Author Topic: 78% of Americans are idiots  (Read 1814 times)

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Offline joebbowers

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78% of Americans are idiots
« on: June 01, 2012, 09:17:44 PM »
http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/Hold-Creationist-View-Human-Origins.aspx

According to the latest Gallup poll, 46% of Americans believe in the literal Adam and Eve creationist fairy tale, while another 32% believe that mankind's evolution was guided by God. Is it any wonder that Americans are considered stupid by the rest of the world?

Reading numbers like that it makes me feel so lucky to live in China. Not allowing freedom of religion is one thing the Communist Party has done right.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Bad Pear

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2012, 09:34:05 PM »
Not allowing freedom of religion is one thing the Communist Party has done right.

No, it's not. In fact one could make an argument that the very real persecution[1] of the religious here helps to swell their numbers. In any case, who are you to tell someone else[2] that they don't have the right to practice their faith or lack-thereof.

You also shouldn't think for a second that just because many people here are non-theists that they are automatically more intelligent or skeptical than the average American. My wife and I are expats in The Big Red too, and while there are truly brilliant people here there are just as many gullible fools, relative to the population[3], as there are in the States. From astrology, to intolerance, to traditional Chinese "medicine", to (need I go on?), China is in no short supply of irrational people.

Your posts reeks of the same kind of bigotry and ignorance that you would presumably chastise a Christian poster for.
 1. as opposed to the "persecution" of Christians in the States
 2. or support a government for doing so
 3. and considering the population difference that makes for a lot more fools
Atheism is not a mission to convert the world. It only seems that way because when other religions implode, atheism is what is left behind

Offline Nam

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2012, 09:40:13 PM »
'Cause all religious people live and breed in the United States. Let's forget all the religious states out there, or all the nations that are 90%+ one religion over another. Nope, just the U.S.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

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Offline Backspace

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2012, 10:26:28 PM »
Not allowing freedom of religion is one thing the Communist Party has done right.

Been to Tibet or Nepal lately?
There is no opinion so absurd that a preacher could not express it.
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Offline Bad Pear

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2012, 10:41:43 PM »
Not allowing freedom of religion is one thing the Communist Party has done right.

I just feel that this needs to be quoted a third time. This statement is blowing my mind.
Atheism is not a mission to convert the world. It only seems that way because when other religions implode, atheism is what is left behind

Offline joebbowers

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2012, 11:02:54 PM »
Been to Tibet or Nepal lately?

Neither of those places are China.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Timo

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2012, 11:07:54 PM »
Not allowing freedom of religion is one thing the Communist Party has done right.

I just feel that this needs to be quoted a third time. This statement is blowing my mind.

I'm saying though.
Nah son...

Offline Backspace

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2012, 11:11:20 PM »
Been to Tibet or Nepal lately?

Neither of those places are China.

No, but China is most definitely in those two places.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/mar/14/tibet.china2
Quote
Though Tibet is called an "autonomous" region, Tibetans see the Chinese to be in control.
http://www.worldpoliticsreview.com/articles/4936/china-seeks-to-secure-its-role-in-nepal
Quote
Hardly a month goes by now without a high-level Chinese delegation arriving in Kathmandu seeking assurances on its security interests.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 11:19:05 PM by Backspace »
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2012, 11:15:06 PM »
In any case, who are you to tell someone else that they don't have the right to practice their faith or lack-thereof.

Who is a doctor to cure cancer? How dare he presume to interfere! Religion is harmful. It should be discouraged, supressed, and banned at every opportunity. Like racism and sexism (which are core components of the major religions), religion shouldn't get a free pass, sorry.

You also shouldn't think for a second that just because many people here are non-theists that they are automatically more intelligent or skeptical than the average American.

I never said Chinese people were smarter than Americans in general, but I hold them in a higher esteem than Americans specifically with regard to their non-belief in the creationist tripe and Christianity in general. Christians in Chinese society are laughed at and their beliefs are not respected. They are thought to be stupid by most people. As they should be.

Your posts reeks of the same kind of bigotry and ignorance that you would presumably chastise a Christian poster for.

How am I being ignorant? I know full well the danger and harm of religion. It's a cancer that must be cured.

Are you saying that religion deserves respect? Specifically which aspect of it? And how do you plan to seperate those good aspects from the bad?
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 11:18:22 PM by joebbowers »
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline joebbowers

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2012, 11:16:46 PM »
No, but China is most definitely in those two places.

