Author Topic: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]  (Read 2405 times)

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Offline HAL

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bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« on: June 08, 2012, 12:16:00 PM »
Hello.

A bigger mystery than, "Why won't God heal amputees" is "Why has your forum disabled registering."

Have you been getting a lot of good answers that you don't like? I don't want to draw an Invalid Conclusion.

As for amputees, I will use the standard equation for the If-Then Conditional as prescribed by the rules of Symbolic Logic:

P -> Q

If P, THEN Q.

(I noticed there was no "Logic" section of your forum. Consider adding one.)

Matthew 12 28 But IF I cast out devils by the Spirit of God (P), THEN the kingdom of God is come unto you. (Q)

Matthew 21:43A The kingdom of God shall be taken from you (~Q)

Therefore, NOT Christ is casting out devils by the spirit of God. (~P)

His disciples were temporarily under the same directive:

Luke 10:9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

INQUIRY: IF the Spirit of God should be healing amputees (P), THEN LOGICALLY CONCLUDE that the Kingdom of God is among Us, and among us TODAY.. (Q).

If you can't (~Q), then not P.

The problem isn't the text. The problem is human reasoning: it tends to be illogical in its "conclusions".

I'm not sure I would call them conclusions.

Amputees with faith do not need to be healed.

Mental midgets who can not reason logically need to be healed.

Bye.



Note: There is nothing wrong with the registration as we have had plenty of new members. It's possible your registration email ended up in your spam folder. I am informing this person via an email response.

HAL

Offline Nick

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2012, 12:23:34 PM »
And that folks is how you mind your Ps and Qs. ;)
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Kimberly

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2012, 12:35:30 PM »
I admit that having a migraine at the moment makes it hard to follow simple logic.... but the P-Q thing made absolutely no sense whats so ever.
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline Quesi

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #3 on: June 08, 2012, 12:45:35 PM »
I'm sorry that you had trouble registering.  I'm wondering if you hit enter and got one of those "resource limit" messages that all of us get here on this forum from time to time.  If that is what happened, please re-submit. 

Trust me.  Everyone here gets all excited when a new theist registers.  You'll probably get more attention than you want!

Offline euroclydon

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #4 on: June 08, 2012, 12:52:23 PM »
Here I am, once PrinceWalter of YouTube, and the Tormentor of NonStampCollector

.... but the P-Q thing made absolutely no sense whats so ever.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modus_tollens
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 12:54:12 PM by euroclydon »

Offline Azdgari

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2012, 12:56:42 PM »
A bigger mystery than, "Why won't God heal amputees" is "Why has your forum disabled registering."

I was going to read and respond to the rest, but this ^^ suggests that the reader is only looking at the old, disabled forum.  That, or there really is a problem with registration.  In the former case, could an E-mail be sent to this person with a link to the operational forum?

EDIT:  Nevermind, he's found his way here apparently.
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Offline BaalServant

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2012, 01:00:33 PM »
euroclydon - welcome to the forum.

The first thing that I would ask is that you apply your logic to the tenets of any other religion.

Does attributing a P and a Q to the if and then statements of any other religion make that religion true?

Why do you think the case is otherwise for the postulates of your religion?


Also, you're missing the gist of the question, "Why won't god heal amputees?"

When we look at the healings that are attributed to gods, in every instance, it's something that people can do.  If a god were really capable of healing people, why don't we see an situation irreversible by the actions of people become reversed - for example, an amputee regaining a missing limb?
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Offline hickdive

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #7 on: June 08, 2012, 01:02:00 PM »
By golly that's convincing and I'm off to Narnia. I'm flying myself there by the simple expedient of pulling on my own boot laces.

The OP could probably get there in their car:



More seriously though; exactly the same 'logic' could be used to prove anything from any book - which is why it fails.
Stupidity, unlike intelligence, has no limits.

Offline euroclydon

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2012, 01:12:14 PM »
euroclydon - welcome to the forum.

The first thing that I would ask is that you apply your logic to the tenets of any other religion.

Does attributing a P and a Q to the if and then statements of any other religion make that religion true?

