disorder(s)?

2- a What is the purpose of life?

    b Wanting to live forever with an infinite god sounds greedy. And, how do you know there would never be a dull moment (cause the afterlife has never been proven)?

[pamindfw]

No one could ever know if Jesus even existed, no historical evidence besides the bible, which is just testimonials that vary through time. But I think if he did exist he was probably just as crazy as any cult leader we've seen throughout the last 100 years.

Cynical me had come to this same conclusion, because the bible is so contradictory and problematic, and there is so little else written about jesus.  I'm in the process of reading "Did Jesus Exist?" by Bart Ehrman.  I have come to respect his scholarship on all things biblical, and since he doesn't believe in god, he doesn't seem to have a personal agenda for believing that an actual jesus lived. 

 Anyway, on this topic I've decided to trust Dr. Ehrman as the expert, same as I trust scientific experts and medical experts about most things they agree on.

Just thought you might be interested in this book. 

[burnish]

I don't know much about Jesus and how he assumedly lived, so I cannot answer the first question.

Have you ever read the bible?

Why are you thinking in such a pessimistic way? Can't the purpose of life be to die happily with most of your dreams coming true during your lifetime? But well thats really a personal decision you have to make.

If the Universe is just happenstance then life has no purpose.  You may believe that this purpose you described is true, another person might believe the purpose of life is to rape and murder.  Who is right? 

But does just believing in something will make you live forever with your god?

It's not a matter of wishful thinking, if that's what you mean.  In my experience, God gives you evidence that He is who he says he is.

[stuffin]

It's not a matter of wishful thinking, if that's what you mean.  In my experience, God gives you evidence that He is who he says he is.

Could you please tell us in your experience exactly and precisely what evidence god has given you that proves he is who he says he is? Otherwise you speak empty words.

[JohnKurwa]

Have you ever read the bible?

Just scattered parts of it. But I guess you are intend something further than just finding out if I read it  .

If the Universe is just happenstance then life has no purpose.  You may believe that this purpose you described is true, another person might believe the purpose of life is to rape and murder.  Who is right?

Why has life no purpose if Universe is just happenstance? Just because we are really really really really small parts of it, can't life still has a purpose? In fact, helping other people? Yeah, as I said, this is more a personal point of view, so it is not really a good point. I guess we can't say anyone is right as a purpose of life has not necessarily to be something good. I guess you are pointing at objective moral here, in my opinion nothing is 'objective' so I do not believe objective moral exists.

It's not a matter of wishful thinking, if that's what you mean.  In my experience, God gives you evidence that He is who he says he is.

I was intending this, yes. Can you describe this process? I am very curious about how you say that something that has no evidence for existance gives you evidence for its existance in a way no one else than people believe in it can take part in. For me it's like:

A: My dad is Superman

B: Well, any evidence?

A: In my experience, my dad gives me the evidence that he is who he says he is.

B: Ok, praise your dad.

[Ambassador Pony]

If the Universe is just happenstance then life has no purpose.  You may believe that this purpose you described is true, another person might believe the purpose of life is to rape and murder.  Who is right?

For clarity's sake, did you just imply that without your religious beliefs, you would rape and murder people?

[burnish]

If Jesus existed, he was insane. But he didn't exist. In the case of a man who was supposedly  performing miracles left and right, including resurrecting the dead, absence of evidence is  evidence of absence.

Even Richard Dawkins believes that Jesus existed.  I realize that doesn't prove anything but he is a very skeptical man, obviously:



Also, do you think a madman would say these words?

Matthew 22:39 'Love your neighbor as yourself

Matthew 5:41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles.

Matthew 5:42 Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

Luke 6:35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked.

Luke 6:28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you.

Luke 14:12-14  Then Jesus said to his host, “When you give a luncheon or dinner, do not invite your friends, your brothers or relatives, or your rich neighbors; if you do, they may invite you back and so you will be repaid. But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind, and you will be blessed.

