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Offline WeZzZzRURR

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Someone...
« on: June 05, 2012, 11:13:52 PM »
Hello, as I stated in my introduction post, I am a christian. I would like to hear some of your beliefs as to why a God does not exist, or if you do believe he exists, why you believe he exists. Everyone is welcome to post it here, try to make it a brief paragraph if you can, I just want to develop an understanding of your reasoning.   :D
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Offline Timtheskeptic

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2012, 11:18:55 PM »
hello. I simply do not believe in a God because there have been no evidence to prove that there is a God. There are countless of different gods, countless of different religions, and yet all requires blind faith and many have made their kids believe in their religion without being taught to question it.
Me:What are you looking at Eminem?
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I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.

Offline WeZzZzRURR

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2012, 11:23:16 PM »
hello. I simply do not believe in a God because there have been no evidence to prove that there is a God. There are countless of different gods, countless of different religions, and yet all requires blind faith and many have made their kids believe in their religion without being taught to question it.

Okay, so if you had to put all your eggs into one basket, your reason for not believing in God and a certain religion is because you cannot prove that the God exists and that the religion is the right one?
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Offline Aaron123

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2012, 11:31:12 PM »
Hello, as I stated in my introduction post, I am a christian. I would like to hear some of your beliefs as to why a God does not exist, or if you do believe he exists, why you believe he exists. Everyone is welcome to post it here, try to make it a brief paragraph if you can, I just want to develop an understanding of your reasoning.   :D

As the last person said, the non-belief is due to lack of evidence of any sorts of gods.

Note that I said "non-belief".  You really can't call "god doesn't exist" a belief.  No more than "Santa Claus doesn't exist" or "The tooth fairy doesn't exist" is a belief.
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Re: Someone...
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2012, 11:34:14 PM »
I have never believed in god. I hope this doesn't come across as offensive, but the concept of the Abrahamic-style god has always seemed, quite frankly, silly. Basically, in all my 55 years of life on this planet, I've never seen or heard or experienced anything to convince me otherwise.
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Offline Timtheskeptic

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2012, 11:40:29 PM »
hello. I simply do not believe in a God because there have been no evidence to prove that there is a God. There are countless of different gods, countless of different religions, and yet all requires blind faith and many have made their kids believe in their religion without being taught to question it.

Okay, so if you had to put all your eggs into one basket, your reason for not believing in God and a certain religion is because you cannot prove that the God exists and that the religion is the right one?

how does one tell if their religion is indeed the right one? Practically all of the religious folks worldwide believes theirs were true and others were false. Also, time and time and again not a single religious person has ever proven that their God exists, which is why i cannot believe in a God.
Me:What are you looking at Eminem?
Brother: Nothing, Harry Potter.

I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.

Offline WeZzZzRURR

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2012, 11:40:52 PM »
Okay then, I know its hard to speak for everyone in this forum that does not believe in God, but could you guys speak on behalf of them that for most, the biggest reason for not believing in a God is because of lack of evidence?
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Offline Aaron123

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2012, 11:58:24 PM »
Okay then, I know its hard to speak for everyone in this forum that does not believe in God, but could you guys speak on behalf of them that for most, the biggest reason for not believing in a God is because of lack of evidence?

I'm not sure where you're going with this, but... isn't lack of evidence the biggest reason for non-belief?


Why do you not believe in Santa Claus?  Lack of Evidence.

Why do you not believe in the tooth fairy?  Lack of Evidence.

Why do you not believe in the greek gods?  Lack of Evidence.

Why do you not believe in Wargaflooppla?  Lack of Evidence.

...and so on it goes.
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline WeZzZzRURR

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2012, 11:59:27 PM »
Okay then, I know its hard to speak for everyone in this forum that does not believe in God, but could you guys speak on behalf of them that for most, the biggest reason for not believing in a God is because of lack of evidence?

I'm not sure where you're going with this, but... isn't lack of evidence the biggest reason for non-belief?


Why do you not believe in Santa Claus?  Lack of Evidence.

Why do you not believe in the tooth fairy?  Lack of Evidence.

Why do you not believe in the greek gods?  Lack of Evidence.

Why do you not believe in Wargaflooppla?  Lack of Evidence.

...and so on it goes.

