Author Topic: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?  (Read 12897 times)

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Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #261 on: June 13, 2012, 11:16:06 AM »
I don't have a fear of going to hell. It's not a tangent, you asked a question with no parameters so I'm forced to use my own parameters. You can't understand my decision if you don't know the information I'm using to base my decision off of.

No, I gave you the parameters - it has two parameters - worship god or go to eternal torture. Inserting more parameters would make it your own hypothetical. Do you want to start another thread with your own hypothetical?

Quote
Maybe you should retry the question with more specific parameters and less un answered variables?

No, it's just the way I want it. Two parameters.

Quote
Then I find your hypothetical to be unanswerable. We've spent 9 pages discussing parameters that you can't agree to because they now don't matter and weren't part of the OP.

Yes, and on those 9 pages some people have understood the consequences and have answered honestly taking into account their own humanity. I can't agree to parameters that aren't in my hypothetical. If you want to start your own please do.

Quote
We can't discuss this further because you dismiss all arguments that don't fit with in your opinion. You didn't set the parameters in the OP to be specific to your opinion of bible god, but 9 pages later we now know that they are. So, I can't answer these questions until we can allow each user to interpret their ideal of the bible god in this thread.

We? Who is "we". Oh, you mean the people who want to adjust the hypothetical to suit themselves, so they can design it such that they can answer it a certain way? Request denied. The only consideration is whether you would choose eternal torture or worship god. That's all you have to go on. It's enough for many people to have made an honest answer because they realize, in this hypothetical, the overriding issue is their own humanity in the face of a deity that can torture them for eternity.

Offline sun_king

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #262 on: June 13, 2012, 11:25:05 AM »

Congratulations are in order to all those atheists who will without a doubt wisely and unselfishly choose to be on the side of insincere worship if the time ever comes. Courage and toughness if I've ever seen it !


One of the problems with hypothetical questions... we don't have a choice. There is only one correct answer. Here is Dr. Sheldon Cooper


Offline flapdoodle64

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #263 on: June 13, 2012, 11:28:06 AM »
Then how did all of us who are former Biblegod worshippers become atheists? If what you say is true, then none of should be atheists and we're still in love with Biblegod, no?

I'd bet most of us started down the path toward disbelief once we stopped going to church every week. 

You start to get some distance from you captor, then the syndrome weakens. 

Otherwise Patty Hearst would have stayed SLA for the rest of her life. 

This is why cults want daily contact with members, and why mainstream religions want weekly or more attendance. 

Contact with other ideas, belief systems, also weakens the control.  A lot of people become atheists in college, once they start getting exposed to other ways of thinking. 

SLA didn't let Patty Hearst roam free 6 days a week and only make her robs banks 1 day per week.  They kept her under control 24/7. 

But in the hypothetical syndrome proposed, Biblegod is verifiably real.  So alternative ways of thinking would be marginalized, if they existed at all. 

You'd be stuck in Biblegod's world all the time, with no exposure to other realities.  It would be like living in Salt Lake City. 

Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #264 on: June 13, 2012, 11:32:10 AM »
One of the problems with hypothetical questions... we don't have a choice. There is only one correct answer.

Hypothetically, if you could magically create a double-dip ice cream cone for yourself right now, chocolate and vanilla, which flavor would you have on top?

Offline Nam

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #265 on: June 13, 2012, 11:37:38 AM »
Flapdoodle64,

How about the atheists who are former Biblethumpers who went to church regularly, even after their parents stopped?[1] I mean, iwe were brainwashed, no? So, how'd we get away?

It doesn't make sense to me, with your scenario. Sorry.

-Nam
 1. such as myself
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #266 on: June 13, 2012, 01:00:40 PM »
HAL,

You have set parameters several times during this thread after the OP was made. To help substantiate your opinion. But you don't let anyone else do the same thing.

I don't want to make my own hypothetical nor do I think there should be a new one. It would be redundancy and after my day at work today I've had all the redundancy I can handle I still have to do the same thing 20 more times before the day is over.

So because we can't define the biblegod, because you believe that is irrelevant to the OP, how precisely is anyone to answer your question unless they have the exact same SPAG God as your biblegod?

I for the life me don't know how we can progress any further with these limitations. I have thoroughly and redundantly shared how I come to my conclusion and you have thoroughly a redundantly ignored it or rejected it.

