Author Topic: I finally have the mind to post this:  (Read 496 times)

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Offline Hatter23

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I finally have the mind to post this:
« on: June 01, 2012, 09:59:40 PM »
I went through something terrible recently, just 3 weeks ago my father died. There was a very kind priest, a citizen of the Congo, that was visiting him daily along with my mother, my brother, and myself. His brothers and sister visited pretty regularly as well. However, when the doctors called us into the room seconds after he had died, and they hadn't even removed the breathing tube yet the rising and falling of his chest giving the illusion of life.

Several relative were gathered round his body, and it was beginning to cool. Something about Obama coming out to support gay marriage had, somehow, come up. So there's my dad, lying there, not an hour since he was passed surrounded by people agreeing with each other about how awful gay marriage is. Not looking at him, not crying, not remembering him, but instead agreeing that it was a bad thing for people to have equal rights, and at the center of this conversation was an African. You might think he would have second thoughts about declaring how awful it is for people to have equal rights.

And I knew it was my responsibility to shut up, that I would have been considered the bad seed to voice any opposition at such a moment, because dad was a Catholic and I was the only non-catholic in the room.

As far as I am concerned, this demonstrates the poison that is religion.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

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Offline Traveler

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Re: I finally have the mind to post this:
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2012, 10:10:51 PM »
I'm so very, very sorry for your loss. And so sorry for the insensitivity of those around you at his bedside.
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Offline Backspace

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Re: I finally have the mind to post this:
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2012, 10:21:22 PM »
I'm so very, very sorry for your loss. And so sorry for the insensitivity of those around you at his bedside.

Ditto, very sad indeed.  My condolance on your loss.
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Offline BaalServant

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Re: I finally have the mind to post this:
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2012, 10:25:52 PM »
Very sorry to hear this, Hatter.  I hope you're getting by.

Three weeks ago, my uncle unexpectedly died.  We were at my grandmother's house, not 8 hours later, and my mother in law began to say to my grandmother, "Well, if you believe in the lord, you can always hope that he cried out . . ." 

I couldn't believe she was going to try to turn this situation into a sermon, and was about to voice my concerns that now wasn't the time, but my grandmother beat me to it.  She cut the sermon short right there and said my uncle died in his sleep and didn't believe in god, conversation over. 
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: I finally have the mind to post this:
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2012, 10:59:23 PM »
I'm sad that you felt the need to keep silent and let the voice of insanity ring out unchallenged. Was that an appropriate time or place to speak up? Hell yes. Anywhere THEY can spout their hateful rhetoric, WE must stand up against it.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Hatter23

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Re: I finally have the mind to post this:
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2012, 11:16:26 PM »
I'm sad that you felt the need to keep silent and let the voice of insanity ring out unchallenged. Was that an appropriate time or place to speak up? Hell yes. Anywhere THEY can spout their hateful rhetoric, WE must stand up against it.

You are welcome to alienate all of your family and everyone around you. Hope your righteous indignation can keep you company at night, I however need my loved ones.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline JeffPT

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Re: I finally have the mind to post this:
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2012, 11:37:37 PM »
I'm not sure what makes me feel more sadness... The fact that your father passed away or the fact that you can't tell your loved one's how you really feel for fear of being alienated by them.  Both are tragedies. 

Sorry for your loss. 
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: I finally have the mind to post this:
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2012, 01:27:50 AM »
You are welcome to alienate all of your family and everyone around you. Hope your righteous indignation can keep you company at night, I however need my loved ones.

They only love you because they don't know you. Think about that.
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Offline Hatter23

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Re: I finally have the mind to post this:
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2012, 02:07:36 AM »
You are welcome to alienate all of your family and everyone around you. Hope your righteous indignation can keep you company at night, I however need my loved ones.

They only love you because they don't know you. Think about that.
One: at least the closest ones do know I am a non-believer and even my father was mildly pushing me to go back in the church within a day or two before his death. Not much, a sentence or two while the priest was around. Compared to the number of expression of affection and love that he made, it was trivial. Two: the whole of my being is not defined by the fact I am free from a rather common delusion.

If I made a stink about it at that juncture of time, I would have been the drama whore, the fundamentalist prat, despite the shit they were talking. I am not going to be like them and allow my metaphysical stance become a platform for dissent and strife.

I am better than they are. And when my Sister in Law's Mother does try to press the issue home she gets an earful. At least she's gotten it from me the last two times she's tried, she at least either had the class, or had learned her lesson about trying me on; because this time she didn't do so at the viewing or the funeral.