I'm not heading anywhere, I am trying to develop an understanding for your beliefs as I have stated multiple times. =)
I want to leave this world knowing that I did everything I can to make it a better place...

Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2012, 12:11:51 AM »
I've copied & pasted your reply to me from the intro section:


lol trick question?

To me, God is the creator of everything (in the sense that he created the Heavens and the Earth, and the things on the Earth, and then everything we know today has branched off of his creation).

Basically to me, God is kind of like a parent-figure.....  God wants me to succeed in life, help others, and do great things.  I want to  do good things in the name of God, to make God proud, and not let God down.  I can easily compare this to the relationship I have with my dad.  I want to make my dad happy, make him proud of me, and do things for him and not let him down. 

Take a parent of a problematic kid for example:

If the kid knowingly does things that hurt and affect other people in negative ways, the parent would not reward their kid, but rather punish that kid.  Likewise, I believe it is the same way for God, but on a grander scale.

I am of the belief that to get sent to Hell, you really have to be a bad person, the type of person that you or I or most people would look at and say: "they do not deserve to live."  Even as bad as that person might be, God offers them a chance to change their ways and ask for forgiveness, but if the person refuses and continues their ways, knowing that their ways are bad, then what do you think that person deserves? Especially if the person presented with plenty of opportunity to change their ways, and refuse to.

Likewise, the parent of the kid attempts to help their kid change their ways if they are being bad, but if the person continues to keep being bad, affecting others negatively, the parent abandons their kid.  Even after that abandonment the kid might have the opportunity to change their ways and try to rebuild their relationship with the parent, but it doesn't always happen.

What makes God different from a parent-type is that if you are truly sincere in your apology and truly feel terrible about the bad things that you have committed in your life, God will forgive you.

Bad is kind of a broad word to use, considering its really a matter of opinion, but I think you get the idea...



I was hoping for a better answer than what you've provided.  So far you seem to have painted a rather childish father figure image into deep space; you even called it "him".  I'm just wondering why you believe such things.  What good reasons and/or evidence do you have?  Being born into a family or culture which you've adopted this image isn't a good reason.

So I ask again, what do you mean by "god"?
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Offline Aaron123

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2012, 12:19:58 AM »
I'm not heading anywhere, I am trying to develop an understanding for your beliefs as I have stated multiple times. =)

Here's the thing; in a way, you already do understand what it's like to hold non-beliefs.  Humanity has invented thousands of gods throughout history.  Odds are, you have not heard of 98-99% of them.  All of those gods, you do not believe.  You do not pay attention to them.  If they truly existed, and wanted human worship, they would've made their presence obvious a long time ago, and it would be just as obvious today.  Your non-belief is not based on hate, or any "issue" you have with things.  The gods are simply irrelevant and non-existence.  All of them.

Except for one.  You made an exception for just one of them.  Now, take your reasons for non-beliefs in all those other gods, and extend it by just one, and you'll understand what it means to hold no beliefs in any gods.
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Offline WeZzZzRURR

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2012, 12:35:56 AM »
I've copied & pasted your reply to me from the intro section:


lol trick question?

To me, God is the creator of everything (in the sense that he created the Heavens and the Earth, and the things on the Earth, and then everything we know today has branched off of his creation).

Basically to me, God is kind of like a parent-figure.....  God wants me to succeed in life, help others, and do great things.  I want to  do good things in the name of God, to make God proud, and not let God down.  I can easily compare this to the relationship I have with my dad.  I want to make my dad happy, make him proud of me, and do things for him and not let him down. 

Take a parent of a problematic kid for example:

If the kid knowingly does things that hurt and affect other people in negative ways, the parent would not reward their kid, but rather punish that kid.  Likewise, I believe it is the same way for God, but on a grander scale.

I am of the belief that to get sent to Hell, you really have to be a bad person, the type of person that you or I or most people would look at and say: "they do not deserve to live."  Even as bad as that person might be, God offers them a chance to change their ways and ask for forgiveness, but if the person refuses and continues their ways, knowing that their ways are bad, then what do you think that person deserves? Especially if the person presented with plenty of opportunity to change their ways, and refuse to.