We are at an impasse. I feel as though if this conversation were IRL we would be able to clarify things and eventually come to a conclusion to this conversation. But as it stands now I don't think we can progress any further.

I fear we are miscommunicating some where or but I have no idea where.
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline Kimberly

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #267 on: June 13, 2012, 01:08:12 PM »
HAL,

I'm just wondering can you smell the color nine?

Religious reference:


I really do request a serious answer. Please allow me this brief derail so I can attempt to clear up a misunderstanding I think we have.




Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline flapdoodle64

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #268 on: June 13, 2012, 01:15:20 PM »
Nam: Reread my previous 2 posts.

Now, in our world, with zero evidence to support Biblegod, most people keep believing in him, despite books, college, other atheists etc.  This shows how well Mind Control Techniques/Stockholm Syndrome work. 

Now, in the hypothetical world where Biblegod is real, there must be evidence in him because he is real. 

Believing in Biblegod would be like believing in gravity. 

So if this real god and his proxies spend your entire life using cult mind control techniques such as alternating abuse with non-abuse, and if all the reliable evidence is that this god exists, you are going to believe in him, and the odds are you will love him, Stockholm style. 

There will always be exceptions here and there.  But most people will be frightened or psychologically abused into loving biblegod.  That's how humans adapt to life under a tyrant with no hope of escape. 

The US military works with the assumption that everyone has a breaking point, given enough time and a creative approach to indoctrination.  I am not happy about these facts. I don't advocate in favor of tyranny.  But tyranny has been in existence all of human history, it is an advanced and proven art form.  Tyrants use oppression and abuse because it works. 

This whole thread illustrates to me a reason why atheism is better than theism: theists are essentially people terrorized or psychologically abused into loving a tyrant god. 

But I do believe that in an environment that 95% supports the belief, such as in our world 95% of the evidence supports the existence of gravity, most of us would eventually succumb and convince ourself that we love biblegod, or at least fake it. 

Exactly why you fell out of belief, I don't know.  But you fell out in a world where there are books, other atheists, universities, etc.  A world where science and history don't support the Bible. 

In a meta sense, this thread illustrates a major silliness of religion.  The willingness of people to waste huge amounts of time arguing over opposing impossibilities.   Myself included.

Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #269 on: June 13, 2012, 01:20:01 PM »
Let me try to explain how a hypothetical works.

You are to consider that it really happened - that Biblegod was proven true.

Now you are standing there and you have two options - worship it or take eternal torture. There is no "I don't have enough information". There is no "This isn't fair". There is no "I can't answer the question." That's what you have to imagine is happening. That's the hypothetical. A hypothetical can be any scenario anyone can imagine.

You are to consider it a real situation and you have two choices. Either you worship the thing or not, and if not you get eternal torture.

Not answering because you don't have enough information means you go to Hell.

Complaining to it means you go to Hell.

Being arrogant to it means you know what.

Asking it to explain what god it is means you get Hell.

^^^ No, those aren't more parameters, they are things you are wanting to know that you are dis-allowed in the hypothetical. All you get to know is the two choices. That's why there are only two parameters.

If the problem is too hard for you standing there, with only those two choices, and you refuse to answer, you get eternal torture.

You know, it almost seems like some of you have never seen a hypothetical question before. It's almost more interesting how you react to hypotheticals than the actual answer you are giving.

Offline Nam

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #270 on: June 13, 2012, 02:05:48 PM »
You forgot the part where all of those who disagree with you, are wrong, and that you know us better than we know ourselves. You also forgot, per rules of the site, where if you're going to state something as fact without the evidence to back it up, it is still just your opinion though you still clearly state it as fact.

We all answered your OP, our answers didn't satisfy you, so you broadened the OP to be more in-line with what you believe you know what every person will do without any evidence to back that up, and when we respond to that, you then insult us for holding our positions.

I've been told to stop responding, and heard rumors that people respect you less based on some of the things you've stated here.

And, you know what: I'm going to. Not because they are telling me to but because they, minus Kimberly, and a few others, are afraid of you because you're an Administrator, and they're not.

It's been suggested that I report you. To who? You're an Administrator.

This topic should've been in the Bottomless Pit pages ago, and if anyone else started it: it would be.

Have fun trying to convince yourself that all what I just stated is untrue.

