Author Topic: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?  (Read 26485 times)

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Offline Timo

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #87 on: June 08, 2012, 03:46:19 PM »
I am not a "heterosexual, straight male" but I have an opinion nonetheless.

And what a predictably anti-man rant it was. Just what I was trying to avoid by qualifying my intended audience.

How was that an anti-man rant?
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Offline Quesi

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #88 on: June 08, 2012, 06:46:38 PM »
I am not a "heterosexual, straight male" but I have an opinion nonetheless.

And what a predictably anti-man rant it was. Just what I was trying to avoid by qualifying my intended audience.

I am a heterosexual, straight male and I do not find Quesi's post to be the least bit misandrous.

Thank you Bad Pear.  My post was certainly not written with misandrous intent. 

Timo, I think you will find what joebowers considers to be my “anti-man” rant in response #72. 

Joe had “qualified” his “audience” and stated in no uncertain terms that he was eliciting responses from “heterosexual straight males.”

When I replied, I violated the boundaries that he had set.  He made it very clear that he was not interested in the opinions of women.  Or gay men, for that matter.   He subsequently smited me and labeled me a “man hater.”  I have no intentions of even addressing that claim.  I think my posting history on this forum speaks for itself.  Just as joebowers posting history speaks for itself. 

But I would like to take a moment to address the op and subsequent posts on the topic of pedophilia. 

Pedophilia is about a power imbalance.  It is about a sexuality that resides in the realm of the adult/child relationship, in which the child has no option but to submit to the authority of the adult.  It is about an adult wanting a level of sexual control that he (and sometimes she) cannot obtain with an adult peer.  Pedophiles often exploit their real or perceived authority as respected uncles, priests, teachers, coaches, casting agents, or just simply as adults, who children who have been taught to trust and obey.

Pedophilia is a recognized psychiatric disorder.  Wikipedia says “Several researchers have reported correlations between pedophilia and certain psychological characteristics, such as low self-esteem[53][54] and poor social skills.[55] Cohen et al. (2002), studying child sex offenders, states that pedophiles have impaired interpersonal functioning and elevated passive-aggressiveness, as well as impaired self-concept. Regarding disinhibitory traits, pedophiles demonstrate elevated psychopathy and propensity for cognitive distortions. According to the authors, pathologic personality traits in pedophiles lend support to a hypothesis that such pathology is related to both motivation for and failure to inhibit pedophilic behavior.[56]”  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

Although it is important to note that not all victims of childhood sexual abuse become pedophiles, there is significant evidence that a disproportionate number of pedophiles were themselves victimized as children.  As so often happens, the abused becomes the abuser. 


Offline Graybeard

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #89 on: June 08, 2012, 07:25:20 PM »
ive never used caps bc i simply dont want to waste time capping words so i can post faster
Unless you are using a mobile/cell phone to post, there is no difference in speed because you use one hand for the caps and the other for the letter... ; )

But to your question: Should we execute paedophiles?

At one time smallpox, the plague, TB, etc., were incurable and spread quickly, killing and disfiguring millions. Had our solution been to kill those who showed symptoms, those diseases could have been halted, but never quite eradicated and there would not really have been much incentive to find a cure.

If we kill the abnormal, why look for a cure?

Next point: Someone who suffers from schizophrenia imagines that another person is a monster. The schizophrenic kills that person because he believes that he is about to be eaten by a monster. Should we execute him? Or was the judicial decision in M'NaghtenWiki correct and, if you are insane, you are not responsible for your crimes?

Next point: Why not just lock up the offender for a long time? I hear your experiences and an genuinely disturbed that such a thing should happen to someone. Has the perpetrator been convicted?

Next point: What happens if a child accuses an adult of assault, the adult is executed and then the child says, "I'm sorry, I made it all up."?
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #90 on: June 08, 2012, 09:25:16 PM »
Well, it's your life.

But you complained about to the Chinese customs treating you as a paedophile over your pornography, and now you're happily announcing to the world (including the Chinese authorities, who are already aware of you) that in fact you are a paedophile.

