Author Topic: Someone...  (Read 28156 times)

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Offline Jag

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #348 on: September 01, 2014, 08:26:21 AM »

I do like to point out that just because we have not found any evidence for a God does not proof its absence.
Ah yes, this one never gets old...

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Maybe, science can proof the existence of God,
As a byproduct of scientific research, perhaps.

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but what I mean with God is not the God people refer to (i.e. Yahweh, Jehovah and Allah).
Believe it or not, this ^^^ is true of pretty much every theist ever. Each one has their own unique take on belief and religion and what is meant by the term "god".

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I believe that humans' spiritual development  (which I think is equivalent to the development of our brains), generally speaking, is still in its infancy. By spirituality I mean our capability to focus, to have control over our thoughts. There are really interesting documentaries regarding these matters in the field of Quantum Physics. To me this is, kind of, my definition of when I say God. So when I say that science may proof the existence of God, I mean that it may proof the extend of our spiritual/mental capabilities. The effects that our thoughts and believes can have on our daily lives.

Please elaborate on this. I don't see the connection you are making between spirituality and ... well, anything.
"Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky that created the entire universe and the majority believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." ~George Carlin

Offline wiswit

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #349 on: September 01, 2014, 09:54:34 AM »
Quantum physics has nothing to do with a human's ability to focus and/or control his or her thoughts. You're thinking of neuroscience, which is in the realm of biology. Two separate fields of study.
EDIT: Out of curiosity (among other things), why exactly did you think that quantum physics had anything to do with neuroscience?

What I once saw in a documentary was that Quantum physics is used to explain consciousness and our perception of reality. I believe they talked about the effects of meditation (which is a form of controlling ones thoughts, ) and our belief on the perception of reality. Through neuroscience they studied how thoughts influence a reality that a human perceives. So that is how I saw their correlation.

I don't know if I fully understood everything, but this is what I got from it  ;D
Kill one man, you are a murderer
Kill a million, and you are a Conqueror
Kill them all, and you are a God

~Jean Rostand (Thoughts of a Biologist, 1938)

Online One Above All

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #350 on: September 01, 2014, 09:57:24 AM »
What I once saw in a documentary was that Quantum physics is used to explain consciousness and our perception of reality. I believe they talked about the effects of meditation (which is a form of controlling ones thoughts, ) and our belief on the perception of reality. Through neuroscience they studied how thoughts influence a reality that a human perceives. So that is how I saw their correlation.

I don't know if I fully understood everything, but this is what I got from it  ;D

Yeah... the "documentary" was bullshit. Nothing but woo.
My names are many, yet I am One.
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Offline wiswit

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #351 on: September 01, 2014, 10:20:32 AM »
What I once saw in a documentary was that Quantum physics is used to explain consciousness and our perception of reality. I believe they talked about the effects of meditation (which is a form of controlling ones thoughts, ) and our belief on the perception of reality. Through neuroscience they studied how thoughts influence a reality that a human perceives. So that is how I saw their correlation.

I don't know if I fully understood everything, but this is what I got from it  ;D

Yeah... the "documentary" was bullshit. Nothing but woo.

Which part of it and why?
Kill one man, you are a murderer
Kill a million, and you are a Conqueror
Kill them all, and you are a God

~Jean Rostand (Thoughts of a Biologist, 1938)

Online One Above All

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #352 on: September 01, 2014, 10:26:49 AM »
Which part of it and why?

The part that attempted to link quantum physics (emphasis on physics) with neurobiology (emphasis on biology).
Quantum physics doesn't explain consciousness. The explanation for that biological property of humans (and some other species) belongs in the realm of biology. Hence the "biological" in "biological property".

Rule of thumb:
Whenever you hear the word "quantum" - or any term derived from it - applied to anything but physics, you know you've entered the realm of bullshit. If you hear it in a sci-fi movie, it's most likely bullshit as well. And if it's an attempt to explain free will, or "god", or superpowers (like the 10% brain myth, which often entails the notion that, if humans used 100%, they would have superpowers for some reason), it's definitely, 100%, without a doubt, grade A bullshit.
My names are many, yet I am One.
-Orion, son of Fire and Light, Sol Invictus.

Religions need books because they don't have gods.

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Offline wiswit

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #353 on: September 01, 2014, 11:27:47 AM »
Believe it or not, this ^^^ is true of pretty much every theist ever. Each one has their own unique take on belief and religion and what is meant by the term "god".
What I was trying to point out with this statement is that I do not believe in God as a creator or something that holds records of what we do during our lifetimes, as people who believe in monotheistic religions do.