Why do you think the case is otherwise for the postulates of your religion?

Sound reasoning is for everybody.

However, since the Antecedent, Consequent, and Conclusion of my post were specific to a phenomenon, extending them to the general claim of one religion over another is disengenuous, I perceive that this is a red herring, and an attempt to begin an argument between two religions, rather than answering the question.

I will put you back on track:

INQUIRY: IF the Spirit of God should be healing amputees, THEN L-O-G-I-C-A-L-L-Y  C-O-N-C-L-U-D-E that the Kingdom of God is among Us, and among us TODAY..

Also, you're missing the gist of the question, "Why won't god heal amputees?"

Quote
When we look at the healings that are attributed to gods, in every instance, it's something that people can do.

What do you mean?

Quote
If a god were really capable of healing people, why don't we see an situation irreversible by the actions of people become reversed - for example, an amputee regaining a missing limb?

Please re-word or provide example.
[/quote]

Offline Azdgari

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2012, 01:13:06 PM »
Have you been getting a lot of good answers that you don't like? I don't want to draw an Invalid Conclusion.

Answers vary.  Sometimes the answer is "But he does!  <link to a video about a woman with a prosthetic leg or something like that>".  Other times, they cite the biblical story of Jesus healing a soldier's ear.  More commonly, the answer is that we aren't supposed to interpret the Bible's words as the literal truth.  All but this last category seem to misunderstand the question.

(I noticed there was no "Logic" section of your forum. Consider adding one.)

Logic unapplied is boring.  On its own, it pertains to nothing.  The application of logic should be happening throughout the other sections, and if it's not, then that's a bigger problem than the lack of a "Logic" section.

As for amputees, I will use the standard equation for the If-Then Conditional as prescribed by the rules of Symbolic Logic:

P -> Q

If P, THEN Q.


Matthew 12 28 But IF I cast out devils by the Spirit of God (P), THEN the kingdom of God is come unto you. (Q)

Matthew 21:43A The kingdom of God shall be taken from you (~Q)

Therefore, NOT Christ is casting out devils by the spirit of God. (~P)

The Qs don't seem to line up at all, here.  If the "kingdom of God is come unto you"[1] then that in no way implies, in and of itself, that the kingdom cannot be taken away.  You'd have to make an argument that the status of "having the kingdom of God come unto you" is absolutely permenant for each who experience it.  Maybe you can make that argument, maybe not; all I'm saying is that what you've actually written does not follow logically.

His disciples were temporarily under the same directive:

Luke 10:9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

INQUIRY: IF the Spirit of God should be healing amputees (P), THEN LOGICALLY CONCLUDE that the Kingdom of God is among Us, and among us TODAY.. (Q).
If you can't (~Q), then not P.

The bolded line does not follow from the scripture you provided.  Which is why, unlike in the first example, you did not put your P and Q directly into the text.

The problem isn't the text. The problem is human reasoning: it tends to be illogical in its "conclusions".

You've provided an excellent example of this.

I'm not sure I would call them conclusions.

Don't they qualify?

Amputees with faith do not need to be healed.

Or to breath, for that matter.  It all depends on your goal.  If your goal is to live, then you need to breath.  If it's not, then you don't.  If you are an amputee who wants to walk with 2 natural legs, then you do need to be healed.  If you don't, then you don't.

I look forward to your protest signs against the frivolous usage of tax dollars developing and applying prosthetic limbs for faithful amputees.

Mental midgets who can not reason logically need to be healed.

Bye.

Given your faulty logic above, does this apply to you as well?
 1. Proper, modern English grammar would be appreciated here.  That would remove ambiguity, rather than promoting it.
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Offline euroclydon

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2012, 01:16:05 PM »
Is the post as ambiguous as you would have your readers believe?

P = Christ casts out devils by the Spirit of God

Q = the kingdom of God is come unto you

Offline JeffPT

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2012, 01:16:51 PM »
Here I am, once PrinceWalter of YouTube, and the Tormentor of NonStampCollector

Welcome euroclydon. 

I am a big fan of NonStampCollector, but I don't know your name.  It is good to have you here either way.

