Author Topic: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?  (Read 16168 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline sun_king

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 388
  • Darwins +25/-0
  • Gender: Male
  • We see things not as they are, but as we are
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #290 on: June 14, 2012, 10:28:44 AM »

No, you have a clear choice. The only information you have is all I want to give you in the hypothetical. You notice how you didn't complain about "magically"? That shows me you understand what a hypothetical is. You simply don't like my hypothetical because you are like the others - you believe, because you are now an atheist, you believe you would do anything to avoid worshiping a god, so you wiggle and complain and ask for more "information" and quibble and avoid answering truthfully in front of your peers and do anything you have to in front of your keyboard, even say you would go to hell rather than do what you know you would do to avoid it - worship your little ass off to get out of eternal torture.
Feeling better that you told me what I will do? I guess that was the intent of the thread, to be comforted by declaring that everyone will follow your lead and be on knees when the big boss takes charge. You just cannot accept that anyone else will take a stance that you wouldn't? Ohh, I use a keyboard, so I have to Worship... Wonderful reasoning.

HAL, you do not know me. I dont need to explain why I made that statement, right?
Quote
If you don't like the choices given then you have another choice - don't attempt an answer.
Sure your highness, its your precious toy, your rules. Was just curious why you bother to ask everyone when you knew what everyone would do. My mistake, apologies, won't repeat. And please dont bother to type a reply for this either, I may choose not to answer. Oh! you already know that...
Quote
No, your person can't ride a beam of light. That link is totally irrelevant to what I'm talking about. I'll get back to that later because it illustrates how hypotheticals can be used. Hypotheticals that otherwise are impossible to set up in reality.
I would have said it was mentioned in a lighter sense, but you already know what I will be saying, after all I am having a keyboard.

Offline HAL

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5014
  • Darwins +98/-17
  • Gender: Male
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #291 on: June 14, 2012, 12:34:03 PM »
Feeling better that you told me what I will do? I guess that was the intent of the thread, to be comforted by declaring that everyone will follow your lead and be on knees when the big boss takes charge. You just cannot accept that anyone else will take a stance that you wouldn't? Ohh, I use a keyboard, so I have to Worship... Wonderful reasoning.

HAL, you do not know me. I dont need to explain why I made that statement, right?

I know enough to know what you will do, unless you haven't told me you are insane.

Are you human?: Y

Are you insane? I'll assume for the time being - no.

If these two items are true you would not choose eternal torture.

The reason you proclaim your heroic and brazen stance is because you are not taking the hypothetical seriously and/or you are embarrassed, because you are an atheist now, to admit that you would worship god to get out of torture. Any sane person will do this - yes I believe that's a fact. If you don't like that then I'll take note of it, but it doesn't change my mind as to why you are typing out the statements that you are.


Offline Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12526
  • Darwins +324/-84
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #292 on: June 14, 2012, 03:28:36 PM »
There's something that's troubling to me after partaking in  this discussion.  I've come a long way from my religious belief held for over 40 adult years.  I wouldn't say I'm an atheist (I still can't get my mind around the existence of a  beating human heart without some kind of maker)  but I've rejected much of what I previously believed.    I read here and discuss to learn and fine tune my position.

What bothers me about this discussion.  From what I've read on this forum, most atheists say they would believe in a god if someone could present real evidence.  After reading this discussion, I wonder if many atheist would accept evidence of the supernatural if it was shown?  Let me explain.

Forget the OP and the hypotheticals presented.  I'll bring it down to real life with only one hypothetical.  You don't become unconscious or die from the torture.

Suppose a murdering dictator fires up a red hot griddle.  He gives you two choices. 

1.  You bow down to me and tell me I'm great

or:

2.  I place your naked body on this red hot griddle.

No human being would last 2 minutes burning on this griddle.  I'm telling you straight away...Within seconds, every human being would say:  "Stop the burning, I'll do as you say."

A human being can only tolerate a certain amount of pain and trauma and this is why the brain stops working and shuts down.  If this shut down mechanism does not shut down, every human being would succumb to the pain.

Why am I troubled?  Because we still have posters, here, who are trying to get around the obvious.  This troubles me because I wonder how many would really accept evidence of the supernatural if it were given?  And then I'm taken back to the words of Jesus when Dives asked if he could warn his family about hell:
"They wouldn't believe if even the dead came back".

