Author Topic: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?  (Read 36622 times)

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Offline Kimberly

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #551 on: July 21, 2012, 09:03:50 AM »
Partially. What about early onset puberty. Did he address that?
Not as far as I know.

Joe can you please address this?

Can you phrase that in the form of a complete question for me? I don't know what you're asking.

I will happily repeat and rephrase this in the form of a direct question. My question is are you also attracted to children who have early onset puberty, specifically as early as 6+?
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline albeto

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #552 on: July 21, 2012, 10:52:45 AM »

I will happily repeat and rephrase this in the form of a direct question. My question is are you also attracted to children who have early onset puberty, specifically as early as 6+?

Joe addressed this in his first post in this thread. 

Offline Kimberly

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #553 on: July 21, 2012, 11:00:40 AM »
A reply # or page # would be helpful. There's 20 pages now so if you know where it's at please advise. If you don't know where it's at then I will just wait to get it from the horse's mouth. Thanks.
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #554 on: July 21, 2012, 11:09:35 AM »
My question is are you also attracted to children who have early onset puberty, specifically as early as 6+?

Development is the key, age is irrelevent. I've never seen a 6 year old that could pass for a sexually developed woman though.
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #555 on: July 21, 2012, 11:13:50 AM »
<cut>

albeto, If this is the post being reference I don't think it specifically addresses my question at all. Even if you think it answers it thoroughly am
I not allowed to ask clarifying questions?


Edit. NM Joe was kind enough to respond to my direct question.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 11:17:16 AM by Kimberly »
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline Kimberly

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #556 on: July 21, 2012, 11:16:06 AM »
My question is are you also attracted to children who have early onset puberty, specifically as early as 6+?

Development is the key, age is irrelevent. I've never seen a 6 year old that could pass for a sexually developed woman though.

TY for responding, I didn't see this before I was quoting the last message I posted. How do you define what the proper development is and what is the youngest you have witnessed this developmental milestone?
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #557 on: July 21, 2012, 11:51:56 AM »
TY for responding, I didn't see this before I was quoting the last message I posted. How do you define what the proper development is and what is the youngest you have witnessed this developmental milestone?
 
I'm not sure you understand how sexual attraction works. It's not like I carry around a tape measure and if she meets a strict set of criteria then I choose to find her attractive. A better question may be to ask how old the youngest girl I've ever been attracted to was. Probably Saaya Irie, at 11 years old, the same girl many men here admitted to being attracted to. You can hardly say she represents the average 11 year old though. I think more commonly I begin to find a girl attractive at around 14.

I'm going to go ahead and save myself an argument later by pointing out that I said begin.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 11:58:48 AM by joebbowers »
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #558 on: July 21, 2012, 12:20:05 PM »
I'm not hung up on the attraction part Joe. I'm hung up on how you determine consent and developed enough for sex (mentally and emotionally not physically.)

Thank you for trying to help get an idea of age. I know it's not important to you but it helps me understand the average mentality of the child with in that age group. So if age of consent was 11 and this girl was in your presences how would you determine if she was both mentally and emotionally ready for sex? How would you go about getting consent?
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #559 on: July 21, 2012, 12:25:33 PM »
I'm hung up on how you determine consent and developed enough for sex (mentally and emotionally not physically.)

How do you?
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Kimberly

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #560 on: July 21, 2012, 12:30:15 PM »
Please don't try to divert the question off of you and on to me. I'm sincerely attempting to communicate with you out of an interest to understand you. I'm giving you the opportunity to educate me with out me using my preconceived ideas against you. If you can't show me the same respect this will be harder than it has to be.

Edit to add: Joe pretend this is a blank slate and I have no idea how one gets consent or how one determines if someone is mentally or emotionally ready for sex.
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #561 on: July 21, 2012, 12:35:59 PM »
I think the question is ridiculous. If you can't answer your own question, how do you expect anyone else to be able to?

So, how do you determine if someone is mentally and emotionally ready for sex?
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Kimberly

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #562 on: July 21, 2012, 12:45:44 PM »
I think the question is ridiculous. If you can't answer your own question, how do you expect anyone else to be able to?