Would you care to elaborate a bit more on your P-> Q thing?  It's not very easy to understand, so could you please take a moment to expand on it.  It would be rude to attack first and ask questions later, though I will predict that the attacks on your position are imminent. 

My problem with it lies in the fact that earlier in Matthew 12, Jesus DOES cast out demons. 

Matthew 12:22 "Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see."

The point of Matthew 12:28 is to show the people that he is speaking to that the Kingdom of God IS 'come unto you'.  The raising of the dead, the casting out of demons, the healing of the sick and the blind are supposed to be the signs that God's kingdom on Earth is arriving.  So your 'THEN NOT Christ is casting out devils by the spirit of God is wrong.  He IS supposedly casting out demons and healing the sick. 

I don't know what that whole INQUIRY thing is, but that seems pretty bad too.  Your previous IF - THEN clause attempted to use words directly from Jesus as if one was contingent upon the other.  (IF I cast out demons, THEN the kingdom is here).  This new one is talking about should, which makes it not an IF THEN clause.  It's very confusing.  I think you're doing it wrong.   

You say 'IF the Spirit of God should be healing amputees (P), THEN LOGICALLY CONCLUDE that the Kingdom of God is among Us, and among us TODAY.'

I don't see how this is a valid IF THEN clause, but perhaps I am not as well versed in this as you are.  I've never taken a logic class, so perhaps you are.  At any rate, are you saying that because God is NOT Healing amputees, we know that the kingdom of God is not among us today?  That because we don't see God healing anybody at all, that we can safely conclude that the Kingdom of God isn't here?  If that is the case, then I have no problem with that.  God doesn't heal people.  At all, ever.  Else that would mean His kingdom would be here.  It's not. 

While you may use your theology to say that the reason amputees do not receive healing is because the kingdom hasn't come yet, the other possibility as to why God doesn't heal people is because he's not real. 

Please respond when you can. 

Thank you.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2012, 01:17:53 PM »
Quote
When we look at the healings that are attributed to gods, in every instance, it's something that people can do.

What do you mean?

Quote
If a god were really capable of healing people, why don't we see an situation irreversible by the actions of people become reversed - for example, an amputee regaining a missing limb?

Please re-word or provide example.

He means that Christian believers often do claim that people are being miraculously healed by their god.  Or that other things went their way by means of divine intervention (like getting a job, or a good parking place, or having a particular team win the Superbowl).  There is Biblical support for those who expect this sort of thing, too.

Yet, as BaalServant points out, the things that supposedly happen through divine intervention are always things that could have happened naturally.  People do get jobs.  People do get good parking places.  Teams do win the Superbowl.  Things that don't happen naturally, never seem to happen by divine intervention, either.  This site's question is "Why?"  There are only so many available answers.
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Offline euroclydon

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2012, 01:32:01 PM »

Welcome euroclydon. 

I am a big fan of NonStampCollector, but I don't know your name.  It is good to have you here either way.

Would you care to elaborate a bit more on your P-> Q thing?  It's not very easy to understand, so could you please take a moment to expand on it.  It would be rude to attack first and ask questions later, though I will predict that the attacks on your position are imminent. 

My apologies.

Just as it is wrong to assume that all Christians know the Bible, it is wrong of me to believe that all those who argue know how toargue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modus_tollens

Quote
My problem with it lies in the fact that earlier in Matthew 12, Jesus DOES cast out demons. 

Matthew 12:22 "Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see.

FACT: Time is the system of those sequential relations that any event has to any other, as past, present, or future; indefinite and continuous duration regarded as that in which events succeed one another.

FACT: verse 22 precedes the proclamation of MATT 21:43A <- edited to correct

FACT: The proclamation in verse 43A is just that: a proclamation of what "shall" happen. No time was given.

Quote
You say 'IF the Spirit of God should be healing amputees (P), THEN LOGICALLY CONCLUDE that the Kingdom of God is among Us, and among us TODAY.'

I don't see how this is a valid IF THEN clause,

You may remove the (P) and the (Q) from the inquiry. A question is not a statement, so there was no true if then conditional present.