Likewise, the parent of the kid attempts to help their kid change their ways if they are being bad, but if the person continues to keep being bad, affecting others negatively, the parent abandons their kid.  Even after that abandonment the kid might have the opportunity to change their ways and try to rebuild their relationship with the parent, but it doesn't always happen.

What makes God different from a parent-type is that if you are truly sincere in your apology and truly feel terrible about the bad things that you have committed in your life, God will forgive you.

Bad is kind of a broad word to use, considering its really a matter of opinion, but I think you get the idea...



I was hoping for a better answer than what you've provided.  So far you seem to have painted a rather childish father figure image into deep space; you even called it "him".  I'm just wondering why you believe such things.  What good reasons and/or evidence do you have?  Being born into a family or culture which you've adopted this image isn't a good reason.

So I ask again, what do you mean by "god"?

gahhhhh I thought I was careful enough to not refer to God as him, but oh well.... I knew you would call me out on that haha..... Ummm, as far as me referring to God as a him, I think that's just kind of my tendency to refer to God as such, because that is just what I am used to seeing I guess.  In all honesty, I don't know if God is a him, a her, or something that we lack the vocabulary to describe, and quite frankly, it doesn't matter to me.... What matters to me is that I am on this world because of God (belief, not a statement of fact).  I am provided with the opportunity to help others because of God.

Now as far as my "childish" portrayal of God (pun intented? =D), I just find that is a pretty good model for my relationship with God.... It may be to childish to you, but to me, it is what I believe, and I would want to thoroughly get to know someone and try to see life through their shoes before calling their beliefs "childish", but that's just my opinion. 

What you are looking for, and what a lot of you are looking for, is for me to give you some sort of evidence that God exists, and  until that happens, you will most likely completely disregard my belief.  I am going to have to tell you that legitimate evidence of God's existence does not exist, and I believe for good reason.... If we all knew for a fact that God existed, then there would be absolutely no faith aspect to the religion...  Everyone would pretty much be forced to believe in God just because we would have to, because we would know for sure that God is real.  If that were the case, do you think that believers would be true believers, or believers just because they knew that had to be?

Faith is something that we all rely on on a day to day basis, whether we want to admit it or not.  To criticize faith is to be a hypocrite.

Before this takes off and gets out of hand, I would just like to make it clear that I am not going to try to force my religion upon any of you..... I only wish to offer you my opinion, as for what you do with it is up to you, but I would love nothing more than to see you guys in the afterlife. =)



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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2012, 12:45:59 AM »
Thousands of religions have been claimed as real. You are your own custom version of a christian version. Your god, the one that you think is the true one, is just as invisible as all the others, which to you are obviously false, as they are to us. Your god requires faith and belief, just like all the false gods which you know are obviously not true. That is where we differ.

As we like to point out to all believers, you are an atheist when it comes to every other god but your own. So our atheism differs from yours by only one god. So close, and yet so far.

Most if not all of us consider all religions mythical. The Greeks used to actually believe in Zeus and Apollo and Atlas. The Romans believed in Janus and Mars and Neptune. The Norse had Odin, the American Indians had trickster coyotes and wise ravens. Each of these things was truly believed (and there are American Indians who still believe their stories today) but each is taught as myth in schools. Other religions older than your own have persisted, just as yours has. Hinduism too has holy books, holy men, holy holidays, holy expectations. The muslim religion is living proof that something can be made up on the spot and turned into a new religion. Yes it used some of christianity as a basis for its story, but it is also very different from your religion. And one guy whipped it out in just a few years.

Of course the lack of proof is relevant to atheists. The inaccuracy of "facts" within each religion makes them suspect as well. Your bible says that Jacob made striped goats by mating them in front of striped sticks. That is just plain silly, which makes it troublesome, being as the bible is, as we've been told by many, the perfect word of god. A real god would not include nonsense.

And if that were the only nonsense, we might be able to overlook it. But everything from the creation story and the ark to Moses running around for 40 yeaers in the desert with a million people and Jesus sacrificing himself for a few days adds to the nonsensical nature of the book. A god that sets up Adam and Eve to fail (which he knew they would because he is omniscient according to most) just so he could send down the kid to sacrifice himself is the stuff of myth and legend. But it is not the stuff of reality.