Before you reply, please understand I'm not saying this proves Jesus was correct.  I'm simply saying that, for someone who is here with a completely open mind, it's troubling to see some atheists running from something which is a certain fact.

I know I stated I wouldn't respond anymore but this is exactly what Hal did: he asked a question, and then stated what would happen, and in doing so answered the question for everyone. You're doing the same thing.

1. Ask the question.
2. Let others respond.

You're doing that. You're answering for them based on the description of the torture. You think the person who would choose the torture and not give in to such kissing ass instead doesn't know what the torture may entail?

It's irrelevant what it entails: I think they'd get the gist of it by the little snippet given. Oh, and to answer the question: I choose the torture. I don't kiss ass, unless it's from the girl I'm currently into, and she says it's okay for me to do so but even then...

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Samothec

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 585
  • Darwins +49/-2
  • Gender: Male
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #293 on: June 14, 2012, 03:29:14 PM »
I know enough to know what you will do, unless you haven't told me you are insane.
Are you human?: Y
Are you insane? I'll assume for the time being - no.
If these two items are true you would not choose eternal torture.

Again you proceed from a flawed origin. You clearly do not understand the depths of guilt, lack of self-esteem, and other negative human conditions that cause people to seek out self-destructive situations. One need not be insane to seek pain and suffering, one only needs to already be tortured by one's own mind and believe that you deserve it.

You insistance that everyone will do as you believe borders on preaching IMO. It might be good for you to take a step back - stop reading and posting in this thread for a day then start at the begining looking at it as if someone else wrote it. I suspect you will be embarassed by your behavior in this thread.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

Offline flapdoodle64

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 437
  • Darwins +50/-1
  • Gender: Male
    • My Movie Reviews
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #294 on: June 14, 2012, 03:44:33 PM »
Agree you can't predict what 100% of people would do, and there's a certain pointlessness to Hal's arguing it out so long...

Yet I think some people might be deliberately yanking on him, too.

Of course, that't the nature of the net.

Offline HAL

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5014
  • Darwins +98/-17
  • Gender: Male
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #295 on: June 14, 2012, 04:34:44 PM »
Oh, and to answer the question: I choose the torture. I don't kiss ass, unless it's from the girl I'm currently into,

You just admitted you can and will kiss ass under the right conditions, so again, IMHO your just an incessant bullshit artist who got loose on the forum. Welcome to the Bottomless Pit. Have a cigar.

You clearly do not understand the depths of guilt, lack of self-esteem, and other negative human conditions that cause people to seek out self-destructive situations. One need not be insane to seek pain and suffering, one only needs to already be tortured by one's own mind and believe that you deserve it.

That's just as easily termed insanity also. As the definition below says, not all acts like that are, but I think I'm on solid ground calling it at least temporary insanity. Anyone confronting the reality of a deity especially atheists, and choosing to engage an eternity of torture as a method of self-destruction could very easily be looked at as at least temporary insanity, and I've said all along that is a way that I agreed some people could choose eternal torture. I think I'm on solid ground here.

Quote
Insanity, craziness or madness is a spectrum of behaviors characterized by certain abnormal mental or behavioral patterns. Insanity may manifest as violations of societal norms, including a person becoming a danger to themselves or others, though not all such acts are considered insanity. In modern usage insanity is most commonly encountered as an informal unscientific term denoting mental instability, or in the narrow legal context of the insanity defense. In the medical profession the term is now avoided in favor of diagnoses of specific mental disorders; the presence of delusions or hallucinations is broadly referred to as psychosis.[1] When discussing mental illness in general terms, "psychopathology" is considered a preferred descriptor.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insanity

Quote
You insistance that everyone will do as you believe borders on preaching IMO. It might be good for you to take a step back - stop reading and posting in this thread for a day then start at the begining looking at it as if someone else wrote it. I suspect you will be embarassed by your behavior in this thread.

You are entitled to your opinon, but I disagree that I'd be wrong if this were to actually occur.

Offline HAL

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5014
  • Darwins +98/-17
  • Gender: Male
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #296 on: June 14, 2012, 04:38:33 PM »
Yet I think some people might be deliberately yanking on him, too.

Of course, that't the nature of the net.

Oh no, ya think! It's always been fun to attack authority figures, Hell I do it all the time.

Let me try to make this as dirt fucking simple as I can. This doesn't effectively change the original hypothetical[1] but perhaps it will let you think about it more clearly.