I only wanted to suggest what is implied by the inquiry: nobody can make the conclusion logically.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 01:53:29 PM by euroclydon »

Offline euroclydon

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2012, 01:35:21 PM »
Quote
He means that Christian believers often do claim that people are being miraculously healed by their god.  Or that other things went their way by means of divine intervention (like getting a job, or a good parking place, or having a particular team win the Superbowl).  There is Biblical support for those who expect this sort of thing, too.

When you hear me make the claim, then you may require an answer of me.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2012, 01:41:36 PM »
Just as it is wrong to assume that all Christians know the Bible, it is wrong of me to believe that all those who argue know how toargue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modus_tollens

It's not the concepts of logic that are the source of unclarity in your OP.  It's your usage of them in the text, especially in your 2nd instance.  Have you considered the possibility that the miscommunication might have a cause other than everyone in your audience being ignorant of simple logic?

FACT: Time is the system of those sequential relations that any event has to any other, as past, present, or future; indefinite and continuous duration regarded as that in which events succeed one another.

What was the purpose of this line?  If someone is late for a meeting, do you think that (s)he needs to work on his or her punctuality, or that (s)he needs that and needs to have the concept of "time" explained?

If someone did this to you, wouldn't you feel that it's a bit arrogant and insulting?  Unjustifiably so?

EDIT:
When you hear me make the claim, then you may require an answer of me.

If you claim that the Bible's words are true, then you have already made that claim.  If you do not make that claim, nor claim that such events happen otherwise, then you are not the intended audience of the site's question in the first place.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 01:44:21 PM by Azdgari »
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Offline screwtape

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2012, 01:52:57 PM »
Quote
He means that Christian believers often do claim that people are being miraculously healed by their god.  Or that other things went their way by means of divine intervention (like getting a job, or a good parking place, or having a particular team win the Superbowl).  There is Biblical support for those who expect this sort of thing, too.

When you hear me make the claim, then you may require an answer of me.

If you are a xian that does not believe in miraculous healing, then the question does not pertain to you.  In either case, is it not a silver bullet that disproves the existence of deities.  It just points out some problems and conclusions that must be made if you believe in that sort of god.

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Offline euroclydon

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2012, 02:02:58 PM »
FACT: Time is the system of those sequential relations that any event has to any other, as past, present, or future; indefinite and continuous duration regarded as that in which events succeed one another.

What was the purpose of this line?  If someone is late for a meeting, do you think that (s)he needs to work on his or her punctuality, or that (s)he needs that and needs to have the concept of "time" explained?

If you had read the next two facts, It would have been clear that I am drawing him to a sequence of events.

Quote
If you claim that the Bible's words are true, then you have already made that claim.  If you do not make that claim, nor claim that such events happen otherwise, then you are not the intended audience of the site's question in the first place.

Non sequitur. He posted that there were claims of miraculous hearings.

If you want to discuss whether "the Bible's words are true", I respectfully suggest you begin another thread.

Offline euroclydon

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2012, 02:06:50 PM »
Quote
"If you are a xian that does not believe in miraculous healing...

That would be an oversimplification.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2012, 02:18:57 PM »
If you had read the next two facts, It would have been clear that I am drawing him to a sequence of events.

Umm...yeah, that was clear.  What wasn't clear is why you felt that he needed the concept of "time" explained to him in order to do this.  Unless you intended to come across as arrogant and insulting.  In that case, you were quite clear.

Non sequitur. He posted that there were claims of miraculous hearings.

If you want to discuss whether "the Bible's words are true", I respectfully suggest you begin another thread.

There was a lot of stuff in my post that you didn't respond to.  Is that because you understand and agree with it?

The site's question, and those claims he and I refer, are the context of the site's question.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 02:28:44 PM by Azdgari »
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Offline screwtape

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2012, 02:24:39 PM »
Quote
"If you are a xian that does not believe in miraculous healing...

That would be an oversimplification.

