Author Topic: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself  (Read 19167 times)

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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #435 on: July 09, 2013, 10:16:10 AM »
But your imaginary events compare very poorly to my explanation.  But forget my attempt at communication.  Use better sources: http://biblez.com/search.php?q=pray+like+this
http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=how+to+engage+in+conversation+and+discussion&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&channel=suggest

Yeah - not too helpful, right?
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
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Offline Astreja

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #436 on: July 09, 2013, 12:22:41 PM »
WHAT HE SAID COMPARES VERY POORLY.

Those people did not do even close to what I explained.

You can't be serious, SW.  How could you possibly know how close these individuals' actions were?  It's entirely possible that they did all the "right things" but got entirely different results.
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #437 on: July 09, 2013, 12:52:19 PM »
But your imaginary events compare very poorly to my explanation.
Nope.  It's just easier for you to claim that those must have been imaginary events so you can continue to play pretend that it's just a matter of knowing how to pray just right.  Or to act like those people were at fault for their own loss of faith, because you - without having any real idea of what they went through - think that it was just a matter of them not doing things the 'right' way.

You know what we call someone who's more concerned with following the proper procedures than with getting things done?  A bureaucrat.  And that's what you're passing your god off as - the Great Bureaucrat in the Sky.  More concerned with making sure all the I's are dotted and all the T's are crossed than with actually getting anything done.

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #438 on: July 09, 2013, 01:11:44 PM »
But your imaginary events compare very poorly to my explanation.
Nope.  It's just easier for you to claim that those must have been imaginary events so you can continue to play pretend that it's just a matter of knowing how to pray just right.  Or to act like those people were at fault for their own loss of faith, because you - without having any real idea of what they went through - think that it was just a matter of them not doing things the 'right' way.You know what we call someone who's more concerned with following the proper procedures than with getting things done?  A bureaucrat.  And that's what you're passing your god off as - the Great Bureaucrat in the Sky.  More concerned with making sure all the I's are dotted and all the T's are crossed than with actually getting anything done.


I may be wrong.  You failed to quote me so I can't compare.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 01:14:49 PM by SkyWriting »

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #439 on: July 09, 2013, 01:12:50 PM »
WHAT HE SAID COMPARES VERY POORLY.

Those people did not do even close to what I explained.

You can't be serious, SW.  How could you possibly know how close these individuals' actions were?  It's entirely possible that they did all the "right things" but got entirely different results.

You are correct. I can only go by his description.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #440 on: July 09, 2013, 01:22:55 PM »
WHAT HE SAID COMPARES VERY POORLY.

Those people did not do even close to what I explained.

You can't be serious, SW.  How could you possibly know how close these individuals' actions were?  It's entirely possible that they did all the "right things" but got entirely different results.

You are correct. I can only go by his description.

Which means that you can't know whether it compares poorly or not.  Checkmate.
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Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #441 on: July 09, 2013, 03:14:15 PM »
I may be wrong.  You failed to quote me so I can't compare.
You do know you can right-click on the "Quote from" link in order to go to the actual post, right?  You could easily have accessed the material you were referring to that way.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #442 on: July 09, 2013, 03:19:30 PM »
I may be wrong.  You failed to quote me so I can't compare.
You do know you can right-click on the "Quote from" link in order to go to the actual post, right?  You could easily have accessed the material you were referring to that way.

SW won't do that! That would be using science to learn about something that happened in the past. As he has told us many times, science can't explain the past..... :police:
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #443 on: July 11, 2013, 04:24:33 PM »
I may be wrong.  You failed to quote me so I can't compare.
You do know you can right-click on the "Quote from" link in order to go to the actual post, right?  You could easily have accessed the material you were referring to that way.

SW won't do that! That would be using science to learn about something that happened in the past. As he has told us many times, science can't explain the past..... :police:

No, I didn't know that.  Thanks. 
All the thread tools I'm used to are missing on this forum.
Science can make predictions about future events.
I can predict that the right click method will take me
to a quoted post.  It may work every time. But it
can't be proven that it will work every time. Because it
might not.


Offline jaimehlers

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #444 on: July 11, 2013, 04:45:12 PM »
Actually, science can also compare predictions to actual events that happened in the past.  It isn't just limited to the future.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #445 on: July 11, 2013, 04:48:14 PM »
I may be wrong.  You failed to quote me so I can't compare.
You do know you can right-click on the "Quote from" link in order to go to the actual post, right?  You could easily have accessed the material you were referring to that way.

SW won't do that! That would be using science to learn about something that happened in the past. As he has told us many times, science can't explain the past..... :police:

No, I didn't know that.  Thanks. 
All the thread tools I'm used to are missing on this forum.
Science can make predictions about future events.
I can predict that the right click method will take me
to a quoted post.  It may work every time. But it
can't be proven that it will work every time. Because it
might not.