-Nam
« Last Edit: June 13, 2012, 02:08:46 PM by Nam »
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #271 on: June 13, 2012, 02:13:02 PM »
This topic should've been in the Bottomless Pit pages ago, and if anyone else started it: it would be.

Actually, I did try to move it to the Pit yesterday, but because of this nasty head cold I have, I screwed up the move, and it ended up getting moved back to GRD.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #272 on: June 13, 2012, 02:14:39 PM »
This topic should've been in the Bottomless Pit pages ago, and if anyone else started it: it would be.

Actually, I did try to move it to the Pit yesterday, but because of this nasty head cold I have, I screwed up the move, and it ended up getting moved back to GRD.

Go ahead and move it there, might as well.

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #273 on: June 13, 2012, 02:15:13 PM »
Nice Kobayashi MaruWiki scenario, HAL, since I didn't say it before.

For those who don't know Star Trek, this is a common reference to a no-win scenario.  No matter what you do, it's a bad choice.  In this case, if you do anything but agree to worship, you go straight to hell and you can't ever get out.  If you do choose to worship, you betray your principles, but you live forever.  Neither is exactly palatable.  So the choice is, keep your principles but suffer unending torment, or abandon your principles but live forever in comfort.

As for me, I don't know what I would choose.  It'd be easy to assume that I'd be courageous and refuse to surrender my principles, but I can't know that until I'm actually faced with this situation.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #274 on: June 13, 2012, 02:51:06 PM »

Actually, I did try to move it to the Pit yesterday, but because of this nasty head cold I have, I screwed up the move, and it ended up getting moved back to GRD.

Go ahead and move it there, might as well.

What are you saying it is better to be an intenet tough guy and be sent to the bottomless pit? ;)
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #275 on: June 13, 2012, 02:52:58 PM »
There is no person on this forum, in my opinion, that has demonstrated any capacity to toss aside one of the most fundamental of our instincts - self preservation as regards this scenario (not other things you have done in your life). Not one person has shown how they would or could even come close to doing that in this scenario. If that upsets you so be it. For many, many real scenarios (not hypothetical) that I could put before you, much less traumatic, you would choose self-preservation over all else. In some actual cases some people would give up their lives and toss aside that instinct, but for various reasons they are doing that to achieve a result.

The hypothetical scenario presented would be the greatest worldview altering, mind blowing event you could possibly imagine and you would not treat it as flippantly as some of you are doing here. Frankly you (I) would be at at once scared, unsure, cowering, and looking for any way to avoid the nasty alternative. I do not believe any person here in the face of a reality like this, would do any different. The actual reality of this scenario is not sinking in for most of you.

In my opinion, it is a fact that you would act completely different than your typed out heroic stands/reactions in this thread. The exceptions are if you are now insane, or happen to go temporarily insane, such that you choose eternal torture. Self preservation and the knowledge that you cannot achieve a result for any purpose by choosing eternal torture, and that unimaginable pain also awaits, will prevent you from choosing eternal torture. I believe this is a fact backed up by the study of human nature.

So my stance has not altered in the least.

Quote
Self-preservation is behavior that ensures the survival of an organism.[1] It is universal among living organisms.[citation needed] Pain and fear are parts of this mechanism. Pain motivates the individual to withdraw from damaging situations, to protect a damaged body part while it heals, and to avoid similar experiences in the future.[2]

Most pain resolves promptly once the painful stimulus is removed and the body has healed, but sometimes pain persists despite removal of the stimulus and apparent healing of the body; and sometimes pain arises in the absence of any detectable stimulus, damage or disease.[3]

Fear causes the organism to seek safety and may cause a release of adrenaline[4][5], which has the effect of increased strength and heightened senses such as hearing, smell, and sight. Self-preservation may also be interpreted figuratively; in regard to the coping mechanisms one needs to prevent emotional trauma from distorting the mind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-preservation

Offline lotanddaughters

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #276 on: June 13, 2012, 03:11:26 PM »
It's called 'Stockholm Syndrome,'

I how you feel, HAL! You can get a real education in this thread! You are in agony for eternity and can't think about nothing but the pain, and somehow your love grows for your tormentor! I concede the point! Sign me up! ;D
Enough with your bullshit.
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #277 on: June 13, 2012, 03:19:26 PM »
You know, it almost seems like some of you have never seen a hypothetical question before. It's almost more interesting how you react to hypotheticals than the actual answer you are giving.