In what way?
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Offline euroclydon

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2012, 02:56:39 PM »
Quote
Umm...yeah, that was clear.  What wasn't clear is why you felt that he needed the concept of "time" explained to him in order to do this.  Unless you intended to come across as arrogant and insulting.  In that case, you were quite clear.

I what you say is true, why did he pretend to have a point by going backwards in time?

Quote
There was a lot of stuff in my post that you didn't respond to.  Is that because you understand and agree with it?

As for the rest, what you were reading is somebody's email to a responsible website which "bid farewell" with the use of non sequesters at the end.

If you're going read somebody else's mail, you deserve what you get.

Offline euroclydon

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2012, 02:59:01 PM »
Quote
"If you are a xian that does not believe in miraculous healing...

That would be an oversimplification.

In what way?

Define "xian".

"does not believe in miraculous hearings" -  by itself, this sounds like a total denial of miraculous healing without any qualifiers.

Offline Seppuku

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2012, 03:05:22 PM »

As for amputees, I will use the standard equation for the If-Then Conditional as prescribed by the rules of Symbolic Logic:

P -> Q

If P, THEN Q.

(I noticed there was no "Logic" section of your forum. Consider adding one.)

Matthew 12 28 But IF I cast out devils by the Spirit of God (P), THEN the kingdom of God is come unto you. (Q)

Matthew 21:43A The kingdom of God shall be taken from you (~Q)

Therefore, NOT Christ is casting out devils by the spirit of God. (~P)

His disciples were temporarily under the same directive:

Luke 10:9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.

INQUIRY: IF the Spirit of God should be healing amputees (P), THEN LOGICALLY CONCLUDE that the Kingdom of God is among Us, and among us TODAY.. (Q).

If you can't (~Q), then not P.

The problem isn't the text. The problem is human reasoning: it tends to be illogical in its "conclusions".

I'm not sure I would call them conclusions.

Amputees with faith do not need to be healed.

Mental midgets who can not reason logically need to be healed.

Bye.

This is actually side stepping from the actual quotes of the bible used to back the question 'Why Won't God Heal Amputees?' and trying to use a logical equation to avoid it.

Translated for ease of reading of the logical equation being used
IF 'P' Then 'Q'
If Q = False then P = false


Lets try one of these myself.

If the bible is true then God will answer the prayers of his believers
God doesn't answer your prayers.
Therefore the bible is not true.

Now, allow me to back up the initial statement. The bible says your prayer WILL answered, parts suggest only if you're a believer, so I'll accept it as, "God will answer the prayers of his believers)

Quote from: Matthew 21:21
I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.

Quote from: Matthew 7:7
Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.

Quote from: Matthew 17:20
For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you


The bible isn't passing any restrictions on what you ask for, it doesn't say you'll only get what you need.

If the statement:

"For every one who asks receives"(Q) is a false statement therefore the bible(P) is not true.
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Offline Azdgari

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #24 on: June 08, 2012, 03:05:37 PM »
I what you say is true, why did he pretend to have a point by going backwards in time?

This is akin to saying that someone who's late for a meeting is pretending not to be late, by going backward in time.  Would you do that in real life?

If not, then why are you doing it here?

As for the rest, what you were reading is somebody's email to a responsible website which "bid farewell" with the use of non sequesters at the end.

I was reading the letter you sent to be posted on this forum.  Unless you are not, in fact, the one who sent it...which would be odd, given the similarity of style and your responses in-thread.

If you're going read somebody else's mail, you deserve what you get.

I havn't been harmed.  Does the illogic of your E-mail depend on whether it is read by myself or Marshall Brain[1]?  That would be a cool trick.
 1. That is the name of this website's author.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 03:08:17 PM by Azdgari »
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.

Online jaimehlers

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #25 on: June 08, 2012, 03:08:06 PM »
Okay, so looking at this thread, it appears that euroclydon is trying to make a point with logic.  So I'll take that challenge.

If X then Y, or as he states, if P then Q.  Pretty straightforward.  And as he correctly states, if P ends up being false, Q must therefore be false.  Therefore, since P does not happen today (i.e., nobody can be proven to cast out devils), it disqualifies Q (that the kingdom of God is upon some other people).  The problem is that we have no proof that P was ever true to begin with.  There are statements in the Bible, but it is impossible to prove those to be true without outside evidence.