As far as the resurrection, there is evidence.  Here is a good video that presents the general case for the resurrection:

[burnish]

1- The bible makes Jesus look wise, but you have to ask; did a Jesus person really exist and  did he have a personality disorder(s)?

I guess I will refer you to my last post in this thread for these questions since I just answered them.

2- a What is the purpose of life? b Wanting to live forever with an infinite god sounds greedy. And, how do you know there would never be a dull moment (cause the afterlife has never been proven)?

 

I would still serve God if He didn't offer me eternal life.  I also assume that an infinite God could give us infinite numbers of things to do, and that He designed us perfectly for eternal life.  I would also say that if the resurrection is true, the afterlife is proven.

[burnish]

No one could ever know if Jesus even existed, no historical evidence besides the bible, which is just testimonials that vary through time. But I think if he did exist he was probably just as crazy as any cult leader we've seen throughout the last 100 years.

Cynical me had come to this same conclusion, because the bible is so contradictory and problematic, and there is so little else written about jesus.  I'm in the process of reading "Did Jesus Exist?" by Bart Ehrman.  I have come to respect his scholarship on all things biblical, and since he doesn't believe in god, he doesn't seem to have a personal agenda for believing that an actual jesus lived. 

 Anyway, on this topic I've decided to trust Dr. Ehrman as the expert, same as I trust scientific experts and medical experts about most things they agree on.

Just thought you might be interested in this book. 

This video may interest you:

[burnish]

It's not a matter of wishful thinking, if that's what you mean.  In my experience, God gives you evidence that He is who he says he is.

Could you please tell us in your experience exactly and precisely what evidence god has given you that proves he is who he says he is? Otherwise you speak empty words.

I answered this question here:  http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,23063.29.html

[burnish]

Have you ever read the bible?

Just scattered parts of it. But I guess you are intend something further than just finding out  if I read it  .

Well, I am asking since you seemed to have formed an opinion about Jesus.  I wondered if this was informed by scripture or not.  If it's a strong opinion, why not temper it with more information?  The book of John is good place to start.

If the Universe is just happenstance then life has no purpose.  You may believe that this  purpose you described is true, another person might believe the purpose of life is to rape and  murder.  Who is right?

Why has life no purpose if Universe is just happenstance? Just because we are really really  really really small parts of it, can't life still has a purpose? In fact, helping other people?  Yeah, as I said, this is more a personal point of view, so it is not really a good point. I  guess we can't say anyone is right as a purpose of life has not necessarily to be something  good. I guess you are pointing at objective moral here, in my opinion nothing is 'objective' so  I do not believe objective moral exists.

If there is no objective meaning, then what we have left is nihilism.  Do you agree with this quote?:

The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

Richard Dawkins - Blind Watchmaker

If you don't believe in objective morals, do you think rape is sometimes right?

It's not a matter of wishful thinking, if that's what you mean.  In my experience, God gives  you evidence that He is who he says he is.

I was intending this, yes. Can you describe this process? I am very curious about how you say  that something that has no evidence for existance gives you evidence for its existance in a way  no one else than people believe in it can take part in. For me it's like:

A: My dad is Superman

B: Well, any evidence?

A: In my experience, my dad gives me the evidence that he is who he says he is.

B: Ok, praise your dad.

The paradigm is between those who know God personally and those who don't.  God is giving everyone the choice to voluntarily seek Him out, and doesn't impose Himself on people.  Therefore, He hasn't given me a video to show you of Him coming into my life.  He has chosen to reach people primarily through His word.  I also wouldn't say that you should just believe what I say.  That's why Christians preach the gospel, so people know how to reach God on their own.

I talked a little of this process here: 

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,23063.29.html

[burnish]

If the Universe is just happenstance then life has no purpose.  You may believe that  this purpose you described is true, another person might believe the purpose of life is to rape  and murder.  Who is right?

For clarity's sake, did you just imply that without your religious beliefs, you would rape and  murder people?