It is a matter of just keeping it off the radar, of not constantly reminding them that I just think their deeply held beliefs are  so much superstitious nonsense. And If they ask me? Well, they deserve my answer.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 02:14:39 AM by Hatter23 »
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline kin hell

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Re: I finally have the mind to post this:
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2012, 04:34:53 AM »
sorry for your loss bloke

re: bedside manner   
monkeys really are socially limited and inapt at times,
I hope you find some consolation in the knowledge that you were obviously the higher primate in the room at the time.
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Offline Quesi

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Re: I finally have the mind to post this:
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2012, 05:36:27 AM »
I am so sorry about the death of your father.  I am glad that in his last days and weeks, he was surrounded by those who loved him. 

I am profoundly sorry that this tragic moment in your life was made even more painful by the ignorance and hateful speech of others. 

Offline Seppuku

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Re: I finally have the mind to post this:
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2012, 06:03:16 AM »
I am sorry for your loss dude, I am glad to hear you had a good relationship with him despite your differences. I think it speaks words about their religious delusion, unfortunately blood is thicker than water and families need each other and are still capable of getting along great despite any differences. It's sad to see they made those ignorant, hateful and distasteful comments. I'm sure you didn't feel proud of them for that moment. As they say you can choose your friends but not your family. :) Regardless of that, it seems you've got a good relationship with them anyway and that's a valuable thing to have.
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: I finally have the mind to post this:
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2012, 08:23:31 AM »
I'm sorry for your loss Hatter. I hope you're seeking comfort from those you love.

It sucks that they chose that moment in time to discuss politics. I'm sure you would have been equally insulted if they picked any other topic other than your father. IMO it's the wrong place or time to discuss anything at a time like that other than your love and sorrow over the loss of a loved one. But I agree with you in the sense that majority rules and in a moment such as that you can't become the punching bag. If you had interjected your voice of reason you would have found yourself not only isolated but probably insulted for not "respecting your father at a time like this and starting a disagreement." We all know you would have been right to do so, but that doesn't mean it would have been best to do so. I'm proud that you were able to pick your battles. Perhaps after things settle and little time has passed you can tell them how you felt about that situation.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: I finally have the mind to post this:
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2012, 01:03:26 PM »
I am sorry for your loss, Hatter.  It was a nice thing that he had his family around him. 

I do not think it was your responsibility to shut up.  As his son, you are one of the people most affected by the man's passing.  It was their responsibility to be considerate and sensitive of your feelings.  I also do not think you were obligated to heighten the stress by making a religious confrontation.

Do you think you could have pointed out to them how insensitive they were being for discussing politics at such an inappropriate time, without making it an atheist sermon?  I find people are reluctant to chastise rude people because they ironically don't want to be rude themselves. 

You have an opportunity to lay a guilt trip on them individually now, at least.  And that can subtly point out the religious aspects.

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Offline rickymooston

Re: I finally have the mind to post this:
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2012, 06:41:08 PM »
And I knew it was my responsibility to shut up, that I would have been considered the bad seed to voice any opposition at such a moment, because dad was a Catholic and I was the only non-catholic in the room.

As far as I am concerned, this demonstrates the poison that is religion.

You know, it really isn't so much you'd be a "bad seed" as that your dad just died and it was an inappropriate time for conflict or political discussion.

If you were to express your sentiments, it is totally unlikely that you would, assuming that nobody else in the room is a closet atheist, change minds

Your dad's death will stick with you the rest of your life and its good you do not have memories of an argument associated with it.

Your opinion on gay marriage is the right one IMO. It is not about straights at all. Society has realized that gays exist and they are often pretty normal people.

It sucks that death is a part of life. Take care.
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Offline stuffin

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Re: I finally have the mind to post this:
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2012, 10:45:55 PM »
Take your father with you through the rest of your life.

You chose correctly not to speak up, choosing when to fight is as important at fighting.
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Offline EV

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Re: I finally have the mind to post this:
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2012, 05:43:11 AM »
Hatter, the loss of a loved one is one of the worst things a person can go through in their lives. I'm shocked that you had to go through that at such a disgustingly inappropriate moment, where your family should have been thinking about your father.

All I can say is stay strong. I think you did right to remain quiet through that. If it gets to you too much, maybe a quiet word in a few weeks with someone who was involved to air your grievances (bad choice of words there) might help alleviate the burden.

In the meantime, we're all here for you.
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