Please elaborate on this. I don't see the connection you are making between spirituality and ... well, anything.

Sorry for being confusing. Still working on this point, bear with me  :P
Kill one man, you are a murderer
Kill a million, and you are a Conqueror
Kill them all, and you are a God

~Jean Rostand (Thoughts of a Biologist, 1938)

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #354 on: September 01, 2014, 12:37:35 PM »
Could this catastrophe of anti-thought be the movie you had the misfortune to sit through?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Bleep_Do_We_Know!
I always say what I mean. But sometimes I'm a sarcastic prick whose tone can't be properly communicated via text.

Offline wiswit

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #355 on: September 01, 2014, 12:45:52 PM »
Guilty, that and part 2......No good source?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 12:50:29 PM by wiswit »
Kill one man, you are a murderer
Kill a million, and you are a Conqueror
Kill them all, and you are a God

~Jean Rostand (Thoughts of a Biologist, 1938)

Offline eh!

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #356 on: September 01, 2014, 06:58:02 PM »
because new age baby boomers have embraced the idea of the probability spectrum of solutions in quantum systems and  wave function collapse to mean they can create their own universe using positive thoughts - WOO.

old song, new more "sciencey" sounding version.

all very boring and misguided....and WRONG.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 07:01:43 PM by eh! »
some skepisms,
1. "I have not seen God. I have felt the invisible presence"
2. What if there is a rock in the middle of a road, a blind person is speeding towards it, ...they say that they can't see it.   Would you recommend him to keep speeding?

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #357 on: September 01, 2014, 10:55:40 PM »
Guilty, that and part 2......No good source?

No good source for what claim?
I always say what I mean. But sometimes I'm a sarcastic prick whose tone can't be properly communicated via text.

Offline wiswit

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #358 on: September 03, 2014, 03:21:47 AM »
The part that attempted to link quantum physics (emphasis on physics) with neurobiology (emphasis on biology).
Quantum physics doesn't explain consciousness. The explanation for that biological property of humans (and some other species) belongs in the realm of biology. Hence the "biological" in "biological property".

This claim, and I guess sort of the claim laid out by eh!
Kill one man, you are a murderer
Kill a million, and you are a Conqueror
Kill them all, and you are a God

~Jean Rostand (Thoughts of a Biologist, 1938)

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #359 on: September 03, 2014, 04:50:01 AM »
You are aware that "eh!", "One Above All", and "Azdgari" are accounts run by three different people, are you not?
I always say what I mean. But sometimes I'm a sarcastic prick whose tone can't be properly communicated via text.

Online One Above All

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #360 on: September 03, 2014, 04:55:33 AM »
You are aware that "eh!", "One Above All", and "Azdgari" are accounts run by three different people, are you not?

Or are they?... &)
My names are many, yet I am One.
-Orion, son of Fire and Light, Sol Invictus.

Religions need books because they don't have gods.

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Offline wiswit

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #361 on: September 03, 2014, 05:10:06 AM »
You are aware that "eh!", "One Above All", and "Azdgari" are accounts run by three different people, are you not?

Lol... Yes I was aware of that fact. A few posts ago I made a link between quantum physics and consciousness, because I had the misfortune that watch that catastrophe of anti-thought movie.  And since the three of you pointed out that that documentary is well, bullshit, I began questioning the source (i.e. documentary) for my claims (i.e. link quantum physics and consciousness).
Kill one man, you are a murderer
Kill a million, and you are a Conqueror
Kill them all, and you are a God

~Jean Rostand (Thoughts of a Biologist, 1938)

Online One Above All

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #362 on: September 03, 2014, 05:23:28 AM »
You are aware that "eh!", "One Above All", and "Azdgari" are accounts run by three different people, are you not?

Lol... Yes I was aware of that fact. A few posts ago I made a link between quantum physics and consciousness, because I had the misfortune that watch that catastrophe of anti-thought movie.  And since the three of you pointed out that that documentary is well, bullshit, I began questioning the source (i.e. documentary) for my claims (i.e. link quantum physics and consciousness).

Crack open a physics textbook and search for what quantum physics is. Do research before assuming any self-entitled documentary is accurate.
NOTE: Don't try to understand quantum physics in its entirety, especially from a single book. Just what it is.
My names are many, yet I am One.
-Orion, son of Fire and Light, Sol Invictus.

Religions need books because they don't have gods.