A Hypothetical

Humanity, including you, accepts that Biblegod has been proven to exist. Suddenly find yourself in a room with two buttons. The sign says -

"Press the red button to worship god. Press the blue button to accept eternal torture.

You have 5 minutes to press a button - after 5 minutes and not having pressed a button, the system defaults to a press of the blue button.

Your choice is irrevocable.

You now have 5 minutes left"

That's all you get. That's all the information you have in the hypothetical. Complaining like you all are doing, sidestepping, wriggling, asking to have information that isn't coming, proclaiming how many cigars you have burned into your skin, making brazen statements about some impossible grandstanding is not going to get you anywhere. There you sit and there you are faced with the buttons and no more information. There is nobody to ask a question of. This is the hypothetical in it's entirety.

Press your button.
 1. 
If Biblegod was shown 100% to exist, i'd be happy to burn foever (sic) in Hell.

Offline Zankuu

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 2112
  • Darwins +132/-3
  • Gender: Male
    • I am a Forum Guide
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #297 on: June 14, 2012, 04:46:49 PM »
*reluctantly presses the blue button*

On the brighter side, maybe I'll eventually compartmentalize the self-loathing and hatred I'll have for my weakness after pressing it.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline Kimberly

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1044
  • Darwins +78/-1
  • Gender: Female
    • I am a Forum Guide
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #298 on: June 14, 2012, 04:52:13 PM »
I'd be curious to see a poll posted. Red or Blue; since it's anonymous those who have been afraid to speak can cast their vote and we can see how many of us are "insane".
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline HAL

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5014
  • Darwins +98/-17
  • Gender: Male
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #299 on: June 14, 2012, 04:54:15 PM »
I'd be curious to see a poll posted. Red or Blue; since it's anonymous those who have been afraid to speak can cast their vote and we can see how many of us are "insane".

Good idea. Do you want to start the poll. I'll comment in the thread but I promise in your thread I'll be well behaved! Let's see what happens.

Offline Kimberly

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1044
  • Darwins +78/-1
  • Gender: Female
    • I am a Forum Guide
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #300 on: June 14, 2012, 05:06:51 PM »
I'd be curious to see a poll posted. Red or Blue; since it's anonymous those who have been afraid to speak can cast their vote and we can see how many of us are "insane".

Good idea. Do you want to start the poll. I'll comment in the thread but I promise in your thread I'll be well behaved! Let's see what happens.

Ok BRB
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline Kimberly

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1044
  • Darwins +78/-1
  • Gender: Female
    • I am a Forum Guide
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #301 on: June 14, 2012, 05:15:50 PM »
POLL

If a moderator locks the thread can people still cast votes? I really don't think we need two threads of people discussing this.
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline flapdoodle64

  • Graduate
  • ****
  • Posts: 437
  • Darwins +50/-1
  • Gender: Male
    • My Movie Reviews
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #302 on: June 14, 2012, 05:22:26 PM »
I am in the category that would push the red button of course.  And I think most people would do likewise. 

The problem with this scenario is the the self that is able to push the button may not be able to concieve of eternal torture, may minimize the expected effects, may be unable to imagine the consequences.  Yet, like an 18 year old, may also THINK he can imagine the consequences and may THINK he knows what he is doing. 

Note that in our society, we let people age 17 and above join the armed forces, which means they are effectively forfieting many of their constitutional rights...depending on circumstances, possibly for the rest of their lives!  (Due to human brain development, we shouldn't let someone to forfiet basic rights until they are at least 21 or in many cases, age 25.  Note that as people age past 18, the rate at which they join the military starts to decrease...)

Yet every year, enough young people are willing to forfiet their rights that our armed forces are sufficient to maintain a permanent war.  Despite the widespread knowledge of abominable conditions in the US war zones, record high troop suicides, poor care from the VA, etc. 

The point is this: the moment of decision is prior to the time frame of the consequences.  The self who makes the choice is not the same as the self would be after the self has been tortured a bit.  And after the torture begins, it's too late, because the irrevocable decision has been made. 

We can predict that most people would choose red, and we can predict that of those opting for torture, since we're talking eternity, 100% would eventually regret the decision and beg for death or mercy.  But given human nature, there could easily be some who opt for torture. 