How does science make predictions about the future? It does that by showing us what happened in similar situations in the past, and extrapolating. Science is really good at showing us what happened in the past.

In the past, when I clicked I got a quoted post. Therefore in the future the same thing is likely to happen. If it does not, I have just made a new observation to include in my future study. Based on what happened in the past....
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #446 on: July 11, 2013, 04:49:24 PM »
Actually, science can also compare predictions to actual events that happened in the past.  It isn't just limited to the future.

Could you show me published procedure that includes that?  I've been looking for a while.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&sclient=psy-ab&q=the%20scientific%20method&oq=&gs_l=&pbx=1&fp=d335c522ec94dfcd&ion=1&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48705608,d.aWc&biw=1132&bih=740

Offline nogodsforme

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Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #448 on: July 11, 2013, 05:01:49 PM »
Actually, science can also compare predictions to actual events that happened in the past.  It isn't just limited to the future.

Could you show me published procedure that includes that?  I've been looking for a while.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&sclient=psy-ab&q=the%20scientific%20method&oq=&gs_l=&pbx=1&fp=d335c522ec94dfcd&ion=1&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48705608,d.aWc&biw=1132&bih=740

I thought you'd never ask. Enjoy:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/news/fossils_ruins/anthropology/
http://www.burkemuseum.org/paleontology
http://www.paleoportal.org/
http://www.archaeology.org/news
http://geology.gsapubs.org/

Could you show me published procedure that includes that
I've been looking for a while.

I have looked in places like those and found no published
scientific methodologies for examining historical or pre-historical events.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 05:04:52 PM by SkyWriting »

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #449 on: July 11, 2013, 05:11:09 PM »
^^^I don't know what you mean. Those publications are full of articles that show how science investigates the past. That is why I linked to them. I am seriously confused.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #450 on: July 11, 2013, 05:12:23 PM »
^^^I don't know what you mean. Those publications are full of articles that show how science investigates the past. That is why I linked to them. I am seriously confused.

Could you show me published procedure that includes that? 
I've been looking for a while.

I have looked in places like those and found no published
scientific methodologies for examining historical or pre-historical events.

http://monash.edu/pubs/2013handbooks/units/SCI2020.html


I gave you a link of published methodologies to use as a guide:
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&ie=UTF-8#safe=off&sclient=psy-ab&q=scientic%20method&oq=&gs_l=&pbx=1&fp=d335c522ec94dfcd&ion=1&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48705608,d.aWc&biw=1132&bih=740
« Last Edit: July 11, 2013, 05:21:13 PM by SkyWriting »

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #451 on: July 11, 2013, 06:32:03 PM »
You linked a list of definitions of the scientific method. Obviously, those are only basic guidelines so you know you are performing the experiment or examining the evidence scientifically, not just making stuff up or including bias inadvertently.

In different disciplines the way you apply the scientific method depends on whether you are studying a living chimpanzee, a pile of rocks, a vial of an unknown chemical substance, some disease germs on a slide, an ice core from Greenland, a DNA sample on a drinking glass from a crime scene, or a bone fragment from an archeological dig. Or a smoking gun in someone's hand, with a dead person on the ground in front of them.

Whatever you are studying, you will be applying the scientific method to show something has already happened in the past-- a criminal suspect used the drinking glass yesterday, so we can find him using the DNA he left on it, for example. Or, the Greenland ice core reveals past centuries of climate data based on the kind of gases trapped in different layers of the ice. Or you find out that the chimp has learned how to use tools from past trial and error. Or you find out the person holding the smoking gun probably did not fire it, because there is no gun residue on their hands. All stuff about the past.

There won't be easy 1,2,3 cookbook instructions for how to analyze all those different things included in a basic definition of the scientific method. It depends on the discipline and what you are trying to find out.

Is that what you are asking? I am not sure what more you expected a definition of the scientific method to give you.  :-\
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #452 on: July 11, 2013, 10:12:59 PM »
we still debatin poes?

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #453 on: July 12, 2013, 03:55:24 AM »
You linked a list of definitions of the scientific method. Obviously, those are only basic guidelines so you know you are performing the experiment or examining the evidence scientifically, not just making stuff up or including bias inadvertently.

In different disciplines the way you apply the scientific method depends on whether you are studying a living chimpanzee, a pile of rocks, a vial of an unknown chemical substance, some disease germs on a slide, an ice core from Greenland, a DNA sample on a drinking glass from a crime scene, or a bone fragment from an archeological dig. Or a smoking gun in someone's hand, with a dead person on the ground in front of them.