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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #363 on: September 03, 2014, 09:03:51 AM »
Even though I've had a crush on Marlee Matlin since she made the movie that got her an academy award (I forget the name of it), and even though I used to live in the Portland, Oregon area and was familiar with many of the locations used when they shot the movie (always cool), the movie was still crap. New age mumbo-jumbo mixed with unadulterated crap. Mr. and Mrs. Google should be able to help you sort it out.
What I lack in sophistication I make up for with other shortcomings.

Offline wiswit

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #364 on: September 03, 2014, 03:34:39 PM »
Crack open a physics textbook and search for what quantum physics is. Do research before assuming any self-entitled documentary is accurate.
NOTE: Don't try to understand quantum physics in its entirety, especially from a single book. Just what it is.

Since your first post I actually looked into some textbooks, searched for any connections between quantum physics and consciousness. I cannot deny that I did assume that documentary to be accurate... :-[

In one textbook (introduction to quantum mechanics - Griffiths, 1995), that is taught at our university, the preface actually says the following:
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There is no general consensus as to what its fundamental principles are, how it should be taught, or what it really "means". Every competent physicist can "do" quantum mechanics, but the stories we tell ourselves about what we are doing are as various as the tales of Scheherazade, and almost as implausible.

After reading such a preface, and looking through the table of contents, I came to the conclusion that indeed, as correctly pointed out by you guys, I did not understand what quantum physics does, let along what it means. I will remember your advice One Above All, thanks  ;)
Kill one man, you are a murderer
Kill a million, and you are a Conqueror
Kill them all, and you are a God

~Jean Rostand (Thoughts of a Biologist, 1938)

Offline Tinyal

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #365 on: September 03, 2014, 07:09:28 PM »
Very refreshing from wiswit (theist?  deist?  just guessing) , to hear someone say they really didn't understand a subject (and, by extension, perhaps they will learn more).
Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water?

Offline wiswit

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #366 on: September 03, 2014, 08:38:27 PM »
Very refreshing from wiswit (theist?  deist?  just guessing) , to hear someone say they really didn't understand a subject (and, by extension, perhaps they will learn more).

Now that I think about it, the idea of the existence of God used to seem plausible to me (in a theist way), without ever reading any of the religious books myself (except a little bit in primary school). My religious knowledge was, to a large extend still is, based on what I have heard/ hear from people around me.

Even though my parents are religious (however not typical) I was not raised religiously. As I grew a little older, the concept of a deist seemed more plausible. I say seemed because I never really was associated with religion in a way that would affect my life seriously, but it just made more sense somehow...

However, recently I have given it quite some thought. I joined this forum because a friend of mine who is also active suggested that I should look at some of the posts and I found them very interesting. It is motivating me to think about religion, and helping me to understand certain matters about it. The more I think about religion though, the less sense (monotheistic) religion seem make to me. At this point, I think, the closest that I would associate myself with would be with an atheist.

However, I am still confused...the fact that Jag did not understand anything I was trying to say is because I dont fully get it myself yet... :P. So I am here trying to change that, which of course, requires lots of learning  ;D
Kill one man, you are a murderer
Kill a million, and you are a Conqueror
Kill them all, and you are a God

~Jean Rostand (Thoughts of a Biologist, 1938)

Offline Foxy Freedom

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #367 on: September 03, 2014, 11:30:29 PM »
at our university

If you have access to a university library, you should read the book, The Early History of God by Mark Smith, which explains how Yahweh was invented by merging the attributes of other gods. There are also some simpler books about Asherah, originally the wife of El/Yahweh.

It is motivating me to think about religion, and helping me to understand certain matters about it. The more I think about religion though, the less sense (monotheistic) religion seem make to me. At this point, I think, the closest that I would associate myself with would be with an atheist.

However, I am still confused...the fact that Jag did not understand anything I was trying to say is because I dont fully get it myself yet... :P. So I am here trying to change that, which of course, requires lots of learning  ;D

The basis of atheism is evidence. It should not be thought of as a belief based on vague ideas. I think you have been relying on emotions to lead you, which they can, but evidence is what gives you the firm foundation of knowledge.
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Offline Jag

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Re: Someone...
« Reply #368 on: September 05, 2014, 06:55:30 PM »
However, I am still confused...the fact that Jag did not understand anything I was trying to say is because I dont fully get it myself yet... :P. So I am here trying to change that, which of course, requires lots of learning  ;D

Glad to read that you are giving all of this more thought. Particularly pleased that you are making an effort to learn more. Welcome to our little corner of the web.
"Tell people that there's an invisible man in the sky that created the entire universe and the majority believe you. Tell them the paint is wet, and they have to touch it to be sure." ~George Carlin