That doesn't seem very clever to me...

Uh, no. I said it was US border control who seized my equipment. It was the DHS that told everyone I was a pedophile. I was returning from China.

I didn't have time to fully answer your "Why are you doing this?" question last night, my wife was dragging me to bed. Now that I have a minute I should explain.

First, I'm not ashamed of something I had no choice in and can't change. That would be just a stupid waste of time.
Second, I haven't admitted to any illegal activity.
Third, regarding my career, nobody does background checks before hiring a photographer, and I doubt my clients (foreign editions of men's fashion magazines mostly) read this website and even if they did, I doubt they would care. The fashion industry is kind of built around guys who like young girls. And guys who like young guys for that matter.
Finally, the same reason that I use my real name and real photo on an atheism forum: hiding behind the veil of anonymity on the internet only serves to marginalize us. Nobody takes anyone in a mask seriously.
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #91 on: June 08, 2012, 09:51:48 PM »
He subsequently smited me and labeled me a “man hater.”

You are using quotation marks, but who are you quoting? You've attributed that to me, but I never said you were a "man hater". Please don't put words in my mouth. I said your comments were anti-man, that does not mean I believe you hate men. If you are going to quote me, do it accurately, or do it without quotation marks so people know you're using your words and not mine.

I never said I didn't value the opinion of women, but I was specifically asking the heterosexual males if they found the woman in the photo attractive. If I had uploaded the photo in another thread and told you it was my daughter at the pool you would probably have said it was cute, but knowing the context of this thread you attacked it. Your rant intimidated the men and tainted the results of my impromptu survey. Who could admit to finding the girl sexually attractive with your guilt trip hanging over their heads?

Pedophilia is about a power imbalance.

For me it certainly isn't, this is an over-generalization. I like strong, intelligent, independent girls. I don't find weakness attractive and I don't take pleasure in forcing anyone to do anything.
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Offline Timo

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #92 on: June 08, 2012, 10:54:00 PM »
Your rant intimidated the men and tainted the results of my impromptu survey. Who could admit to finding the girl sexually attractive with your guilt trip hanging over their heads?

So to clarify, if a woman offers up an opinion that might make a man feel guilty in some way, she is being "anti-man"?  I really don't understand your point.

What was it that she said that was against men?

For me it certainly isn't, this is an over-generalization. I like strong, intelligent, independent girls. I don't find weakness attractive and I don't take pleasure in forcing anyone to do anything.

I think we've already established that, technically speaking, you're not a pedophile.  You're not primarily attracted to prepubescent children.  As such, any medical research that relates to pedophiles is not research that pertains to you.  You're right that society at large doesn't often understand that distinction, just as they don't often understand the distinction between sexual orientation and sexual behavior.   But to bring that confusion into a discussion of medical research is unhelpful.
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #93 on: June 08, 2012, 11:00:23 PM »
This is not a discussion of medical research. Perhaps the OP should clarify his definition of "peadohpiles", but regardless, I'm using the definition most commonly accepted by society, not one I had to look up and copy from a technical resource.
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Offline Timo

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #94 on: June 08, 2012, 11:05:29 PM »
What are you talking about?  Quesi's post just cited a wikipedia post, which itself cited medical research.  Did you read what it was you were responding to?
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #95 on: June 08, 2012, 11:16:17 PM »
So to clarify, if a woman offers up an opinion that might make a man feel guilty in some way, she is being "anti-man"?  I really don't understand your point.

This is not clarification, it is obfuscation. You are intentionally twisting my words. You know full well that I didn't say "if a woman offers up an opinion that might make a man feel guilty in some way, she is being 'anti-man'".

Her comments could be extended to almost any photo of an attractive woman in a sexy pose or sexy outfit. She is saying that this type of photo objectifies women and that it was intended to demean and dehumanize the model. Knowing full well that men are the target audience of this type of photo, she is implying that any man who likes the photo is a misogynist and does not respect women.