I have been an atheist for half a century and haven't once found my lack of belief challenged by anything I've encountered in reality. Nor have I encountered dirt-eating snakes, four legged insects or bats that were birds. I've not received a satisfactory explanation as to why your god was afraid of iron chariots or where the Egyptian gods that were not strong enough to ward off the christian god (the Moses staff/snake story) came from. Neither Egypt, which kept great records, nor Rome, which kept great records, made any mention of either Moses or Jesus. And christians everywhere have to find different ways to explain why JC didn't return in the lifetime of those he spoke to when he promised he would. I say different ways because one god and one kid have spawned well over 30,000 variations on the christian theme, where the religion hosts everything from snake bit snake handlers and very vocal tongue-speakers to dudes in popemobiles and tv evangelists. The only common thread being their request for money.

Now, toss into the mix science, which explains everything better than 2,000 year old sheepherders, and atheism trumps the living daylights out of all religion.

I know you wanted only a paragraph, but sadly, reality isn't simple enough to write Cliff Note versions of Cliff Notes. I had to make it at least this long just to cover the basics.

Added: In a post above, you said we all rely on faith. Yes I do. Faith in my friends, faith that I won't die in a car wreck when I go to the store, etc. Friends have failed me, and though I've been lucky, others haven't made it to the store. So even the faith we rely on is far from infallible. And it in no way resembles the faith of the religious, which is the only thing they have to work with because their god won't show up and say hi. That faith is very different than my faith in the blandness of a McDonalds hamburger.
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Offline WeZzZzRURR

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2012, 12:46:13 AM »
I'm not heading anywhere, I am trying to develop an understanding for your beliefs as I have stated multiple times. =)

Here's the thing; in a way, you already do understand what it's like to hold non-beliefs.  Humanity has invented thousands of gods throughout history.  Odds are, you have not heard of 98-99% of them.  All of those gods, you do not believe.  You do not pay attention to them.  If they truly existed, and wanted human worship, they would've made their presence obvious a long time ago, and it would be just as obvious today.  Your non-belief is not based on hate, or any "issue" you have with things.  The gods are simply irrelevant and non-existence.  All of them.

Except for one.  You made an exception for just one of them.  Now, take your reasons for non-beliefs in all those other gods, and extend it by just one, and you'll understand what it means to hold no beliefs in any gods.

Well I guess its a little bit different... I mean I meant just not believing in any God, what the reasoning is for that...
My lack of belief of other Gods isn't due to lack of evidence, its due to me already believing in my God....

Another little thing about my belief, is that I don't who God is, what God looks like, I just know that its God.  I wonder about the ideal that all the religions of today are branch-offs of one single religion, the real religion, that of which had a purpose of holding a relationship with God...  Now this ideal would imply the possibility that Christianity is a branch-off religion as well, and to be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if it is at least a little bit, I mean come on, its highly likely that it has been altered over these many years...  But I think that what could've happened over the years is people disagreed with the original religion, went on their own way, started a whole other "country" and took the ideals of the original religion in which they agreed with and mushed them together with other ideals of their own.  This is just a theory really, obviously it can't be proven, and I am not in any way saying that christianity is the original religion, but it does interest me how well it has managed to hold its ground in our world...

What I was leading up to is everyone will probably have a different interpretation of what God is to some extent, but the interpretation of God doesn't matter as much as the relationship with God...

Just some ideals, theories, and beliefs of mine. =)
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Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2012, 12:48:31 AM »

gahhhhh I thought I was careful enough to not refer to God as him, but oh well.... I knew you would call me out on that haha..... Ummm, as far as me referring to God as a him, I think that's just kind of my tendency to refer to God as such, because that is just what I am used to seeing I guess.  In all honesty, I don't know if God is a him, a her, or something that we lack the vocabulary to describe, and quite frankly, it doesn't matter to me.... What matters to me is that I am on this world because of God (belief, not a statement of fact).  I am provided with the opportunity to help others because of God.

You are able to help others with or without god-belief.

Quote
Now as far as my "childish" portrayal of God (pun intented? =D), I just find that is a pretty good model for my relationship with God.... It may be to childish to you, but to me, it is what I believe, and I would want to thoroughly get to know someone and try to see life through their shoes before calling their beliefs "childish", but that's just my opinion.

