Why Does Belief in God Require Mind Control Techniques?

[screwtape]

Really?  You've never witnessed

A dissociative state in which people become extremely suggestible and suspend critical thinking.

I'd like to add this too -

If this is what you originally meant - and I see no reason to believe it is, but what the heck, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt - then your response to me was horribly inadequate, and so unnecessarily cryptic as to be completely misleading.  If you want to participate in conversations where people are not chronically frustrated by you or accuse you of  shifiting goal posts, you should do a more thorough job communicating what you mean.  I say this to be helpful, not to insult you. 

[Mooby]

You see no reason to believe that I was replying to the post immediately above me, who had in turn replied to me,  in conversation fashion, and instead find it more plausible that I made a disjointed reply to the OP?

Ok... I will try to make that more clear in the future.

[screwtape]

You see no reason to believe that I was replying to the post immediately above me, who had in turn replied to me,  in conversation fashion, and instead find it more plausible that I made a disjointed reply to the OP?

Ok... I will try to make that more clear in the future.

I gave you the benefit.

Your reply was ambiguous. You did not specify what you had not seen and tanaats spoke of several possibilities.

I'm trying to give you some advice to help avoid miscommunication and misunderstandings.  Take it or don't. 

[flapdoodle64]

Well, it's interesting that religions focus indoctrination upon:

1. Children

2. Adults who have just been 'love-bombed' or are in immediate post-trauma shock

3. Adults who have been lulled into a mild hypnotic state

In all these cases, the target population has fewer than the optimal number of bullshit detectors in operation. 

Obviously, the Scientologists are much more exploitive than the so-called mainstream religions.  But note that even mainstream religions are download prejudices (like the anti-gay BS) and a general sense of supremacy upon the members. 

[learnin]

Having been a Catholic for many, many years, let me throw my opinion out.   In Catholic doctrine, the bread and wine actually become the real body and blood of Jesus.  In other words, the priest brings God's real presence down on the altar.  Now.  The problem is that no one really senses this presence.  Everyone continues sensing bread and wine and there really is no "presence".

To illustrate this point, watch a three year old child in a Catholic Church.  Do they detect any change?  No.  Parents are, continually, trying to get their children to be attentive to the priest when he "consecrates" the bread and wine and "changes" them into the body and blood.  One would think if the all powerful God was physically in your presence, you would sense some kind of presence. 

Since one does not notice any momentous event, the church has surrounded this happening with all kinds of visual and sensual props in order that the "faithful" might feel something "sacred".  Incense, elaborate priestly vestments, kneeling, chant, bells ringing, all these things are utilized in order for the "faithful" to think something momentous has taken place.   It is, indeed, mind manipulation.  It is intended to make ones mind perceive something that it does not sense.  To illustrate how important these gimmicks are, consider the following.

In the 1960's, Vatican Council II ushered in many changes to Catholic worship.  The Mass was simplified and much of the gimmickry was eliminated.  As a result, many lost their faith;  nuns left by the thousands and so did priests.  The faithful that remained turned to other gimmicks such as emotional hymn singing; holding of hands and lifting hands into the air (it's no coincidence that the charismatic, pentecostal movement entered the Catholic Church after the 60's changes), etc.  As a result, thechurch is in the process of returning to the old rituals and gimmicks.

It happens in all religions to a greater or lesser extent.  Why does a Pentecostal church get the spirit only after the preacher and choir warms them up with emotional song, dance, and shouting sermons?

[tanaats]

You're quite right.  And in the old Mass they spoke Latin.  Not being able to understand it helped people stay in a dissociative ("trance" state) because their cognitive faculties weren't being exercised.  And Latin is easy to say in a sing-song rhythm that has a beauty to it that is also trance-inducing (imagine Gregorian chant in English).  The Latin mass was a perfect "dissociation engine". 

[learnin]

You're quite right.  And in the old Mass they spoke Latin.  Not being able to understand it helped people stay in a dissociative ("trance" state) because their cognitive faculties weren't being exercised.  And Latin is easy to say in a sing-song rhythm that has a beauty to it that is also trance-inducing (imagine Gregorian chant in English).  The Latin mass was a perfect "dissociation engine".

Absolutely.   I should have mentioned Latin before all else.   And  Latin is making a sort of comeback these days...I wonder why?

[stuffin]

Having been a Catholic for many, many years, let me throw my opinion out.   In Catholic doctrine, the bread and wine actually become the real body and blood of Jesus.  In other words, the priest brings God's real presence down on the altar.  Now.  The problem is that no one really senses this presence.  Everyone continues sensing bread and wine and there really is no "presence".

To illustrate this point, watch a three year old child in a Catholic Church.  Do they detect any change?  No.  Parents are, continually, trying to get their children to be attentive to the priest when he "consecrates" the bread and wine and "changes" them into the body and blood.  One would think if the all powerful God was physically in your presence, you would sense some kind of presence. 

Since one does not notice any momentous event, the church has surrounded this happening with all kinds of visual and sensual props in order that the "faithful" might feel something "sacred".  Incense, elaborate priestly vestments, kneeling, chant, bells ringing, all these things are utilized in order for the "faithful" to think something momentous has taken place.   It is, indeed, mind manipulation.  It is intended to make ones mind perceive something that it does not sense.  To illustrate how important these gimmicks are, consider the following.

In the 1960's, Vatican Council II ushered in many changes to Catholic worship.  The Mass was simplified and much of the gimmickry was eliminated.  As a result, many lost their faith;  nuns left by the thousands and so did priests.  The faithful that remained turned to other gimmicks such as emotional hymn singing; holding of hands and lifting hands into the air (it's no coincidence that the charismatic, pentecostal movement entered the Catholic Church after the 60's changes), etc.  As a result, thechurch is in the process of returning to the old rituals and gimmicks.

It happens in all religions to a greater or lesser extent.  Why does a Pentecostal church get the spirit only after the preacher and choir warms them up with emotional song, dance, and shouting sermons?

Excellent post regarding how the setting and the interactions work together during mass to effect the the marks. What I tried to say so ineptly compared to you.

While these practices are occurring you must consider the environment at the time (in a holy place, structure, etc). The safety and comfort people get while in these specifically constructed places allow the mind control techniques to have a greater effect through subtlety, IMO. 

[screwtape]

crud.  I cannot remember where I read it - I think it was here, somewhere - but there was a study done that showed suggestion was more powerful when it was helped a little by reality.  The example used was a typical Benny Hinn kind of revival show where people already expected to experience miracles and music was employed for emotional manipulation.  But they did a subtle, nifty little trick with the lights.  When the ring leader would suggest they see the lights brighten, they actually made the lights brighter.

This was extremely powerful.  It broke down the brain's "defenses" against suggestion and they were much more susceptible to anything he had to say. So when he something like "let the lord fill you and warm you," people would "feel warm". 

This was all replicated in a lab.

I wish I could even formulate the right search terms to find this. 

[tanaats]

That would make a lot of sense.  It would strongly reinforce the victims' developing delusional experiences.