Some might opt for torture, thinking that by doing so, they'd be yanking Biblegod's chain. 
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 05:28:49 PM by flapdoodle64 »

Online jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4954
  • Darwins +566/-17
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #303 on: June 14, 2012, 05:27:40 PM »
Here's another way to look at this.  No matter which option people picked, they'd end up being royally dissatisfied with it before long.  I'd like to remind people of that Twilight Zone episode, a nice place to visit, where someone passed on to the afterlife and got all of his wishes granted no matter what they were.

Offline HAL

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5014
  • Darwins +98/-17
  • Gender: Male
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #304 on: June 14, 2012, 05:35:44 PM »
Good analysis flapdoodle. Very well written.

Some might opt for torture, thinking that by doing so, they'd be yanking Biblegod's chain.

That's sounds like Nam's approach, and while beforehand it sounds like you're a kick-ass son of a bitch god-chain-yanking hero figure, he's going to quickly realize it wasn't worth it if he did it. But that's just his internet persona, I am still of the opinion that he'd be smarter than to attempt such a foolish act in reality.

But like the last two posts, good insight. I will try to be more forgiving of other's opinions from now on also. That's my attempt to keep the discussion going.

Thank you.


Offline OnlyClarity

  • Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 18
  • Darwins +8/-1
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #305 on: June 14, 2012, 06:20:41 PM »
That's sounds like Nam's approach, and while beforehand it sounds like you're a kick-ass son of a bitch god-chain-yanking hero figure, he's going to quickly realize it wasn't worth it if he did it. But that's just his internet persona, I am still of the opinion that he'd be smarter than to attempt such a foolish act in reality.

But like the last two posts, good insight. I will try to be more forgiving of other's opinions from now on also. That's my attempt to keep the discussion going.

Thank you.

I respectfully disagree that we can know for sure each person's motives for why they make their choice of eternal torture.  While it may seem to you HAL/others that Nam wants to be perceived as an "internet tough guy", I can at least speak for myself and inform you that it is the last thing I attempted to come across as.  You are free to think anything you want about those who disagree with your opinions, but that alone simply does not make your assumptions about people true.  I'll even concede to you that it may very well seem insane to do so, but heck, both options blow serious ass, right? 

Thank you for all of your replies throughout the debate - I do get a strong vibe that you at least care to share your opinions with us.  I'm glad we can have a meaningful discussion on nearly any topic, and agree to respect each other regardless of the opposing opinions.  Well, now that I typed that, I guess I can't speak for anyone but myself when I say that I still respect all of you as people with varying opinions.  I can only hope that this is a mutual feeling here.

*Afterthought*

I continued to think about this "eternal torture" a bit more.  Would anyone care to take a stab at this question I had for myself:

How does one have any thoughts at all while being tortured in a matter unfathomable (according to certain Bible verses I have heard mentioned) to us now?  It really made me wonder..so I thought I'd share the question with you all.  Would our mind have any capacity to do anything at all other than interpreting the electrical signals screaming pain/suffering?  I have no idea what the answer is, but I think it is quite the question.  Let me know what you all think.  Hope you all have a good night/day depending on your location.

Offline jetson

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 7280
  • Darwins +170/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Meet George Jetson!
    • Jet Blog
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #306 on: June 14, 2012, 06:21:59 PM »
I guess I picked the wrong button!  I don't know, i feel like worshiping an asshat is never really worth it.  But then again, i have no idea what eternal torture is like.  How would it be any different than eternal bliss?

Offline HAL

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5014
  • Darwins +98/-17
  • Gender: Male
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #307 on: June 14, 2012, 06:25:15 PM »
I guess I picked the wrong button!  I don't know, i feel like worshiping an asshat is never really worth it. 

But there's s stark choice in front of you.

Quote
But then again, i have no idea what eternal torture is like. 

And you really want to find out without being able to revoke your choice?

Quote
How would it be any different than eternal bliss?

I'll take my chances with eternal bliss. You really mean you wouldn't?

Offline jetson

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 7280
  • Darwins +170/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Meet George Jetson!
    • Jet Blog
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #308 on: June 14, 2012, 06:32:28 PM »
I suppose when push comes to shove, I'm sort of taking the eternal bliss route right now by avoiding my true passions and working for the man.  Sometimes I feel like a coward in that respect.  And I desperately want my children to chase a passion, instead of a paycheck. 

I have always said that if a god was real, there would be no atheists.  If a god such as bible god truly presented itself to me, and gave me the choice, I would likely choose eternal bliss.  Damn, I hate the thought though.

Online jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4954
  • Darwins +566/-17
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #309 on: June 14, 2012, 08:41:36 PM »
Who says that it's "eternal bliss"?