I was a christian for many years. I used to believe just like you.  You keep saying "that's what I believe", but you're avoiding my question as to what exactly you mean by "god".



Quote
I am going to have to tell you that legitimate evidence of God's existence does not exist, and I believe for good reason....

What is that reason?



Quote
If we all knew for a fact that God existed, then there would be absolutely no faith aspect to the religion.

Correct.  You seem to be under the impression that faith (believing things for which there is no evidence) is a good thing.  I respectfully suggest that it is not a virtue as you've been lead to believe.


 
Quote
Everyone would pretty much be forced to believe in God just because we would have to, because we would know for sure that God is real.

No, making himself unambiguously evident would still allow us to disregard him.  Are you only able to love your child if you remain completely invisible and undetectable?




Quote
Faith is something that we all rely on on a day to day basis, whether we want to admit it or not.  To criticize faith is to be a hypocrite.

No, faith is the effort to believe that which you know isn't true.  One can live a positive, healthy, happy life without holding false beliefs.



Quote
...but I would love nothing more than to see you guys in the afterlife.

Another good opportunity to explain what good reason & evidence you have for believing that your consciousness survives the death of the brain.
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Offline Traveler

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2012, 12:51:32 AM »
...the biggest reason for not believing in a God is because of lack of evidence?

That's probably what it boils down to, but ...

I am assuming that you don't believe that there are tiny fairies in your back yard, inhabiting the flowers. Neither do I. Which came first? Your non-belief, or a lack of evidence? Perhaps its a chicken and egg problem. It seems to me that my non-belief came first. And when I realized that others believed in a god or gods, I simply saw no reason, no evidence, no facts to back them up.
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Offline WeZzZzRURR

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2012, 01:08:56 AM »
Thousands of religions have been claimed as real. You are your own custom version of a christian version. Your god, the one that you think is the true one, is just as invisible as all the others, which to you are obviously false, as they are to us. Your god requires faith and belief, just like all the false gods which you know are obviously not true. That is where we differ.

As we like to point out to all believers, you are an atheist when it comes to every other god but your own. So our atheism differs from yours by only one god. So close, and yet so far.

Most if not all of us consider all religions mythical. The Greeks used to actually believe in Zeus and Apollo and Atlas. The Romans believed in Janus and Mars and Neptune. The Norse had Odin, the American Indians had trickster coyotes and wise ravens. Each of these things was truly believed (and there are American Indians who still believe their stories today) but each is taught as myth in schools. Other religions older than your own have persisted, just as yours has. Hinduism too has holy books, holy men, holy holidays, holy expectations. The muslim religion is living proof that something can be made up on the spot and turned into a new religion. Yes it used some of christianity as a basis for its story, but it is also very different from your religion. And one guy whipped it out in just a few years.

Of course the lack of proof is relevant to atheists. The inaccuracy of "facts" within each religion makes them suspect as well. Your bible says that Jacob made striped goats by mating them in front of striped sticks. That is just plain silly, which makes it troublesome, being as the bible is, as we've been told by many, the perfect word of god. A real god would not include nonsense.

And if that were the only nonsense, we might be able to overlook it. But everything from the creation story and the ark to Moses running around for 40 yeaers in the desert with a million people and Jesus sacrificing himself for a few days adds to the nonsensical nature of the book. A god that sets up Adam and Eve to fail (which he knew they would because he is omniscient according to most) just so he could send down the kid to sacrifice himself is the stuff of myth and legend. But it is not the stuff of reality.

I have been an atheist for half a century and haven't once found my lack of belief challenged by anything I've encountered in reality. Nor have I encountered dirt-eating snakes, four legged insects or bats that were birds. I've not received a satisfactory explanation as to why your god was afraid of iron chariots or where the Egyptian gods that were not strong enough to ward off the christian god (the Moses staff/snake story) came from. Neither Egypt, which kept great records, nor Rome, which kept great records, made any mention of either Moses or Jesus. And christians everywhere have to find different ways to explain why JC didn't return in the lifetime of those he spoke to when he promised he would. I say different ways because one god and one kid have spawned well over 30,000 variations on the christian theme, where the religion hosts everything from snake bit snake handlers and very vocal tongue-speakers to dudes in popemobiles and tv evangelists. The only common thread being their request for money.

