Author Topic: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?  (Read 15629 times)

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Offline HAL

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I want to thank Nam for this topic. Here's what Nam says about it -

If Biblegod was shown 100% to exist, i'd be happy to burn foever (sic) in Hell.

I think that's a ridiculous claim - that you have enough knowledge of the consequences of eternal Hell to make such an arrogant claim. As I said - talk on the Internets is cheap. When it comes to reality (if this were true) who here would choose to go to Hell and burn forever?

I wouldn't.

Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2012, 08:30:22 AM »
That's a difficult question for me. I think that it would be difficult to embrace a God who is so cruel and jealous and hateful. At the same time self preservation would incline me towards worship. If we all get into heaven, maybe we can overthrow him. Hell, he can't even beat iron chariots. And I'm sure those harps could be made into some wicked weapons. You could easily garrote an angel with a harp string. Celestial revolution, anyone?
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline kin hell

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2012, 08:34:09 AM »
So  does that mean you will be able to deny any sense of morality you may have displayed on this planet and now reallyworship biblegod even though if it exists as biblegod, then it must be the evil incarnate that the bible makes it out to be?

Because worship doesn't mean lip service, or resented lip service, or "if I don't appear to be worshipping I'll go to hell", it means worship.

As in, you will ring peans of praise upon the very thought of biblegod in his heaven, you will sit at it's metaphorical foot and focus your entire being on it so as to laud its existence, you will never have a thought outside of your "slaved" attention to the business of worshipping this evil god.


It seems a very limited false sort of worship that exists only because the alternative is too horrible to contemplate.

And what a pathetically needy god, if that sort of worship has value to it.




« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 08:35:55 AM by kin hell »
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

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Online One Above All

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2012, 08:34:22 AM »
I would burn. I wouldn't enjoy it, and I would regret it after a certain amount of time, but that's life. The right thing isn't always easy to do. I don't bow to anything short of what I consider perfect.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 08:38:21 AM by One Above All »
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Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
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Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2012, 08:38:24 AM »
It seems a very limited false sort of worship that exists only because the alternative is too horrible to contemplate.

Yep, sure does. But that's the choice you have. We can only speculate, because we can't know what eternal torture is like, but my speculation is that it's not something that you can make a claim of being able to endure with such brazen certainty as Nam does.

Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2012, 08:39:11 AM »
If we all get into heaven, maybe we can overthrow him.

Right. Live to fight another day at the minimum.

Offline Quesi

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2012, 08:39:50 AM »
If Biblegod existed, and Biblegod punished nonbelievers who lived good lives, and also if Deuteronomy 23-2 http://bible.cc/deuteronomy/23-2.htm is to be taken literally, then that means I would never have the opportunity to spend eternity with my beloved parents, or my wonderful, sweet, innocent little girl.

I cannot imagine a pain more excruciating than knowing that my sweet daughter was in pain, and that I could not protect her.  Or at least be with her while she was in pain.  If I had to choose between being separated from her for all of eternity, while I languished in paradise and she burned in a lake of eternal fire, or being there with her in that lake of fire, I would choose to be with her. 

But what kind of a miserable god would make me choose?  Not one worthy of my worship. 

Online Dante

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2012, 08:43:36 AM »
Because worship doesn't mean lip service, or resented lip service, or "if I don't appear to be worshipping I'll go to hell", it means worship.

Yes, this. Much like the fact that one doesn't "choose" to believe or disbelieve, I doubt one can "choose" to worship that which is reprehensible. And if the biblegod really is omniscient, well…..
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline Nam

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2012, 08:44:56 AM »
Isn't Hell the place without Biblegod. I think I read that somewhere. And, since most of us are already there, since most of us are the dreaded "atheist", I think I'm doing good so far. I've been without Biblegod for 20+ years.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline pianodwarf

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2012, 08:48:39 AM »
If Biblegod existed, and Biblegod punished nonbelievers who lived good lives, and also if Deuteronomy 23-2 http://bible.cc/deuteronomy/23-2.htm is to be taken literally, then that means I would never have the opportunity to spend eternity with my beloved parents, or my wonderful, sweet, innocent little girl.

I cannot imagine a pain more excruciating than knowing that my sweet daughter was in pain, and that I could not protect her.  Or at least be with her while she was in pain.  If I had to choose between being separated from her for all of eternity, while I languished in paradise and she burned in a lake of eternal fire, or being there with her in that lake of fire, I would choose to be with her. 

But what kind of a miserable god would make me choose?  Not one worthy of my worship.

Oh, don't worry about that.  If you're saved, but any people you care about get condemned, Yahweh will simply alter your personality so that you won't feel any compassion for them anymore and thus won't be upset about it.  Won't that be nice?
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Offline kin hell

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2012, 08:49:18 AM »
It seems a very limited false sort of worship that exists only because the alternative is too horrible to contemplate.