That is the point here.  He states near the end that if the spirit of God were to heal amputees, then the kingdom of God would be upon us (as a logical statement).  However, nobody has ever been able to show that the spirit of God actually heals amputees, therefore the status of P is indeterminate and presumed false until someone can produce evidence to show that it actually happens.

And finally, I will say this.  Nobody "needs" to be healed, but I think you would find very, very few people who would not jump at the chance to be healed if they could afford it.  So perhaps euroclydon needs to get out of his ivory tower and actually look at how these things actually work in the real world.  It's all well and good to dance around the subject with logic, but nothing he said actually shows that the kingdom of God is upon anyone, because it is dependent on some other thing (whether it is casting out devils, healing amputees, or whatever; take our pick).

Note:  You don't have room to complain about someone else reading this mail.  It's clearly written on the website page which lists the WWGHA e-mail address that some letters will be posted on the forums for other users to comment on.  Nobody's forcing you to respond to the comments of those users, but you don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to complaining about it.

Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2012, 03:36:11 PM »
Okay, so looking at this thread, it appears that euroclydon is trying to make a point with logic.  So I'll take that challenge.

If X then Y, or as he states, if P then Q.  Pretty straightforward.  And as he correctly states, if P ends up being false, Q must therefore be false.
No. Modus tollens goes:

1. If P then Q.
2. Not-Q.
3. Therefore, not-P.

In Euroclydon's argument, if I've understood it correctly, P = a miracle occurs, Q = God is near. so it runs:

1. If a miracle occurs, God is near.
2. God is not near.
3. Therefore, no miracle occurs.

Let's accept step 1, for the sake of the argument.

The argument fails at step 2. Euroclydon claims that God is not near on the basis of Matthew 21:43, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you

That seems to imply that God has gone away from everyone, but the verse is truncated; it actually goes on, and given to a nation producing the fruits of it.

So another Christian might well say that God is still near (to some people/another nation), and that miracles do occur.

What would you say to such a Christian, Euroclydon?

The atheists here would say, if miracles do occur, why won't God go near an amputee?
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 04:12:31 PM by Gnu Ordure »

Offline euroclydon

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2012, 03:42:01 PM »
Quote
This is akin to saying that someone who's late for a meeting is pretending not to be late, by going backward in time.  Would you do that in real life?

If not, then why are you doing it here?

You are confused. He used a verse that occurred before the proclamation that the kingdom would be removed in order to prove that Christ is still performing by the Spirit of God.

Do you understand?

Quote
I was reading the letter you sent to be posted on this forum.  Unless you are not, in fact, the one who sent it...which would be odd, given the similarity of style and your responses in-thread.

It is quite true that I sent the email.

It is quite true that I intended it to be read.

It is not true that any warning exists on the contact page that the data will be posted.

Therefore, logically conclude that I intended it to be posted...

Offline Azdgari

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Re: bigger than the amputee question [#2654]
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2012, 04:01:34 PM »
You are confused. He used a verse that occurred before the proclamation that the kingdom would be removed in order to prove that Christ is still performing by the Spirit of God.

Do you understand?

I get that.  Now please stop being disingenuous and answer what I asked.

Quote
I was reading the letter you sent to be posted on this forum.  Unless you are not, in fact, the one who sent it...which would be odd, given the similarity of style and your responses in-thread.

It is quite true that I sent the email.

It is quite true that I intended it to be read.

It is not true that any warning exists on the contact page that the data will be posted.

Therefore, logically conclude that I intended it to be posted...

O'rly?

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/god-contact.htm
Quote
You may email questions, suggestions and comments to:

        questions@whydoesntgodhealamputees.com

If you have questions, comments or suggestions about this web site or God's existence, you may also want to visit the forum. There is no way we can respond to all the emails that we receive each day. Therefore, some emails are posted anonymously on the forums so that readers may respond.

 :o
The highest moral human authority is copied by our Gandhi neurons through observation.