Yeah, tell that to the people who come back from such atrocities, and ask them if it has ended for them; especially those who are reminded of it every day.
But the physical torture does end and I am sure they are happy that they are free from it and I am sure they don't want to go through it ever again.
I think so. Some of them lived to be old, 60-80 years, yet they endured such torture. To say it wasn't torture is to belittle them, I feel. Some were whipped on a regular basis. So, why is it that they can endure but I couldn't or no one else couldn't.
I'm not saying it isn't. Also, 'regular basis' is not non-stop, that's another part where you cannot draw a comparison.
Also, one difference between any situation (I've already mentioned) in our finite existence and eternal torture is that there is no hope, there is no way out, there's no end, it doesn't stop, nobody can save you from it once it begins, otherwise it ceases to be eternal.
You, and Hal, have no idea what a single person can endure, and for how long.
Nor do you and that's kind of the point.
But the difference is: we know our minds and body, and you're basically saying we don't.
And you've yet to show a single example where you've been tested to know what you can endure and how you'd endure it. But even then, to say you can endure constant torture for even as little as a googolplex years and still feel it's better than being a sell out is a pretty bold claim and I don't think you've really had anything to back it up. How can you possibly know until you've come to experience such a thing? And it is impossible for us to do so. Why? Because we only live for an average of 80 years and we don't even know if any kind of hell exists, let alone acquire test data.
We couldn't fathom such a thing because there's no real test to show evidence of any of it
Again, this is the point. We'd have to make the decision without any of those tests to know how far we could take it, how far we could endure it. Yes, I'd suggest every man has his breaking point, just because there are men who have endured does not mean they have a breaking point, it just means it hasn't been reached. We have to consider what the psychological effects here, we have a basic fight or flight response system and when faced with constant threat that's our operating system. Our brain has coping systems, but that doesn't mean you're psychologically sound. You're looking at anxiety and then you're looking at depression and with those in mind there's doors open to other psychological effects. There's an eternity for them to manifest, to break you down. You may even get to that stage where you beg for forgiveness because it's a way out. In essence, taking the 'flight' response.
If knowing there is a god and we know which one and which version then pascal's wager does apply. I hate it and it does pain me to say it, but I don't think I'd take the 'torture' option just to find out I don't have the constitution I thought I had to withstand eternal torture. It's horrible thought having to kiss up to this deity, you might have seen in my posts my general dislike of bible-God and how horrific I think he is and even if given the opportunity (if he existed) I'd like to see him dead. Kissing up to that is a horrific idea. But I'd know that by giving in I'd have have plenty of time to come to terms with it. I'd already be self deluded by the time I've come to heaven. I'd probably find people I'd enjoy heaven with and find much to help me forget that I sold myself out. If the gift of heaven is eternal bliss, if that is the reward I receive then my initial conflicts of interest would pass. It even feels dirty saying it, but I feel that it is the honest thing for this hypothetical situation.
I don't. So I have that lack of knowledge that means I could take the choice.
You have the knowledge that those who have suffered torture would avoid it, yet you'd take the choice to dive straight in? I'm not sure that you would. You know that you're up against an all-powerful, all-knowing being who is infinite and that he wishes to give you eternal torture, because in this hypothetical situation it has been revealed to you. You may not know what its like, but when it comes to that fight-or-flight response, I am sure you know what fighting means for you, even if you lack the experience of what it may even be like or can even comprehend the extent of it. You don't have to have been hit by a bus to know that when one's coming your way that your "fight" response is not a good idea. Subconsciously you'll know this too, which is why your natural response is to 'flight', if you wish to commit suicide you may try to override your subconscious to go for a 'fight' response.
And of course, once we know there's a god and we know which god and which version, suddenly pascal's wager starts to make sense. Are you going to want to take the risk to find out if you can take it? Without knowing your own abilities and without knowing your own thresholds?