No, not at all.  I believe everyone has a God given conscience which tells them right from wrong.  Even psychopaths know right from wrong;  they just choose to ignore it.  What I am talking about is that without an objective meaning, we are speaking only about opinions.  I am essentially asking how you determine which opinion has more validity than any other.

[One Above All]

I believe everyone has a God given conscience which tells them right from wrong.  Even psychopaths know right from wrong;  they just choose to ignore it.

Shows how much you know.

Tell me, burnish; have you ever taken five seconds to learn any of the crap you're spewing all over the forum? Because you've been wrong in every single post you've made. Save for the ones in your intro thread.

[pianodwarf]

Also, do you think a madman would say these words?

Why not?

[stuffin]

I answered this question here:  http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,23063.29.html

Are you saying this is your proof that god is who he really says he is?

The revelation was a supernatural transformation of my being, when I received the Holy Spirit.

[Ambassador Pony]

No, not at all.  I believe everyone has a God given conscience which tells them right from wrong.  Even psychopaths know right from wrong;  they just choose to ignore it.  What I am talking about is that without an objective meaning, we are speaking only about opinions.  I am essentially asking how you determine which opinion has more validity than any other.

Glad to hear it. The answer is in your post. Our conscience is a product of our brain, and, thus, our genetic and cultural heritage determines behaviour. The paradigm is the same, in my view, and your opinion only differs with regard to the origin of the process. That's fine, we can't all be neuroscientists or biologists.

[JohnKurwa]

Well, I am asking since you seemed to have formed an opinion about Jesus.  I wondered if this was informed by scripture or not.  If it's a strong opinion, why not temper it with more information?  The book of John is good place to start.

I have not really formed an opinion, as I don't know so much, what I know is that there is now scientifical evidence that he lived. Also I am not really interested in a person who is claimed to be the son of God as I don't believe in a God, so he is just a normal person for me that has not really accomplished anything special.

If there is no objective meaning, then what we have left is nihilism.  Do you agree with this quote?:

The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but blind, pitiless indifference.

Richard Dawkins - Blind Watchmaker

If you don't believe in objective morals, do you think rape is sometimes right?

No, this is just wrong. Why do you state there has to be an objective purpose of life? In my opinion everyone can have his own, subjective purpose of life. Why does this make me a nihilist? I also do not agree with the quote you posted. I think there is evil and good, I also think life has a purpose, otherwise what was my purpose? What is the purpose of the lives of Christians? To fullfill a predictated (by God) destiny, as he has a plan for all of us? Why would you want to live a life everything is planned before?

You can't say this is objective, nothing is objective, this is what I think.

If objective moral exists, why do we even raise our children? They would know from an early age that it is not good to hit their siblings or not to steal or to help other people? Also: Why would there be murder if obj. moral existed? Do you think one can ignore a God given moral? This just seems so illogical to me.

Your question: I think rape is always bad. Why do you think this has to be God given? Don't you think it makes logical/rational sense that we should not force anyone to do anything he does not like? Don't you think this comes from how our parents raise us? If it is God given, why are there bad people in the world? And please don't come up with a cheap excuse. Give me an argument that can convince me.

The paradigm is between those who know God personally and those who don't.  God is giving everyone the choice to voluntarily seek Him out, and doesn't impose Himself on people.  Therefore, He hasn't given me a video to show you of Him coming into my life.  He has chosen to reach people primarily through His word.  I also wouldn't say that you should just believe what I say.  That's why Christians preach the gospel, so people know how to reach God on their own.

I talked a little of this process here: 

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,23063.29.html

This is meant metaphorically I hope. This is just nonsense to me, as something with no physical influence in the universe can talk, how can his word reach you? I guess it is in your mind, and so imaginary.

I have no problem if you believe this, but it is hard to understand for someone who does not believe in it. When I was young there were times where I prayed, whilst I did not believe a God existed to see if he would answer me. He did not.