So, how do you determine if someone is mentally and emotionally ready for sex?

I'm not the one whose sexuality is being questioned. I'm not the one who brought up my own sexuality or the one stating that they can think of a time when it's okay to have sex with an 11 year old.

The question is not ridiculous. Your claim has been that you think post pubescent children can give consent and are emotionally and mentally mature enough to have sex with adults. If you can't define how you would find out if the child is capable of giving consent or if they are emotionally and mentally ready for sex with you how can you justify your own position?

So, I repeat, "If age of consent was 11 and this girl was in your presences how would you determine if she was both mentally and emotionally ready for sex? How would you go about getting consent?"
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline HAL

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #563 on: July 21, 2012, 01:08:57 PM »
I think the question is ridiculous. If you can't answer your own question, how do you expect anyone else to be able to?

So, how do you determine if someone is mentally and emotionally ready for sex?

Answering questions with questions is really aggravating for people Joe.

It reminds me of why theists aggravate me.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #564 on: July 21, 2012, 01:20:50 PM »
Answering questions with questions is really aggravating for people Joe.

It reminds me of why theists aggravate me.

Asking unanswerable questions is really aggravating for people HAL.
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Offline Kimberly

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #565 on: July 21, 2012, 01:26:09 PM »
To keep topics in their appropriate threads I will address this quote here.

Gnu responds to Joe about how Joe justifies sex with 11 year olds.

I never justified sex with an 11 year old. I have justified the attraction but specifically stated that it would be impossible to obtain consent, and therefore I wouldn't do it.

Specifically I said:
Quote
If you really want to force an answer out of me, I would say that if and only if, you could determine with 100% certainty that it was completely consensual, and that she understood what she was doing and both the short and long term ramifications of her actions, I think it should be legal. If there is no coercion, manipulation, threat, deception, malice, or abuse, how can it be called rape?

Clearly in this case she is physically ready, the problem is determining her mental fitness. Is an 11 year old capable of that kind of understanding? Perhaps some are, but certainly most aren't. How could you determine which ones are? I don't know. Some specially designed psychological tests, I would imagine. Of course, that's awkward foreplay and it's not reasonable to set age of consent laws on a case-by-case basis.

Gnu seems to believe that's a rubber stamp approval for child sex.

Quote
Perhaps we should discuss anything further about the above in that topic. TY.

Meh, it's  the same discussion. Not sure why they were even split.

You did say that you can think of scenarios where it would be acceptable to have sex with an 11 year old. So let's get back to that.

"If age of consent was 11 and this girl was in your presences how would you determine if she was both mentally and emotionally ready for sex? How would you go about getting consent?"

If you can't answer that than how can you say:

Quote
I would agree that a 31 year old should not "groom an 11-year-old into a sexual relationship" but I think there are situations where it just happens unintentionally, and it is not always harmful. Teachers working with students may form a friendship that develops into something more, and find themselves in a sexual relationship that neither one intended.

There have been many cases where the 'victim' did not want to press charges, and when the 'abuser' was released from jail many years later, they resumed their relationship.

How did you determine that the adults in this situation were capable of determining the child was emotionally/mentally ready for sex and capable of giving consent?
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #566 on: July 21, 2012, 01:30:14 PM »
Quote
You did say that you can think of scenarios where it would be acceptable to have sex with an 11 year old. So let's get back to that.

Did I say acceptable? Or did I say it should be legal? Don't put words in my mouth. Many things that I find morally reprehensible are legal and should remain legal. I outlined a hypothetical situation under which I wouldn't consider it abusive, and therefore wouldn't consider any legal punishment to be appropriate.

Quote
How did you determine that the adults in this situation were capable of determining the child was emotionally/mentally ready for sex and capable of giving consent?
I never said they made that determination or were capable of determining it.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 01:38:35 PM by joebbowers »
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Kimberly

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #567 on: July 21, 2012, 01:41:20 PM »
I never said they made that determination or were even capable of determining it.