Offline jetson

  • Administrator
  • *******
  • Posts: 7280
  • Darwins +170/-6
  • Gender: Male
  • Meet George Jetson!
    • Jet Blog
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #310 on: June 14, 2012, 09:20:16 PM »
Who says that it's "eternal bliss"?

Well, the whole thought experiment is hard for me to ever think of seriously.

Offline Samothec

  • Postgraduate
  • *****
  • Posts: 585
  • Darwins +49/-2
  • Gender: Male
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #311 on: June 15, 2012, 12:31:43 AM »
Who says that it's "eternal bliss"?

Well, the whole thought experiment is hard for me to ever think of seriously.

I found it very difficult to answer because of the IMO flawed premise. While I advised HAL to take a step back and look at it again, I managed to do just that. I realized several things upon looking at it as a puzzle with hidden information.

One of the choices is "burn forever". That coupled with Biblegod means it is the wrathful god - not the loving one - and both heaven and hell will be insufferable. There will not be any eternal bliss. I still stand by my choice of "heaven" because I will be closer to Biblegod and that will present opportunities.

HAL, if I'm running around in heaven killing people like Kent Hovind (subject of another thread) or Pat Robertson, will I get thrown out of heaven? And will they stay dead?      :angel:     (trying on the halo)
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

Offline HAL

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5014
  • Darwins +98/-17
  • Gender: Male
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #312 on: June 15, 2012, 07:14:09 AM »
One of the choices is "burn forever". That coupled with Biblegod means it is the wrathful god - not the loving one - and both heaven and hell will be insufferable. There will not be any eternal bliss. I still stand by my choice of "heaven" because I will be closer to Biblegod and that will present opportunities.

Wait - I didn't say you were dead in the hypothetical and it's obvious you aren't. The choice is "worship god or eternal torture". The choice wasn't "Worship god to get to Heaven or eternal torture."

I said that Biblegod was proven to exist and you had to choose to worship it or accept eternal torture. That means while you are alive you worship it by doing whatever it requires as actions for worship. and then when dead you don't get eternal torture. What you get for worshiping it is not part of the hypothetical. If you choose not to worship a proven deity, then when you die you get eternal torture. That's why I said you would be insane to not worship a proven deity. That's why I claim people like Nam are idiots[1] If you were already dead you wouldn't have a choice. If you were already dead there wouldn't be a need for a proof, or buttons. If you die you automatically find out if it's real or not. C'mon people!


Quote
HAL, if I'm running around in heaven killing people like Kent Hovind (subject of another thread) or Pat Robertson, will I get thrown out of heaven?

You can't kill people who are already dead.

Quote
And will they stay dead?      :angel:     (trying on the halo)

You can't kill people who are already dead.
 1. I'm not an Admin anymore - I stepped down because after so many years I am burned out. I also did it to be able to call idiots on the forum idiots without having a dual role as a rule enforcer :)
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 07:15:43 AM by HAL »

Offline gonegolfing

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1224
  • Darwins +23/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • God ?...Don't even get me started !
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #313 on: June 15, 2012, 07:45:07 AM »

Blue, over at the Poll.

I've known about the doctrine of Hell my entire life. It's the doctrine that kept me in the most during the time I was a theist.

Aside from the fact that this thread is unnecessary and a nonstarter as I pointed out earlier, if I must, then for me Blue is actually the only option.....I've always hated the doctrine whether as a theist or atheist. It's the most disgusting idea that the human mind has imagined.

"If" however, I were to find out that bible-god does in fact exist, how could that change that fact of the disgust and coercivemess of the doctrine? It doesn't..and so it wouldn't change my stance on it either.

Remember, believing that god exists is not the same as worshiping it. I can fully understand that a god exists and yet have no changed feelings about its characters and actions. I must believe in it, but can still also hate it and it's doctrines. This is where the real battle begins for most. However for me, I can quite confidently choose the penalty because of my complete refusal to be guilty of hypocrisy at the end of the day. As a one on one, I will simply not let a god away with its vile behaviour and mockery of my stance against its crime of death by torture.

To cave in to the doctrine does not show the strength of the doctrine but the mental weakness of the one caving. I refuse to be that weak when faced even with the most drastic of threats. The whole doctrine is extortion at its worst.... This god must be taught a lesson.... My torture is its torture as well--knowing that an individual rejected its demand of worship and with great courage stood their ground and took the penalty.