Whatever you are studying, you will be applying the scientific method to show something has already happened in the past-- a criminal suspect used the drinking glass yesterday, so we can find him using the DNA he left on it, for example. Or, the Greenland ice core reveals past centuries of climate data based on the kind of gases trapped in different layers of the ice. Or you find out that the chimp has learned how to use tools from past trial and error. Or you find out the person holding the smoking gun probably did not fire it, because there is no gun residue on their hands. All stuff about the past.

There won't be easy 1,2,3 cookbook instructions for how to analyze all those different things included in a basic definition of the scientific method. It depends on the discipline and what you are trying to find out.

Is that what you are asking? I am not sure what more you expected a definition of the scientific method to give you.  :-\

Yes.  You invented, or explained a methodology that covers a lot of exploration in different areas.  Now, can you find a published methodology that teaches that process, or am I, as a researcher of knowledge, supposed to log into chat forums to find one.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 03:57:17 AM by SkyWriting »

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #454 on: July 12, 2013, 03:59:21 AM »
we still debatin poes?

I have 6000 posts in another forum you can examine for consistency.
http://www.christianforums.com/users/255843/
« Last Edit: July 12, 2013, 04:04:13 AM by SkyWriting »

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #455 on: July 12, 2013, 07:13:01 AM »
Yes.  You invented, or explained a methodology that covers a lot of exploration in different areas.  Now, can you find a published methodology that teaches that process, or am I, as a researcher of knowledge, supposed to log into chat forums to find one.

The published methodology of science is very general - a textbook will give it to you.  In specific instances, such as the examples cited by ngfm, we can act in accordance with that methodology while taking actions that make sense in the context of what we're trying to find out.

Are you trying to say that scientific methodology doesn't exist?   :o
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Offline William

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #456 on: July 12, 2013, 07:21:00 AM »
I have 6000 posts in another forum you can examine for consistency.
http://www.christianforums.com/users/255843/

Not exactly the most discerning audience  ;D
Git mit uns

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #457 on: July 12, 2013, 07:33:35 AM »
It does demonstrate that he's not pretending, though.  Kind of sad, that.
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Offline jdawg70

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #458 on: July 12, 2013, 08:10:43 AM »
It does demonstrate that he's not pretending, though.  Kind of sad, that.
Didn't you see The Prestige?  It's possible that he's playing the long game of pretend.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline Anfauglir

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #459 on: July 12, 2013, 08:27:17 AM »
There won't be easy 1,2,3 cookbook instructions for how to analyze all those different things included in a basic definition of the scientific method. It depends on the discipline and what you are trying to find out.

Is that what you are asking? I am not sure what more you expected a definition of the scientific method to give you.  :-\

Yes.  You invented, or explained a methodology that covers a lot of exploration in different areas.  Now, can you find a published methodology that teaches that process, or am I, as a researcher of knowledge, supposed to log into chat forums to find one.

As nogods said, different for different disciplines.  Was there one you were particularly interested in?
Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid.
Why is it so hard for believers to answer a direct question?

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #460 on: July 12, 2013, 10:17:30 AM »
Didn't you see The Prestige?  It's possible that he's playing the long game of pretend.

I said "demonstrate", not "prove".
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #461 on: July 12, 2013, 10:44:11 AM »
There won't be easy 1,2,3 cookbook instructions for how to analyze all those different things included in a basic definition of the scientific method. It depends on the discipline and what you are trying to find out.

Is that what you are asking? I am not sure what more you expected a definition of the scientific method to give you.  :-\

Yes.  You invented, or explained a methodology that covers a lot of exploration in different areas.  Now, can you find a published methodology that teaches that process, or am I, as a researcher of knowledge, supposed to log into chat forums to find one.

As nogods said, different for different disciplines.  Was there one you were particularly interested in?

The basic methodology that covers all research into past events.






Offline jdawg70

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #462 on: July 12, 2013, 10:59:59 AM »
Didn't you see The Prestige?  It's possible that he's playing the long game of pretend.

I said "demonstrate", not "prove".
Valid.

Just shoehorning as many random film references today as I can I s'pose.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
- Eddie Izzard

Offline SkyWriting

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Re: Proof Jesus Contradicted Himself
« Reply #463 on: July 12, 2013, 11:30:50 AM »
Yes.  You invented, or explained a methodology that covers a lot of exploration in different areas.  Now, can you find a published methodology that teaches that process, or am I, as a researcher of knowledge, supposed to log into chat forums to find one.

The published methodology of science is very general - a textbook will give it to you.  In specific instances, such as the examples cited by ngfm, we can act in accordance with that methodology while taking actions that make sense in the context of what we're trying to find out.

Are you trying to say that scientific methodology doesn't exist?   

You mean by asking for an example?