Pretty easily: 0. I need some reason to believe it is the case. I don't. That is like asking the probability leprechauns exist. 0. Mermaids. 0. Yeti. 0. Zeus. 0. yhwh. 0.
But you would admit yourself (if you are an agnostic atheist, not sure if you made that claim, but others have) that it is possible that there is a God, just incredibly unlikely, so how can you say 0?
I have to admit, I was not expecting this. I am at a loss for words. I expected so much more.
Assuming your ridiculous example were meaningful, I still do not see how that makes you believe in a god. In what way is god making this possible?
Well, I'm well aware its probably not the "evidence" you were looking for, but to me, that is a thing of beauty, involving compassion and conscious, things that I believe to be beyond the ability of science to understand.... I understand that you're simple response to this is why does this mean that there has to be a God? And in a physical sense, it does not.... But I really do believe that there are things in this world beyond our possible comprehension, and it just leads me to question how those things came to be...
One or both of us is misunderstanding the other's point. I'm pretty sure I understand yours. I think you are not understanding what I am saying.
Now I'm confused =/ lol
Then show your work. Draw the free body diagram. Show the forces at work. Show how impossible it is. I've already shown how fractally wrong you were about the elliptical orbit of the earth. If you are saying it is going to be thrown off, then you should understand it requires forces to do that. Show those forces and where they are coming from.
haha yes! Someone else who knows what a FBD! thank you! lol..... What was I fractally wrong about the elliptical orbit of the earth? And I understand now where you are coming from with the FBD thing, I need to think about that for a while.... A question that I just thought of, call me dumb for not knowing this, I don't really care, but what is the force that is keeping the earth from being sucked into the sun? I understand the force pulling the earth to the sun, but what is the opposing force?
And besides that, 2000 years is nothing in the scales you are talking about.
Well to your beliefs, yes, I just question how possible it is that over the millions of years that the earth has been in rotation around the sun, something hasn't happened resulting in the destruction of the earth.... Another thing, I'm sure other theists have brought this up, my knowledge of the big bang theory is pretty spotty, so bare with me here, but the whole idea is expansion, am I right? I heard somewhere along the way from someone else that if you do the math of the expansion theory, and go back in time, the earth would have been in contact with the sun or something like that, have you guys ever heard this claim?
What you are calling "controlled" is simple, quantifiable probability. And what you are saying about it - that the probability skyrockets through the roof - is that outcome X - the game we just played - was exquisitely improbable. And by the logic you are using, that game must have been controlled by a god. If it was not, then in what way does that improbability imply a god?
huh? lol I got lost..... Are you talking about the cards or about the universe?
Your premise is wrong in two ways. First, the probability of each particle being in the position it is in is 1. They are in fact where they are. There is no other position any particle could have been in at that moment. The universe in which we live follows predictable patterns, which we call "laws". And these laws dictate how matter and energy behave. You study these laws.
These laws become unpredictable when creatures with free will come into play, would you agree that there is an infinite amount of positions that my body could be in at any given time? I understand that if you freeze my body, then examine the particles inside my body, you can technically put a number on the probability of them being where they are relative to my body, but when you consider the infinite amount of positions that my body could be in at any given time (which has already become infinite), then add the probability on the particles inside of me (making it more infinite? lol), there is no number you can put it on. This is what I meant, not really sure where I was going with it, just trying to say that there could be things in this world that exceed infinite (won't happen) probability.
Another thing I just thought of, is there a limit on how small a measurement of position (or length I guess) can be? I mean, I guess what I'm asking is can you honestly claim there is? And if there isn't a limit, is there any limit as to how many particles there could be in the universe (considering the possibility of there being particles even smaller than the ones we are aware of right now)
So you should understand that if a cue ball is at a given point in space at a given time, it is because everything that happened to it prior to that moment - force, momentum, velocity, friction etc - dictated it and it could not possibly have been any other way. Similarly, if we stop time and observe the position of particle xyz, the probability of it being anywhere else in the entire universe is 0. It had to be where it is because of the forces that had acted on it prior.
I would like to believe that I am not a cue ball, maybe an odd ball, but not a cue ball =D But keep in mind the cue ball does not have free will to move where it wants (at least I think, otherwise pool could be incredibly biased =P)
Otherwise, if what you are saying were true - that particles could otherwise have been at an infinite number of points at a given time - then particles would appear and disappear and reappear randomly throughout the universe. Momentum would be meaningless. Newton's first law would not exist. Then the probability of any given particle being where it is at any given moment truly would be incomprehensibly small.
Well, I think there isn't much more that I can add to this than what I said above...
Second, trying to put a number on the likelihood of positions of particles is not uncontrolled. It is unknowable. This is one of the major problems xians have when they talk about the probability of the right atoms combining to make the right molecules. Their estimates of probability are ALWAYS guesses and have no basis for them. They usually treat each atom as being as likely to bond with any other atom and that is not the case.
Just something I've wondered for a while, does science attempt to break down the probability of a human being coming to be what he/she is today?
This is what I am talking about. You are taking the result, the lottery winner, and looking at it as the target, the desired outcome, and trying to estimate the odds. The odds are 1. She won the lottery. It is a done deal. I already exist. There were a finite number of sperm involved and one of them had to have made it. There is no miracle there.
Not calling that the miracle, I'm calling the miracle everything that made you who you are, from your life, from your parents lives, from their parents lives before, etc., all the way back to whatever you claim the beginning of everything is.... I am not just talking about the probability that you came to be, I am talking about the probability that you came to be the person that you are today.
To get me as the desired outcome again? Incredibly unlikely. But I was not specified.
Well do you think it is possible for two people to share the exact same subconscious?
The difference between what you are talking about and reality is this: Take the deck of cards. Shuffle it. Write down the order. Is the order improbable? yes. But there it is. It is done. It is not a miracle, because some outcome is necessary.
True, but can we put a FBD on a subconscious?
Shuffle again. And again. This time, try to get the original shuffle. Super improbable. Your deck will wear out before you get that exact order again. That is looking backward and trying to say it was impossibly improbable.
So then you would say that you are not unique, in the sense that although it might be highly improbable for you to be conceived again, it is possible? It is possible for someone else to be born with the exact subconscious as you (could think of it as you guys probably being able to predict literally everything you would do).... I'm just not so sold on the idea that this is possible...