Yep, sure does. But that's the choice you have. We can only speculate, because we can't know what eternal torture is like, but my speculation is that it's not something that you can make a claim of being able to endure with such brazen certainty as Nam does.

I cannot answer for Nam, but I suspect that I could not "worship"  (always been anti authoritarian, and incapable of delegating authority over me to others) this god is fucking repugnant, and at best I would in fear be pretending to worship something I truly loathe ....and surely my deceit would be transparent so I'd burn anyway.

So I must suggest that Nam's position may be no different than saying he'd have no choice.

You didn't answer the questions I asked. My point was to truly worship doesn't mean falsely pretend to worship for fear of hellfire.
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

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Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2012, 08:58:25 AM »
You didn't answer the questions I asked. My point was to truly worship doesn't mean falsely pretend to worship for fear of hellfire.

My point is you would truly worship it before choosing Hell though. I believe your meager human mind would crumble, as would mine. All this talk of standing up to a real god and choosing eternal Hell is just cheap talk, IMHO. It's easy to type out these brazen claims sitting behind a computer screen, but my speculation if all this was true is that you, as I, being mere frail humans, would really worship it. I do not see any way you would be able to not do it.

Offline Nam

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2012, 09:00:27 AM »
I don't know Hal, do you believe you're winning this argument, yet?

People who give in so easily to what they've been against most or all their lives are weak by nature.  See, Christianity was one of my abusers when I was a child. It did more mental damage than physical but it had a hand in the physical aspect, as well. Now, some could say that I chose atheism 'cause I got a bad rap as a child from those who weren't really loving wholesome Christians but that wouldn't be true 'cause those people were there, too.  No, reading the Bible, cover to cover, and understanding what I was reading taught me: Christianity is nothing but a hateful religion in the disguise of good will.

See, it'd be more of a hell; i'd be tortured more in my mind and heart if I accepted what causes me the most pain. Taking the opposite route would be a picnic compared to being the weak person, such as yourself.

That's how I know i'd last more than 15 seconds.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline pianodwarf

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2012, 09:04:08 AM »
You didn't answer the questions I asked. My point was to truly worship doesn't mean falsely pretend to worship for fear of hellfire.

My point is you would truly worship it before choosing Hell though. I believe your meager human mind would crumble, as would mine. All this talk of standing up to a real god and choosing eternal Hell is just cheap talk, IMHO. It's easy to type out these brazen claims sitting behind a computer screen, but my speculation if all this was true is that you, as I, being mere frail humans, would really worship it. I do not see any way you would be able to not do it.

I think you're probably right, except for one thing -- unlike with a human tyrant, where mere behavior is likely (or at least possibly) sufficient, Yahweh demands not just worship, but love, and also has the ability to look inside your head to tell whether you're sincere.  This really puts you up against the wall.

In my own case, I'd be tempted to go thru the motions, sure, but on the other hand, since I would also know perfectly well that going thru the motions wouldn't be sufficient, I'm not sure I'd actually follow thru.  I've been known in the past to abandon things when I see no constructive purpose or result arising from the pursuit.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2012, 09:04:39 AM »
People who give in so easily to what they've been against most or all their lives are weak by nature.

Tell me Nam - how many times have you confronted an actual god proven to exist, refused to worship it, and chosen an actual Hell for eternity?

I thought so.

Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2012, 09:12:14 AM »
I think you're probably right, except for one thing -- unlike with a human tyrant, where mere behavior is likely (or at least possibly) sufficient, Yahweh demands not just worship, but love, and also has the ability to look inside your head to tell whether you're sincere.  This really puts you up against the wall.

True, but Nam's stating he wouldn't even try. He says he'd choose - actually choose - eternal torture first. My speculation is that that is a ridiculous claim to make. Why? Because it is ludicrous to claim you could stand up to the agony. You wouldn't actually choose it, is my speculation. When it comes to the actual reality of this whole scenario (that's what we're considering here) he wouldn't be such a badass as he's making himself out to be. Just typing bold claims of rejecting an actual real god is pretty easy on the internets.

Here watch -

"I would choose eternal torture over worshiping Bible god it it was shown to actually exist!"

See how easy that was? Nothin' to it.

Offline Nam

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2012, 09:18:19 AM »
People who give in so easily to what they've been against most or all their lives are weak by nature.

Tell me Nam - how many times have you confronted an actual god proven to exist, refused to worship it, and chosen an actual Hell for eternity?

I thought so.

That's not the point. You're speaking for everyone who has a differing opinion to your own as if we're[1] not competent enough to know our own minds.

I've been "defiant" and one who doesn't take shit from anyone most of my life. Why would I turn around and be the opposite of that all because of some deity that acts like a little baby is shown to actually exist? That would require "fear", and I'm only afraid of one thing, and it ain't no realization of a deity or what it could do to me if I don't bow down to it. I've been in physical fights where I knew I was going to lose but I fought anyway...