What's your point?
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Backspace

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2012, 11:35:27 PM »
What's your point?

The Chinese government is snuffing religious freedoms in it's neighboring states. IMO, discrimination is a bad thing - even worse when it's sanctioned by the government.  My right to be an atheist is as important as my neighbor's right to be a religious fundamentalist.
There is no opinion so absurd that a preacher could not express it.
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Offline Bad Pear

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2012, 11:38:29 PM »
Who is a doctor to cure cancer? How dare he presume to interfere! Religion is harmful. It should be discouraged, supressed, and banned at every opportunity. Like racism and sexism (which are core components of the major religions), religion shouldn't get a free pass, sorry.

Sorry, but you are no doctor. Religion does not get a free pass. However, just like racism and sexism, it should not be illegal. Discouraged? Absolutely. Banned? I don't think so. Do you realize that your same line of thinking could be used to persecute you if you happened to reside in a theocratic nation? The only reason that you are supporting China's draconian approach to religion is because you don't fall into one of the groups that they censor.

How am I being ignorant? I know full well the danger and harm of religion. It's a cancer that must be cured.

You are apparently very ignorant of the reasons why we hold the freedom of religion so dear. You know full well the potential dangers of religion, but you are hilariously uninformed when if comes to the potential dangers of policies which you support.

Are you saying that religion deserves respect? Specifically which aspect of it? And how do you plan to seperate those good aspects from the bad?

Don't be obtuse. I never said religion deserves respect. Quite the opposite actually.
 
Religion is ignorance. The only cure for ignorance is education. Any suppression of the free exchange of ideas is the antithesis of education. Advocating the banning of any idea is the exact opposite of what you want to do. That is assuming you are actually serious about solving the problem, rather than merely banging your chest saying "I don't like how you think, I think I'll put you in prison".
Atheism is not a mission to convert the world. It only seems that way because when other religions implode, atheism is what is left behind

Offline Bad Pear

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2012, 11:44:54 PM »
My right to be an atheist is as important as my neighbor's right to be a religious fundamentalist.

Emphasis mine.

I'm quoting this not only because I agree with it, but because I wish to head off a distinction that I think Joe is missing. The religious should have the right to be religious. That includes gathering with those of a like mind and being able to openly talk about what they are. They should not have the right to do as they please according to their faith. The same principle applies to the non-religious and those of any other ideology.[1]
 1. Passive versus active verbs. Isn't grammar fun.
Atheism is not a mission to convert the world. It only seems that way because when other religions implode, atheism is what is left behind

Offline Nam

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2012, 11:49:34 PM »
Who is a doctor to cure cancer? How dare he presume to interfere! Religion is harmful. It should be discouraged, supressed, and banned at every opportunity. Like racism and sexism (which are core components of the major religions), religion shouldn't get a free pass, sorry.

And surpressing freedom of speech isn't as bad as religion, or sexism, or racism? And, the Chinese government has never been racist or sexist before?

And, if China has gotten all the religion out of China then what's up with the Muslim population, I think in the west of the country, and the Christian population spread throughout? Oh, let's not forget the Buddhist population.

Quote
I never said Chinese people were smarter than Americans in general, but I hold them in a higher esteem than Americans specifically with regard to their non-belief in the creationist tripe and Christianity in general. Christians in Chinese society are laughed at and their beliefs are not respected. They are thought to be stupid by most people. As they should be.

I find you to be stupid.

Quote
How am I being ignorant? I know full well the danger and harm of religion. It's a cancer that must be cured.

You're a cancer that must be cured.

Quote
Are you saying that religion deserves respect? Specifically which aspect of it? And how do you plan to seperate those good aspects from the bad?

People in general deserve to be respected. Something the Chinese goverment, at times, seems incapable of doing. You must be the product of such idiocy.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline joebbowers

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2012, 11:55:36 PM »
Do you realize that your same line of thinking could be used to persecute you if you happened to reside in a theocratic nation?

I don't even have the energy for a sarcastic response to this. Of course I know this, it is one of the major reasons religion is harmful. The difference is that atheism and religion are not equally valid beliefs. One is right and one is wrong.

The only reason that you are supporting China's draconian approach to religion is because you don't fall into one of the groups that they censor.

Right. I'm not religious. That is obvious.

You are apparently very ignorant of the reasons why we hold the freedom of religion so dear.