Taking the punishment at this point is the highest form of individual morality that one can practice. Knowing that I took the moral high ground and rejected the extortion tactic, would in my mind be the eternal balm that's needed to endure the penalty. I'll take it.

But of course, we don't have to worry about these bizarre and nasty human imaginations--so enough said.

 ;)

"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

Offline Nam

  • Laureate
  • *********
  • Posts: 12526
  • Darwins +324/-84
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm on the road less traveled...
  • User is on moderator watch listWatched
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #314 on: June 15, 2012, 08:01:34 AM »
POLL

If a moderator locks the thread can people still cast votes? I really don't think we need two threads of people discussing this.

If you actually had one that wasn't as flawed as Hal's topic, which I thought about posting, as a poll but can't do that now.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline HAL

  • Professor
  • ********
  • Posts: 5014
  • Darwins +98/-17
  • Gender: Male
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #315 on: June 15, 2012, 08:07:12 AM »
Taking the punishment at this point is the highest form of individual morality that one can practice. Knowing that I took the moral high ground and rejected the extortion tactic, would in my mind be the eternal balm that's needed to endure the penalty. I'll take it.

Golly - that's so impressive. If we only had more people like you the world would be so much better off. Well I'll try to think of you every so often while your intestines are being pulled out of your mouth by rats and your toes are being cut off and cooked to feed to you in the next torture session.

Offline gonegolfing

  • Reader
  • ******
  • Posts: 1224
  • Darwins +23/-2
  • Gender: Male
  • God ?...Don't even get me started !
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #316 on: June 15, 2012, 08:53:11 AM »
Taking the punishment at this point is the highest form of individual morality that one can practice. Knowing that I took the moral high ground and rejected the extortion tactic, would in my mind be the eternal balm that's needed to endure the penalty. I'll take it.

Golly - that's so impressive. If we only had more people like you the world would be so much better off. Well I'll try to think of you every so often while your intestines are being pulled out of your mouth by rats and your toes are being cut off and cooked to feed to you in the next torture session.

 ;D

Now now Hal... don't get all cutesy with me you old whipper snapper !   ;D

By the way....that's some pretty impressive torture techniques you've got...You should try and hook up with god and get some of them implemented..... Hell!..he may even put you on staff !

My last on this one  ;)

Peace



"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

Online jaimehlers

  • Fellow
  • *******
  • Posts: 4954
  • Darwins +566/-17
  • Gender: Male
  • WWGHA Member
Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #317 on: June 15, 2012, 09:10:31 AM »
Actually, this reminds me of the virtual reality world in Fallout 3, where you have everyone in stasis capsules and their minds are all hooked up to a computer.  It's a pretty similar situation, since the sysadmin has godlike powers and it would be fairly easy to block access to the system from inside the VR world.

I wonder how many people would be brave enough to pick eternal torture if they had to spend, oh, an hour or so watching the people who already picked it writhing in agony before making the choice?  Not to demean anyone's bravery, but I don't think there would be many who could.  One of the flaws in HAL's choice matrix is that while you do have proof of biblegod according to the hypothetical, you don't have proof of hell before you make the decision.

Offline meo

Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #318 on: June 15, 2012, 10:51:06 AM »
I don't exactly think it's the "flaw" of Hal's choice matrix. It's more like people are focusing on the wrong things? It's like people are asking "how do you know the apple can fly", or say "it depends if the apple was flying towards me or not", when what I asked was "What would you do if you see a flying apple?".

I think what Hal is asking here what would you do if you can really choose between 2 choices, and he has already covered that when he said "worship", it meant through actions, not with thoughts, so there is no such thing as "I can't worship him since I can't love him so there is no choice for me",  but instead people still answer with "there's no choice for me because I can't worship it"?

I have to agree with Hal that people who choose torture are unrealistic, or does not get the picture of eternal torment.

It's probably easier to ask, what if, a crazy dangerous asshole kidnapped you, and tells you that you either kiss his ass 3 times a day for 7 days, or let him and his buddies rape you over and over again for 7 days, while cutting a piece of your skin off and a bit of your finger/toe off bit by bit while doing so for 7 days?
How many would choose the raping over ass kissing? If you think you won't crave in for even just for 7 days, what makes you think you would for eternity?

I believe that people would, out of their impulse and stupidity choose torture, but I also believe that everyone of them will give in and regret it sooner or later.