I agree for some reason this silly guy named HAL keeps offering two options but then dismissing anyone who picks the the option he opposes. Seems like the person creating the hypothetical would get that, no?  ;)

I played your game, by your rules, and picked my option. All you can do now is tell me why you disagree with my decision. My whole point for the past 9 pages has been that you can't tell someone else what option they will pick.

You can presume.
You can guesstimate.
You can calculate.
You can assume. (We all know what leads to :P )
You can formulate.
You can even make splendid arguments to the contrary.

But you can't smell the color nine HAL.[1]
 1. (You ignored that question, but my point was, is and will be, that you can't know.)
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline Kimberly

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #278 on: June 13, 2012, 03:35:26 PM »
And, you know what: I'm going to. Not because they are telling me to but because they, minus Kimberly, and a few others, are afraid of you because you're an Administrator, and they're not.

For the record, I'm not afraid of HAL because he's an admin. I don't think he has abused any powers, or broken any rules. I think he's posting as a member of this forum and should be treated just like anyone else. He doesn't deserve special treatment just because he's an admin. Anyone who is afraid to express their opinions about a silly hypothetical just because the person presenting the argument is a forum admin should give it try before gossiping.

Also for the record, I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. It's interesting and entertaining.
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #279 on: June 13, 2012, 03:36:50 PM »
I agree for some reason this silly guy named HAL keeps offering two options but then dismissing anyone who picks the the option he opposes. Seems like the person creating the hypothetical would get that, no?

I played your game, by your rules, and picked my option. All you can do now is tell me why you disagree with my decision. My whole point for the past 9 pages has been that you can't tell someone else what option they will pick.

You can pick the option you want. Eternal torture right? You can pick it, I already said how that could happen. I haven't heard you agree to that condition yet. If you are insane or go temporarily insane. If you agree that choosing eternal torture is tantamount to temporary insanity (I do not believe you are insane now) then we don't have a disagreement at all. I might even agree that it amounts to a dangerously irrational state of mind to choose eternal torture. But I always said there was a way someone might pick eternal torture.

Quote
But you can't smell the color nine HAL.[1]
 1. (You ignored that question, but my point was, is and will be, that you can't know.)

Sorry I got busy

No I can't smell the color nine.

Back to you -

Can you ride along with a beam of light?

Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #280 on: June 13, 2012, 03:52:15 PM »
And like I say, to concede that I WOULD bow down to that character makes damn near everything I've said moot.  So this may well be it for me here.

Actually - me too.

I'm really back to the point of total burnout anyway, and lately I've seen little point to the place other than entertainment. That's why I've not been better behaved lately, I just don't seem to care anymore. So I am considering the same thing you are.

How's about them apples!  :o

Offline lotanddaughters

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #281 on: June 13, 2012, 04:04:27 PM »
When it comes to reality (if this Heaven and Hell were true) who here would choose to go to Hell and burn forever?

I wouldn't.

You know what's funny, HAL? If I saw you pop this question in a thread without the "I wouldn't" that follows, I would take it as a rhetorical question.

If you added the "I wouldn't", I would take the total post as a question and obvious answer to prove a simple point.

If, out of the blue(not inspired by a post in another thread), you started this thread with the current title in place and the above was your OP, I definitely wouldn't bookmark it. I would think it was extremely stupid and uninteresting. But I would be wrong. The very first responder says it is a difficult question. And just when you thought there was only a rare idiot in the bunch, the suprises keep popping out. It's like, instead of The Atheist Corner, we have a secret Let's All Fuck With HAL Corner. I admit that I volunteered to play the role of "rational with HAL" just to keep it a tad realistic. ;D
Enough with your bullshit.
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #282 on: June 13, 2012, 04:05:38 PM »
You can pick the option you want. Eternal torture right? You can pick it, I already said how that could happen. I haven't heard you agree to that condition yet. If you are insane or go temporarily insane. If you agree that choosing eternal torture is tantamount to temporary insanity (I do not believe you are insane now) then we don't have a disagreement at all. I might even agree that it amounts to a dangerously irrational state of mind to choose eternal torture. But I always said there was a way someone might pick eternal torture.

You can call it insanity if you want. I have no problem with your judgement, I disagree with it but I think it's a fair assessment. I think where the problem started is when you started telling people how they would act, respond, etc.