Now, toss into the mix science, which explains everything better than 2,000 year old sheepherders, and atheism trumps the living daylights out of all religion.

I know you wanted only a paragraph, but sadly, reality isn't simple enough to write Cliff Note versions of Cliff Notes. I had to make it at least this long just to cover the basics.

Added: In a post above, you said we all rely on faith. Yes I do. Faith in my friends, faith that I won't die in a car wreck when I go to the store, etc. Friends have failed me, and though I've been lucky, others haven't made it to the store. So even the faith we rely on is far from infallible. And it in no way resembles the faith of the religious, which is the only thing they have to work with because their god won't show up and say hi. That faith is very different than my faith in the blandness of a McDonalds hamburger.

Wow there is a lot going on in what you said that I didn't understand.......  I guess I'll start from the bottom...


I was just stating that for anyone to disclaim faith would be foolish...

As far as atheism trumping all religions, and I'm sure you are aware of this, many modern day atheists have turned from atheism to agnosticism just because they were cornered into the explanation of the very beginning of time... I would like to invite you the opportunity to prove to me the origin of the universe.

Just one thing that astonishes me, is nothing in the bible has clearly been proven wrong....   If there was a single thing in the bible legitimately proven wrong, this forum probably wouldn't exist, because in proving a portion of the bible wrong, the whole religion would be torn down.  Now, it interests me that over the years, many different theories and scientific "facts" have come and gone, been proven wrong, and I am sure there will be many more to come.  But over these same years, absolutely nothing in the bible has been proven 100% wrong.  Now to me, if I were to stand out and look at the two against eachother, science and religion, I would think to myself, which one has held its ground the best.  Being that science is constantly being changed and proved wrong, I find it hard to believe that you as an atheist find it hard to believe that there could be a God.
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Offline WeZzZzRURR

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2012, 01:11:39 AM »
haha this is happening quicker than I thought, I have a fluid mechanics final tomorrow morning that I really need to study for, but I'll get on tomorrow, and try to respond to what is sure to be MANY responses. Thank you.
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Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2012, 01:18:45 AM »
WEZZ,,,,why do you rely on self projection as God (SPAG) to fill in all those enormous gaps your God has left for you? to go from just being a god in a pantheon of gods (your god had a father in the very least from scriptures) then he has evolved for lack of a better word into a single God and creator of everything....if I ever believed I would have had doubt right there.

 Where is your doubts,or even a curious nature that leads to question the gaps in the story?
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Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2012, 01:19:52 AM »
There's just far too much wrong in your last post (#16) to address.  Maybe start here:

http://www.biblicalnonsense.com/index2.html
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2012, 01:29:28 AM »
I too have to get to bed. But as for your claim that nothing in the bible has been proven wrong, I would say the astronomy and physics and chemistry and evolution prove that the creation story is wrong. Chemistry, geology, biology, paleontology and hydrology prove the flood never happened. Archaeology can't find even a hint that Moses and the gang wandered around for decades, and again, striped sticks don't make striped goats. Nor can history find Jesus.

We don't have to explain how the universe began. We're working on it though  But we only have to show evidence that the biblical version is somewhat (make that 'dearly') wanting. Science cannot explain everything, nor will it ever be able to. There's just too much of it. But given enough time, we gt enough figured out to get rid of the major mysteries. The bible just keeps falling further and further behind.

Astronomers can explain why a hundred billion galaxies formed. Your bible didn't even know there was even one. you don't have much to trump us with. In fact, you've got nothing.
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Offline WeZzZzRURR

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2012, 01:31:26 AM »
There's just far too much wrong in your last post (#16) to address.  Maybe start here:

http://www.biblicalnonsense.com/index2.html

Well if you believe what I posted to be wrong, then explain to me why it is wrong, please don't send me off to someone else's website for their opinions and beliefs and interpretations of the bible, please enlighten me as to how you believe what I stated was wrong... I could very easily send you off on your merry way to a book someone else's opinions, but I want you to hear mine.  All I'm trying to say is that honestly think about it, this forum really wouldn't exist in the manner that it presently does had any part of the bible been proved 100% incorrect.  Last post, studying time! lol stop distracting me.. =P
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Offline WeZzZzRURR

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2012, 01:35:14 AM »
I too have to get to bed. But as for your claim that nothing in the bible has been proven wrong, I would say the astronomy and physics and chemistry and evolution prove that the creation story is wrong. Chemistry, geology, biology, paleontology and hydrology prove the flood never happened. Archaeology can't find even a hint that Moses and the gang wandered around for decades, and again, striped sticks don't make striped goats. Nor can history find Jesus.