Frankly it's a very tame photo and she is exploiting the context of the conversation to put a guilt trip on men. If she came across the same photo in a post about our family trip to Disneyland, do you honestly think it would have provoked the same diatribe?

And this is precisely when I directed the question of the woman's sexual attractiveness to straight men, as I knew someone would try to derail the topic and taint the results.
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #96 on: June 08, 2012, 11:19:28 PM »
What are you talking about?  Quesi's post just cited a wikipedia post, which itself cited medical research.  Did you read what it was you were responding to?

Quesi is not the OP. Judging by the lack of correct spelling and grammar displayed by the OP, I'm going to assume we are using the laymen's definition of pedophile, not that of the mental health community.
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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #97 on: June 08, 2012, 11:29:41 PM »
The photo was not strictly "anti-man".  It was, however, "anti-any-man-who-finds-this-photo-attractive".

That's not you, is it Timo?
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Offline Timo

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #98 on: June 08, 2012, 11:48:41 PM »
Her comments could be extended to almost any photo of an attractive woman in a sexy pose or sexy outfit. She is saying that this type of photo objectifies women and that it was intended to demean and dehumanize the model. Knowing full well that men are the target audience of this type of photo, she is implying that any man who likes the photo is a misogynist and does not respect women.

A couple of things.

1.) Claiming that a given photograph objectifies women and is therefore misogynist isn't "anti-man" per se, unless you want to also claim that all men objectify women and are therefore misogynists.  Or something.  And I'm not even sure that it's always misogynistic to objectify a woman.  But maybe I'm a bad feminist.  I don't know.
2.) Quesi never claimed that the photo was misogynistic outright.  To be sure, there's a judgmental tone in her post that I can't completely co-sign.  (Age of consent questions aside, I'm not here to judge anyone that likes sexually submissive women or the sexually submissive women that like to be dominated.)  Though, in this case, I did find the photo to be a little off-putting for some of the reasons she articulated.  So, to go back to this question:

If she came across the same photo in a post about our family trip to Disneyland, do you honestly think it would have provoked the same diatribe?

Maybe.  Maybe not.  I don't know.  Like I said, I found the photo a little off-putting..  That said, I'm not sure that would even pop into my head were it not for you posting this photo in this context.  I'm not sure what the problem with this is supposed to be.

Quesi is not the OP. Judging by the lack of correct spelling and grammar displayed by the OP, I'm going to assume we are using the laymen's definition of pedophile, not that of the mental health community.

If you're responding to the OP, then why are you quoting Quesi?  Am I weird for assuming that you are responding to the person that you're quoting?

The photo was not strictly "anti-man".  It was, however, "anti-any-man-who-finds-this-photo-attractive".

That's not you, is it Timo?

Nah, but I'd rather not get too deep into why exactly that is, or the ins and outs of my sexual preferences.  The long and short of it is that I didn't find that girl sexually attractive and probably wouldn't have even if she were a few years older.  So yeah...
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Offline Bad Pear

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #99 on: June 08, 2012, 11:55:08 PM »
So Joe, do you tie the definition of pedophilia to the age of consent in a particular country? If the cut-off is not puberty, then what is it? At what age (of your object) do you stop considering yourself a pedophile?
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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #100 on: June 09, 2012, 02:44:45 AM »
Nah, but I'd rather not get too deep into why exactly that is, or the ins and outs of my sexual preferences.  The long and short of it is that I didn't find that girl sexually attractive and probably wouldn't have even if she were a few years older.  So yeah...

Apologies for bringing it up; whether or not you, yourself, are attracted to that image is beside the point anyway.  The troublesome part of Quesi's post is this (emphasis mine):

Quote from: Quesi
I think it is a photo that would appeal to the kind of man who wants control over a submissive woman, (or girl, and that is very telling in itself) and has no interest in knowing anything about who she is and what she thinks and what she longs for

Quesi is suggesting that those of us who experience a sexual attraction to such an image likely fit the description she gave.  Very teling about whom?  Well, about the audience who's attracted, of course.