What makes you think i'd back down over something like this? Have I ever, to your knowledge, backed down?

If you say yes, you're a liar.

You're speaking for me, and everyone else who state that we'd oppose such a being 'cause that's what you'd do. Not all of us give in so easily.

-Nam
 1. or most likely: just me
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2012, 09:20:29 AM »
Nam makes a good point. You don't know his mind, my mind or the minds of anyone who claim they would choose eternal torture over worship.
In short, don't project. It doesn't suit you.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2012, 09:22:00 AM »
That's not the point. You're speaking for everyone who has a differing opinion to your own as if we're[1] not competent enough to know our own minds.
 1. or most likely: just me

You made the claim. Look at the OP. What evidence do you have that you can give the readers that you can stand up to eternal torture and could rationally make that choice? So far all I heard about is a staple gun or some such that you endured? How close is that to the pain of eternal torture? Hmmm ...

You made the claim Nam, I'm waiting for your evidence that can support it. When was the last time you confronted an actual real god and chose eternal torture?

Offline kin hell

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2012, 09:24:05 AM »
abject fear is not worship

worship from fear is not worship

worship because I am too transfixed by fear to do anything else is not worship.



I am not arguing Nam's corner at all, but one thought occurred, what about all the true believers that have grievously sinned believing they'd burn.
Are they not evidence of people who have done what Nam says he'd do?
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2012, 09:24:14 AM »
Nam makes a good point. You don't know his mind, my mind or the minds of anyone who claim they would choose eternal torture over worship.
In short, don't project. It doesn't suit you.

This whole scenario is based on speculation, so your point is invalid. We're all speculating what humans can endure or what they will do in this thread.

Online One Above All

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2012, 09:26:45 AM »
This whole scenario is based on speculation, so your point is invalid. We're all speculating what humans can endure or what they will do in this thread.

We're speculating based on what we know about ourselves. You're speculating based on your projections. Who has a better case here?
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2012, 09:27:09 AM »
Hot thread eh?

abject fear is not worship

worship from fear is not worship

worship because I am too transfixed by fear to do anything else is not worship.

Why not? Why can't those be worship?

Quote
I am not arguing Nam's corner at all, but one thought occurred, what about all the true believers that have grievously sinned believing they'd burn.
Are they not evidence of people who have done what Nam says he'd do?

I don't know. That's not the point of the thread though.

Offline Nam

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2012, 09:29:54 AM »
My personal baggage, struggles, and the like is none of your business, or anyone else's for that matter. Those minor things I mention, let's just say pale in comparison to things I, and others have been through.  You don't know my life, or anyone else's on here or anywhere else unless they let you know but even in saying all that: they're just words.

And, I have no problem with you, or anyone else stating a differing opinion to my own or others but that's not what you did. You projected your thoughts and ideals, and made them supercede all others 'cause you find the idea ridiculous.

You made it seem as if all other viewpoints and/or opinions were purely nonsense 'cause you feel differently, and it isn't what you'd do.

That's when you lost this argument.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2012, 09:30:26 AM »
We're speculating based on what we know about ourselves. You're speculating based on your projections. Who has a better case here?

How can you speculate on what you would do about choosing eternal torture if you have no experience with it? That's the point. Nam thinks he can speculate on what he would do in the scenario and I don't buy it. Speculating about choosing chocolate ice cream over strawberry next time you buy an ice cream cone is one thing because you've had experience with it. This is not the same thing. Do you understand now?

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2012, 09:33:26 AM »
How can you speculate on what you would do about choosing eternal torture if you have no experience with it?
<snip>

The same way I can speculate on what I would do if I became paralyzed or if I tried to drive a car for the first time. Because I know myself better than any living being in existence.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2012, 09:34:30 AM »
You projected your thoughts and ideals, and made them supercede all others 'cause you find the idea ridiculous.

Yes I find your claim ridiculous. I ask again for the third time - what experience do you have with rejecting actual real gods and choosing eternal torture?

Quote
You made it seem as if all other viewpoints and/or opinions were purely nonsense 'cause you feel differently, and it isn't what you'd do.

If they are based on speculation with experiences humans have actually had, then they aren't nonsense. Who here has has experience with rejecting actual real gods Nam? I'm still waiting for an answer.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2012, 09:37:13 AM by HAL »

Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2012, 09:36:47 AM »
The same way I can speculate on what I would do if I became paralyzed or if I tried to drive a car for the first time.

Have human beings ever been paralyzed before, or driven cars for the first time before? Have you ever heard about how other people react to those situations before?

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2012, 09:38:50 AM »
Have human beings ever been paralyzed before, or driven cars for the first time before? Have you ever heard about how other people react to those situations before?

Yes. Their reactions are numerous, each depending on their personality at the time. I do not know their personality at the time, though, so your point[1] is moot.
 1. At least the one I think you were trying to make.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.