But you clearly don't object to those examples? Why not? How did you base your opinion of those examples as acceptable and not morally wrong? If you can't define whether or not the child was mentally/emotionally ready and able to give concept how to do personally determine when a pedophile is in a healthy relationship and when they are taking advantage of a child?

You can keep dodging this moral quandary all day long but we are going to keep coming back to this question. I've modified it for clarity:

If age of consent was 11 a post pubescent girl was in yours or another pedophiles presences how would you determine if she was both mentally and emotionally ready for sex? How would you go about getting consent, or what would be an acceptable approach by another pedophile?
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #568 on: July 21, 2012, 01:46:14 PM »
It's an unanswerable question, but feel free to continue asking and I will feel free to continue not answering.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Kimberly

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #569 on: July 21, 2012, 01:55:47 PM »
It's an unanswerable question, but feel free to continue asking and I will feel free to continue not answering.

It's not unanswerable Joe. It's a question that should be answered. If you don't know when a child is mentally and emotionally ready for sex than you can't argue that they ever are. You can't argue that there is ever an acceptable time to have sex with an 11 year old. You can't argue that a post pubescent child is capable of giving consent if you can't determine when they are mentally developed enough to thoroughly understand the ramifications of such consent.

Do you not see where this problem leads to if you can't answer this question? It leads you being unable to determine when any child is able to give consent and when they are emotionally and mentally ready to have sex with an adult. If you can't distinguish between a sexually mature child and a victim, then you seriously need to reconsider your position entirely.
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline HAL

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #570 on: July 21, 2012, 03:31:44 PM »
Asking unanswerable questions is really aggravating for people HAL.

Then tell her it's your opinion it's an unanswerable question to begin with.

Now, that wasn't so hard was it?

Offline Kimberly

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #571 on: July 21, 2012, 04:09:48 PM »
I don't understand how you can hold a position that 11 year olds can at times consent to sex and be emotional/mentally ready for sex with an adult and not be able to tell us how to distinguish these sexually mature children from others.
Thank you for considering my point of view; however wrong it may be to you.

Offline HAL

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #572 on: July 21, 2012, 07:48:28 PM »
OK I have a question now.

If we go way back in time, back to ancient Rome or Egypt, or farther back, as far as you want to go, was this a problem at all? Did what we consider pedophilia cause any societal problems? Was it acceptable, and if so what problems did it cause? Is there any data on ancient societies regarding this?

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #573 on: July 21, 2012, 07:55:16 PM »
If we go way back in time, back to ancient Rome or Egypt, or farther back, as far as you want to go, was this a problem at all? Did what we consider pedophilia cause any societal problems? Was it acceptable, and if so what problems did it cause? Is there any data on ancient societies regarding this?

Interesting question.  My knowledge of history and sociology isn't strong, but I do remember learning a bit about ancient Greek society in this regard.  During the time of Socrates and Aristotle, right around there, people were generally regarded as "sexual beings" starting around the age of twelve or so, I think it was, and age gaps between any two partners weren't given any consideration.  It was usual for someone twelve or thirteen years old to be sexually active with people in their thirties, forties, and probably even older than that.  I'm not aware of what kind of effect this had on their society per se, but obviously that period of time in ancient Greece produced a lot of advancements and breakthroughs in a variety of scientific fields and also produced a good deal of literature that is still highly regarded today.

Interesting aside, by the way... in that society, too, people were just sexual, and gender was largely considered irrelevant.  Basically, everyone was bisexual to the point where it was generally just taken for granted, and those who preferred only one sex (whether it was their own or the opposite one) were regarded as being a bit "odd", although they weren't generally condemned or held in contempt.
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #574 on: July 21, 2012, 08:13:19 PM »
Kimberly, how can you determine when someone is mentally and emotionally ready for sex? You're sexually active right? How do you know when a potential partner is ready?

Do you have some sort of test or measurement that you perform?

Or do you abdicate your moral authority and simply believe that, ready or not, once they reach the legal age of consent you no longer have any responsibility to ensure readiness?
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Offline Quesi

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #575 on: July 21, 2012, 08:26:18 PM »
OK I have a question now.