I do not hold religious freedom dear. I think religious freedom is a mistake that has led to most of the world's problems. Governments are afraid to step in and stop religious groups when they start causing problems like overpopulation, poverty, and the spread of AIDS by the Catholic church by their position on contraception and abortion.

You know full well the potential dangers of religion, but you are hilariously uninformed when if comes to the potential dangers of policies which you support.

For example?
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Online ParkingPlaces

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2012, 12:24:02 AM »
Normally I would let this conversation continue to deteriorate until feelings were hurt and wars were started. But the weather is great and I'd rather do something more pleasant this weekend than nurse the wounded.

So any effort on the part of participants here to get their point across without relying on the ancient art of name calling will be greatly appreciated.

I shouldn't have to speak green to any of you. Please calm down and try again.
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Offline Nam

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2012, 12:40:01 AM »
The topic starts with name-calling. I think the boat has sailed.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

Let's get back on topic, please.


Offline Timo

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2012, 12:50:44 AM »
Indeed.
Nah son...

Offline joebbowers

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2012, 01:07:41 AM »
And surpressing freedom of speech isn't as bad as religion, or sexism, or racism?

Not when that speech incites hatred, ignorance, intolerance, racism and sexism. Freedom of speech is a right that comes with certain limitations and responsibilities. It can and should be taken away when it's abused.

And, if China has gotten all the religion out of China then what's up with the Muslim population, I think in the west of the country, and the Christian population spread throughout? Oh, let's not forget the Buddhist population.

Yes, pressure from the international community has lead to a relaxation of the anti-religious policies. Do you think this is a good thing? The spread of Islam in China has lead to acts of terrorism and violence. The Buddhist population is dying off as mostly only the elderly practice it and the younger generation has no interest in it.

Quote
Christians in Chinese society are laughed at and their beliefs are not respected. They are thought to be stupid by most people. As they should be.
I find you to be stupid.

Childish and does nothing to refute my point.

Quote
How am I being ignorant? I know full well the danger and harm of religion. It's a cancer that must be cured.
You're a cancer that must be cured.
Ditto.

People in general deserve to be respected. Something the Chinese goverment, at times, seems incapable of doing. You must be the product of such idiocy.

Did I say that I didn't respect people, or that I didn't respect religious beliefs? Did I say that I supported the Chinese government at all times? Did I even say that I supported the methods by which they enforce their anti-religious policies? Unless you're going to address my actual point I don't feel the need to respond to your strawman.
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2012, 01:13:14 AM »
I'm quoting this not only because I agree with it, but because I wish to head off a distinction that I think Joe is missing. The religious should have the right to be religious. That includes gathering with those of a like mind and being able to openly talk about what they are. They should not have the right to do as they please according to their faith. The same principle applies to the non-religious and those of any other ideology.[1]
 1. Passive versus active verbs. Isn't grammar fun.

The distinction you speak of does not exist. Religious people do not simply believe without acting on those beliefs.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Nam

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2012, 01:36:21 AM »
Not when that speech incites hatred, ignorance, intolerance, racism and sexism. Freedom of speech is a right that comes with certain limitations and responsibilities. It can and should be taken away when it's abused.

So, China has freedom of speech and only silences those who match your specific criteria of when it should be surpressed? Do I laugh now, or wait 'til later?

Quote
Yes, pressure from the international community has lead to a relaxation of the anti-religious policies. Do you think this is a good thing? The spread of Islam in China has lead to acts of terrorism and violence. The Buddhist population is dying off as mostly only the elderly practice it and the younger generation has no interest in it.

And the Chinese government, or its people, before religion came along, never commited such acts? Again: do I laugh now, or later?

Quote
Childish and does nothing to refute my point.

No, but it still shows your inane viewpoint.

Quote
Did I say that I didn't respect people, or that I didn't respect religious beliefs? Did I say that I supported the Chinese government at all times? Did I even say that I supported the methods by which they enforce their anti-religious policies? Unless you're going to address my actual point I don't feel the need to respond to your strawman.

Your responses, and the title of your OP, and your OP state in themselves that you only respect people like you, or just yourself. Your responses about how vile religion is, and people who hold such beliefs show you don't respect their beliefs.  Actually, it seems by your own words there's no fault with China 'cause they aren't a whore to religion.

You shoot yourself with your own hatred.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

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Offline joebbowers

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2012, 04:19:33 AM »
If you care to address what I've actually said instead of these strawmen you've created, I'll happily continue the debate.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Nam

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2012, 04:54:00 AM »
Y
If you care to address what I've actually said instead of these strawmen you've created, I'll happily continue the debate.