Can you ride along with a beam of light?

In due time, in due time my friend.
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline Kimberly

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #283 on: June 13, 2012, 04:08:24 PM »
And like I say, to concede that I WOULD bow down to that character makes damn near everything I've said moot.  So this may well be it for me here.

Actually - me too.

I'm really back to the point of total burnout anyway, and lately I've seen little point to the place other than entertainment. That's why I've not been better behaved lately, I just don't seem to care anymore. So I am considering the same thing you are.

How's about them apples!  :o

You should get pregnant, have your home forum taken away from you, and go on a hiatus for almost a year. It does wonders.  :laugh:
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline sun_king

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #284 on: June 13, 2012, 09:39:49 PM »
Hypothetically, if you could magically create a double-dip ice cream cone for yourself right now, chocolate and vanilla, which flavor would you have on top?

Vanilla.

This scenario is well defined. I have one magical power, to create a double-dip ice cream for myself. I have two choices, vanilla and cocolate. The question is clear, which one would I choose. If I say strawberry, you have every right to say that it is not relevant. That is the benefit of defining the scenario clearly. Your OP was wide open for any interpretation and most of your efforts were closing the lanes.

You can bring in Self-Preservation into this. But then it is a choice of the individual and you have no authority in deciding what we would choose. Self preservation should have made Leonidas go back, Kamikaze pilots wouldn't have made their final dives and Apollo Creed wouldnt have gone for the second round against Ivan Drago.

And yes, we can ride along a beam of light! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beam_riding)


Offline learnin

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #285 on: June 13, 2012, 11:51:14 PM »
There's something that's troubling to me after partaking in  this discussion.  I've come a long way from my religious belief held for over 40 adult years.  I wouldn't say I'm an atheist (I still can't get my mind around the existence of a  beating human heart without some kind of maker)  but I've rejected much of what I previously believed.    I read here and discuss to learn and fine tune my position.

What bothers me about this discussion.  From what I've read on this forum, most atheists say they would believe in a god if someone could present real evidence.  After reading this discussion, I wonder if many atheist would accept evidence of the supernatural if it was shown?  Let me explain.

Forget the OP and the hypotheticals presented.  I'll bring it down to real life with only one hypothetical.  You don't become unconscious or die from the torture.

Suppose a murdering dictator fires up a red hot griddle.  He gives you two choices. 

1.  You bow down to me and tell me I'm great

or:

2.  I place your naked body on this red hot griddle.

No human being would last 2 minutes burning on this griddle.  I'm telling you straight away...Within seconds, every human being would say:  "Stop the burning, I'll do as you say."

A human being can only tolerate a certain amount of pain and trauma and this is why the brain stops working and shuts down.  If this shut down mechanism does not shut down, every human being would succumb to the pain.

Why am I troubled?  Because we still have posters, here, who are trying to get around the obvious.  This troubles me because I wonder how many would really accept evidence of the supernatural if it were given?  And then I'm taken back to the words of Jesus when Dives asked if he could warn his family about hell:
"They wouldn't believe if even the dead came back".

Before you reply, please understand I'm not saying this proves Jesus was correct.  I'm simply saying that, for someone who is here with a completely open mind, it's troubling to see some atheists running from something which is a certain fact.

Offline Samothec

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #286 on: June 14, 2012, 12:31:26 AM »
The question is flawed. As is most of the follow up. I have not read all posts as it got very annoying.

How does Biblegod show himself to exist? Does he answer all beneficial prayers and insure everyone has food and water and their health is suddenly perfect? Or does he strike down those he finds most offensive?
Which Biblegod is it? The loving one or the wrathful one?

HAL, your guesses as to how people would react are flawed in a similar manner. You are not considering that many people who responded have hinted (or stated) that they are expecting the wrathful Biblegod which means heaven is going to be as bad as if not worse than hell. With that expectation of course they choose hell. You would too.

If the loving one showed up then yes, most would choose heaven.

You assume the loving one appears so you assume all will choose heaven and assume any other answer is unrealistic. You have obviously not considered the alternative. You should do so then reread what others have written.


Another problem with the question is that we don't get a choice. When Biblegod appears he judges us and we go where he puts us.