We don't have to explain how the universe began. We're working on it though  But we only have to show evidence that the biblical version is somewhat (make that 'dearly') wanting. Science cannot explain everything, nor will it ever be able to. There's just too much of it. But given enough time, we gt enough figured out to get rid of the major mysteries. The bible just keeps falling further and further behind.

Astronomers can explain why a hundred billion galaxies formed. Your bible didn't even know there was even one. you don't have much to trump us with. In fact, you've got nothing.

UGHHHH stop I really need to study! haha

All of those fields of study that you just mentioned to me are subject to the ideal that science will not be able to explain everything, as you said. Secondly, I would like to see your proof behind those statements as to how those various things proof  those things wrong, just like you would like to see proof of anything that I list as a fact.
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Offline Star Stuff

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2012, 01:38:18 AM »
All I'm trying to say is that honestly think about it, this forum really wouldn't exist in the manner that it presently does had any part of the bible been proved 100% incorrect. 

That makes no sense whatsoever.  Astrology has been shown to be false, yet there's lot's of people who believe it.
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Offline WeZzZzRURR

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2012, 01:50:27 AM »
All I'm trying to say is that honestly think about it, this forum really wouldn't exist in the manner that it presently does had any part of the bible been proved 100% incorrect. 

That makes no sense whatsoever.  Astrology has been shown to be false, yet there's lot's of people who believe it.

lol I don't think I'm going to be doing any studying tonight... =P

First off, I would like to point out 2 differing opinions between you and parkingplaces...
Astronomers can explain why a hundred billion galaxies formed.   you don't have much to trump us with. In fact, you've got nothing.

Do you see the problem here? Astronomy has been proven false, something I was not even aware of but okay, and yet parking places claims that it can explain why a hundred billion galaxies, a number that we couldn't even count to in our lifetime, have formed... 

Now what I was saying, is that if any part of the bible was proven 100% wrong, the Christian religion would not be as dominant as it is today, in fact, it probably wouldn't even be close......  likewise, if all religions had this aspect to them (as many already do), the need to debate over the subject would dramatically decrease, thus decreasing the forums created for such discussion and debate, thus this forum PROBABLY wouldn't exist the way it does, it would exist more as factual discussion as opposed to debate. Just saying.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2012, 01:52:42 AM »
Okay, things may start getting rough now. When you return, please provide us something that proves to you, outside of the bible, that the flood actually occurred. Explain what sort of phenomena you would expect to see worldwide that proves that the earth was once under miles of water, explain why there are no marsupials anywhere near Mr. Ararat, explain why we have many millions of dinosaur and other critter fossils (ostensibly caused by the flood, as per other christians on this site) but no human fossils are mixed in with them. Explain why there is no genetic evidence that points to the human population being down to seven people 4,000 years ago, how the Chinese, whose history goes back before the flood survived, how the Egyptians, whose history predates the flood, survived, how the people of the America's, whose history goes back far further, survived, how the cave painting in France, much older than even Eden, survived untouched, how the peoples of what is now Scandinavia and England and Ireland and Germany and Russia and Africa survived the flood. Because there was no disruption in their history.  Explain where the water came from, how the fresh water fish survived saltier water, how salt water fish survived less salty water, how the plants survived being drowned and made an immediate comeback, where the water went, why ice cores drilled out of Greenland ice fields that go back over a million years show no such flood, why there is no, and I repeat, no geology that indicates that there was ever such a flood, no hydrology that indicates a flood, no biology that indicates that there was a flood, no chemistry indicates that there was a flood, no nothing but one old book that says that there was a flood.

Your book. Our earth. How you gonna win?

Proving the bible 100% is easy. Finding ways to explain it to you and your brethren. That's the impossible part.
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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2012, 02:01:40 AM »
That makes no sense whatsoever.  Astrology has been shown to be false, yet there's lot's of people who believe it.