I am. You're just blind to your own ignorance.

-Nam
This thread is about lab-grown dicks, not some mincy, old, British poof of an actor. 

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Online One Above All

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #23 on: June 02, 2012, 04:59:40 AM »
If you care to address what I've actually said instead of these strawmen you've created, I'll happily continue the debate.

Ah, yes, the ultimate joebbowers defense - calling a strawman where there is none.
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Offline Seppuku

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2012, 05:10:32 AM »
Freedom of expression is important. By reducing a person's freedom of expression you're not stamping out any of their bigotries, you're just shoving it under a rug and we can all just ignore the fact they're a racist or a sexist or whatever. It's pretty much just hiding the problem. All should have the freedom to express themselves, it's not right for people to repress others. Yes, this might mean a racist has the freedom to express their racist views but that also means we have the freedom to express our disgust and explain to them exactly why this is wrong - you may convince them, you may not but at least you're not forcing them. I use the word 'freedom of expression' instead of 'freedom of speech' because with freedom of expression you can say 'no' to verbal abuse, because the verbal abuser[1] can still express their opinions, they just can't verbally abuse people. With true freedom of speech, this is not possible.

Pushing people to repress their opinions, views and feelings is not healthy either (I'm talking mental health). Demonising religion and making it evil is not much different to demonising somebody for being gay or black. Why is this? Because what you're effectively doing is discriminating against them, yes, some religious folks are bigots and are destructive, but they're not all like that - make the destruction illegal - allow them to have their opinion but don't necessarily allow them to act upon it. Although I am a big critic of religion, I also respect the freedom of religion. I don't think crushing anybody's freedom of expression creates a healthy society.


Also, when you start reducing somebody's freedom of expression, what would happen if somebody's views were misconstrued by an authority as being a violation of said freedom of expression? We can already see it where people are trying to limit freedom of expression here in the UK - like Jeremy Clarkson being accused of inciting violence and hatred because he made a joke about how protesting public sector workers should be lined up and shot in front of their families. It was only a joke. Or what if I were to express my view on the freedom of religion? Would I have to be silenced? As I'm suggesting those who wish to follow a religion, should have that right, thus attempting to undermine their system.


Also, to note, the most atheistic country in the world, Sweden, allows for freedom of religion. So I don't think we can really draw a comparison between the US and China to say, "freedom of religion is wrong". Japan, Norway, Denmark and Vietnam are high on the list as well. Yes, one of them is communist, but the others not. In fact, in the top 25 only a minority of countries are actually communist ones, they are democratic countries where people are still free to be religious.
 1. verbal abuse can actually be a very dangerous thing
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Offline shnozzola

Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2012, 06:17:10 AM »
For me, it a crazy ironic line I walk.  If a man down the street worships a rock in his back yard as the supreme being of the universe, and doesn’t bother anyone with his (in my opinion) crazy ideas, I will fight to protect his freedom to do what he wants.  The freedom to believe as he wants is the point.  I don’t know enough to be certain of any universal truth to deny another man his beliefs.  But I do not want any government, or any other man, to deny me my freedom to continue to believe in and look for universal truth.  Of course, while I do not believe in Adam and Eve, or that god exists, I am an American - which I guess gives me a better chance than most to be stupid?
« Last Edit: June 02, 2012, 06:23:31 AM by shnozzola »
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Offline screwtape

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2012, 07:43:26 AM »
Nam, Joe,

Step away from your keyboard, take a couple of deep breaths, have a drink of water.  Then, post without kicking each other in the teeth, please.

One Above All, your shots from the peanut gallery are not productive.

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Offline lotanddaughters

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2012, 09:32:03 AM »
I agree with Screw and PP. It is a nice day, you all need to chill out on the name-calling, and that peanut gallery is only making matters worse.

Now, if you take out the confrontational, opinionated portion of the OP, you are left with this:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/155003/Hold-Creationist-View-Human-Origins.aspx

According to the latest Gallup poll, 46% of Americans believe in the literal Adam and Eve creationist fairy tale, while another 32% believe that mankind's evolution was guided by God.

This article is very interesting. The source seems to be reliable. It appears that a multitude of Americans believe in some whacked-out nonsense. Most of us knew this from past polls, but it still wows ya.
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Offline Nick

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Re: 78% of Americans are idiots
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2012, 09:38:32 AM »
Only 78%...I thought it would be higher.
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