If I had a choice, I'd choose my heaven in exchange for worship assuming Biblegod proved himself as Creator rather than just a powerful alien being. No, I won't be saying what my heaven would entail.
Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. - Martin Luther

Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #287 on: June 14, 2012, 06:04:13 AM »
The question is flawed. As is most of the follow up. I have not read all posts as it got very annoying.

No, it's a hypothetical - mine.

It's exactly what I want.

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How does Biblegod show himself to exist? Does he answer all beneficial prayers and insure everyone has food and water and their health is suddenly perfect? Or does he strike down those he finds most offensive?
Which Biblegod is it? The loving one or the wrathful one?

Irrelevant to the hypothetical.

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HAL, your guesses as to how people would react are flawed in a similar manner. You are not considering that many people who responded have hinted (or stated) that they are expecting the wrathful Biblegod which means heaven is going to be as bad as if not worse than hell. With that expectation of course they choose hell. You would too.

Irrelevant. They only have the two choices as written, that's all they can go on.

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If the loving one showed up then yes, most would choose heaven.

All they can go on is what's in the hypothetical and the information contained there. If it's too difficult a choice for you then don't attempt to answer it as is.

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You assume the loving one appears so you assume all will choose heaven and assume any other answer is unrealistic. You have obviously not considered the alternative. You should do so then reread what others have written.

I do not believe any of the members who say they will choose eternal torture, unless they are insane. Are they insane?


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Another problem with the question is that we don't get a choice. When Biblegod appears he judges us and we go where he puts us.

There is no problem with the hypothetical. It's perfect for it's purpose.

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If I had a choice, I'd choose my heaven in exchange for worship assuming Biblegod proved himself as Creator rather than just a powerful alien being. No, I won't be saying what my heaven would entail.

Irrelevant - there is no more information you can go on in my hypothetical. Feel free to write your own in another thread.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 06:18:03 AM by HAL »

Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #288 on: June 14, 2012, 06:06:12 AM »
What bothers me about this discussion.  From what I've read on this forum, most atheists say they would believe in a god if someone could present real evidence.  After reading this discussion, I wonder if many atheist would accept evidence of the supernatural if it was shown?  Let me explain.

Forget the OP and the hypotheticals presented.  I'll bring it down to real life with only one hypothetical.  You don't become unconscious or die from the torture.

Suppose a murdering dictator fires up a red hot griddle.  He gives you two choices. 

1.  You bow down to me and tell me I'm great

or:

2.  I place your naked body on this red hot griddle.

No human being would last 2 minutes burning on this griddle.  I'm telling you straight away...Within seconds, every human being would say:  "Stop the burning, I'll do as you say."

A human being can only tolerate a certain amount of pain and trauma and this is why the brain stops working and shuts down.  If this shut down mechanism does not shut down, every human being would succumb to the pain.

Exactly. Thanks for the explanation.

Offline HAL

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Re: If Biblegod was shown to exist, Would you worship or Burn Forever?
« Reply #289 on: June 14, 2012, 06:17:06 AM »
Hypothetically, if you could magically create a double-dip ice cream cone for yourself right now, chocolate and vanilla, which flavor would you have on top?

Vanilla.

This scenario is well defined. I have one magical power, to create a double-dip ice cream for myself. I have two choices, vanilla and cocolate. The question is clear, which one would I choose. If I say strawberry, you have every right to say that it is not relevant. That is the benefit of defining the scenario clearly. Your OP was wide open for any interpretation and most of your efforts were closing the lanes.

No, you have a clear choice. The only information you have is all I want to give you in the hypothetical. You notice how you didn't complain about "magically"? That shows me you understand what a hypothetical is. You simply don't like my hypothetical because you are like the others - you believe, because you are now an atheist, you believe you would do anything to avoid worshiping a god, so you wiggle and complain and ask for more "information" and quibble and avoid answering truthfully in front of your peers and do anything you have to in front of your keyboard, even say you would go to hell rather than do what you know you would do to avoid it - worship your little ass off to get out of eternal torture.

If you don't like the choices given then you have another choice - don't attempt an answer.

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And yes, we can ride along a beam of light! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beam_riding)

No, your person can't ride a beam of light. That link is totally irrelevant to what I'm talking about. I'll get back to that later because it illustrates how hypotheticals can be used. Hypotheticals that otherwise are impossible to set up in reality.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2012, 06:25:14 AM by HAL »