If we go way back in time, back to ancient Rome or Egypt, or farther back, as far as you want to go, was this a problem at all? Did what we consider pedophilia cause any societal problems? Was it acceptable, and if so what problems did it cause? Is there any data on ancient societies regarding this?

Interesting question.  Most history is written by the winners, and therefore the stories of abuse victims get lost.  I think that we can all agree that circumstantial sexual abuse of children probably existed in all societies in which there were slaves,  and it is generally understood that victors in battle get to take the women and girls as property.

In Greece, there is much written about pederasty, but most of the modern literature seems to present it as a great opportunity for the kids.  Kind of an apprenticeship. 

But the bachi bazi come to mind as an institutionalized child sex practice that is believed to go back to ancient times, preceding the existence of Islam, and surviving well into the 21st century.  Wikipedia says: 

The practice of bacha bazi is one form of pederasty which has been prevalent in Central-East Asia since ancient times, when it was observed by the ancient Greeks.[9] Historically more common, especially in northern areas of Afghanistan and the Pashtun areas of Afghanistan and Pakistan, than at present, it waned in the big cities after World War I, forced out for reasons that dance historian Anthony Shay describes as "Victorian era prudery and severe disapproval of colonial powers such as the Russians, British, and French, and the post-colonial elites who had absorbed those Western colonial values."[10]

A number of western travellers through Central Asia have reported on the phenomenon of the bacchá. Visiting Turkestan in 1872-3, Eugene Schuyler observed that, "here boys and youths specially trained take the place of the dancing-girls of other countries. The moral tone of the society of Central Asia is scarcely improved by the change". His opinion was that the dances "were by no means indecent, though they were often very lascivious." At this date there were already signs of official disapproval of the practice. Wrote Schuyler:

"These batchas, or dancing-boys, are a recognised institution throughout the whole of the settled portions of Central Asia, though they are most in vogue in Bokhara and the neighbouring Samarkand. In the khanate of Khokand public dances have for some years been forbidden - the formerly licentious Khan having of late put on a semblance of morality and severity.... In Tashkent batchas flourished until 1872, when a severe epidemic of cholera influenced the Mullahs to declare that dancing was against the precepts of the Koran, and at the request of the leaders of the native population, the Russian authorities forbade public dances during that summer."
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi

Offline lotanddaughters

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #576 on: July 21, 2012, 08:46:43 PM »
I've had more threesomes than I can remember. I would never let her have sex with another guy, but my girlfriend is a little bi-curious as I think many girls are (much more so than men), so we occasionally like to find another girl to bring home to play with us.


Y'all need to ease up on this guy. It's a wonderful atmosphere to raise a child in. Just let 'em sign the adoption papers and be done with it. :blank:

Offline joebbowers

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #577 on: July 21, 2012, 09:06:17 PM »
Y'all need to ease up on this guy. It's a wonderful atmosphere to raise a child in. Just let 'em sign the adoption papers and be done with it. :blank:

As I've said a couple of times now, the kids live with their grandparents, as is common in China when both parents work. So, don't pat yourself on the back too hard there with your useless uninformed commentary.

My personal situation aside, you are implying that couples in a more open sexual relationship do not make good parents. Care you back that up with research results or other evidence? Or is your quiver only stocked with snarky comments and jackassery?

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Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #578 on: July 21, 2012, 09:06:47 PM »
Quote
my girlfriend is a little bi-curious as I think many girls are...


I'm curious as to who Joe means by his 'girlfriend'.

What husband refers to his wife as his girlfriend? None that I know of.

Maybe he means his mistress. That's possible.

Care to share, Joe?


Offline lotanddaughters

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #579 on: July 21, 2012, 09:15:42 PM »
Care you back that up with research results or other evidence? Or is your quiver only stocked with snarky comments and jackassery?

Let's just put it this way. I won't be calling you or your whore to babysit anytime soon, you sick, disgusting fuck.
Enough with your bullshit.
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