First off, I would like to point out 2 differing opinions between you and parkingplaces...
Astronomers can explain why a hundred billion galaxies formed.   you don't have much to trump us with. In fact, you've got nothing.

Do you see the problem here? Astronomy has been proven false, something I was not even aware of but okay, and yet parking places claims that it can explain why a hundred billion galaxies, a number that we couldn't even count to in our lifetime, have formed... 

Now what I was saying, is that if any part of the bible was proven 100% wrong, the Christian religion would not be as dominant as it is today, in fact, it probably wouldn't even be close......  likewise, if all religions had this aspect to them (as many already do), the need to debate over the subject would dramatically decrease, thus decreasing the forums created for such discussion and debate, thus this forum PROBABLY wouldn't exist the way it does, it would exist more as factual discussion as opposed to debate. Just saying.

You need to read a little more carefully. Star Stuff said ASTROLOGY has been proven false, not ASTRONOMY. Big difference. And his point flew right over your head because of it.

And might doesn't make right. Lots more folks used to think slavery was just dandy. It took a minority to reduce the negative effect of that dastardly social experiment. Gobs of people love NASCAR. That doesn't make it good. Just loud.

You can imagine you have safety in numbers, but that only works when you're burning people at the stake. Once you made the mistake of stopping that, we atheists got to speak out without dying. And scientists too got to survive long enough to teach truths. We're making progress. The only thing in our way is the people who think progress is pulling us out of the dark ages too fast.
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Offline WeZzZzRURR

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2012, 02:10:05 AM »
Okay, things may start getting rough now. When you return, please provide us something that proves to you, outside of the bible, that the flood actually occurred. Explain what sort of phenomena you would expect to see worldwide that proves that the earth was once under miles of water, explain why there are no marsupials anywhere near Mr. Ararat, explain why we have many millions of dinosaur and other critter fossils (ostensibly caused by the flood, as per other christians on this site) but no human fossils are mixed in with them. Explain why there is no genetic evidence that points to the human population being down to seven people 4,000 years ago, how the Chinese, whose history goes back before the flood survived, how the Egyptians, whose history predates the flood, survived, how the people of the America's, whose history goes back far further, survived, how the cave painting in France, much older than even Eden, survived untouched, how the peoples of what is now Scandinavia and England and Ireland and Germany and Russia and Africa survived the flood. Because there was no disruption in their history.  Explain where the water came from, how the fresh water fish survived saltier water, how salt water fish survived less salty water, how the plants survived being drowned and made an immediate comeback, where the water went, why ice cores drilled out of Greenland ice fields that go back over a million years show no such flood, why there is no, and I repeat, no geology that indicates that there was ever such a flood, no hydrology that indicates a flood, no biology that indicates that there was a flood, no chemistry indicates that there was a flood, no nothing but one old book that says that there was a flood.

Your book. Our earth. How you gonna win?

Proving the bible 100% is easy. Finding ways to explain it to you and your brethren. That's the impossible part.

Well basically what your asking me to do is go research around, which is probably what you did in using all those arguments against this, and give you an answer, one that you probably won't accept because of the fact that its from some website, just like many of those things you just referenced are probably from a website....

I really find debating over the validity of the bible to be extremely ineffective because it just comes down to a website war where we each send each other off to a different website...  From the little research I have conducted on the matter, I came across many websites going into detail the proof that our world went through a world-wide flood, and quite frankly, I'm not going to bother reading it....

I really don't like to debate about the validity of the bible, because no one ever wins..... Interpretation of the bible is up to each individual person reading it, its really hard to settle on one single interpretation....

If at all possible I would really like to veer back to the topic of God, not the bible.

And by God, I mean in a general sense, as not just the Christian God, but why you do not believe in any God, the definition of atheism.....

And to add to some of the previous posts, I don't think that it is that I do not believe in other Gods, I just believe that they are other people's representations of God, and my representation of God is probably different than a lot of people in my religion too.

Things can get rough, I don't mind it, I'm good at keeping calm, at the end of the day, you will believe what you believe and I will believe what I believe, why fight each other over it? =)
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Offline WeZzZzRURR

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2012, 02:11:55 AM »
To add to that, if I fought you over your belief being different from mine, what does that make me?    :o
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