As a man who experienced involuntary sexual arousal upon viewing that image, I take Quesi's post to mean that I am a dominating, shallow partner who doesn't give a rat's ass about how his partner feels.

This all may not have been Quesi's intent.  But that's how it came across, and I don't think I'm totally out to lunch for having read it that way.
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #101 on: June 09, 2012, 03:36:31 AM »
As a man who experienced involuntary sexual arousal upon viewing that image, I take Quesi's post to mean that I am a dominating, shallow partner who doesn't give a rat's ass about how his partner feels.

This all may not have been Quesi's intent.  But that's how it came across, and I don't think I'm totally out to lunch for having read it that way.

Considering that's exactly what she wrote, as plain as day, in her own words, I'm a little dissapointed at those who are choosing to interpret it otherwise.

I was trying to use the photo to demonstrate that most heterosexual men would be labeled as pedophiles, but after her rant, people will look at the photo through the filter of her negative assessment of it. Basically what she's done is poisoned the well.

It would be like if she showed up to a child's birthday party just as the kids were about to hit the piñata and launched into a tirade about how the piñata was made by some child laborers in a Mexican sweatshop and how the candy inside it will rot their teeth and lead to a lifetime of obesity and diabetes.

How are the kids supposed to enjoy the piñata after that? The truth is she doesn't know anything about the piñata, where it was made, or what kind of candy was inside it. She's just made some wild guesses and accusations and ruined the party.
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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #102 on: June 09, 2012, 03:51:14 AM »
So Joe, do you tie the definition of pedophilia to the age of consent in a particular country? If the cut-off is not puberty, then what is it? At what age (of your object) do you stop considering yourself a pedophile?

I think an attraction to girls who have reached puberty and begun to develop secondary sex characteristics (breasts, pubic hair, etc.) is normal and healthy. However, society in general would still label these men pedophiles, throw them in jail, ruin their lives, take away their careers and families, and make them register as a sex offender simply for VIEWING sexual depictions of these pubescent young girls, even drawings or stories, even when there is no real victim.

There is simply no sense is throwing out the medical definition when it's the societal definition that is putting people behind bars.
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Offline Aerial

Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #103 on: June 09, 2012, 06:27:11 AM »
Ok so viewing these girls is one thing.^ Should these men who enjoy viewing, say, a 17 yr old with buxom features, should these men be aware that girls that age are still children at heart? (many of them are)....does that matter?

Offline Quesi

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #104 on: June 09, 2012, 06:44:30 AM »
First of all, I cannot verbalize how offended I am by a discussion of female sexuality (on a mixed gender forum), in which women are informed by a forum member, that we are prohibited from participating.  And that is probably why I responded as harshly as I did.  I usually use more diplomatic language.

And joe, I understand that you are angry that I did not submit to your demand that I (and other people of my gender, and gay men, and perhaps bisexual men) refrain from commenting on your photo. 

And I also understand that you are insulted that I did not give you the positive feedback about your work that you were clearly soliciting.  Perhaps I should have held my tongue, as I have done on other occasions in which you presented photos of women in submissive, contorted poses on this forum.  But I am afraid that I really do not like you photos of women, and this time I just didn’t hold back.

I must say that you do have an excellent eye for lighting, and clearly strong technical skills.  But I find your photos to be caricatures of women that are meant to capture women’s sexuality, but which, in my subjective opinion, miss the mark.  When I look at this photo, it feels contrived and false.  I cannot imagine any woman who, in a sexy moment, would want to be the young woman in that picture.    And on a certain level, I suspect that you know that.  Which is, I suspect, why you choose to specifically exclude women’s feedback on the photo.

You wrote “Her comments could be extended to almost any photo of an attractive woman in a sexy pose or sexy outfit.”  No.  Trust me.  I’m sure most women, at various times in our lives, have looked at photos of sexy women, and wanted to “be” that sexy woman.  The whole fashion industry is based on the premise that women study photos of sexy women and extract and adapt components of what they consider to be sexy in the photo and incorporate them into their lives. 

**************************************************

In spite of the fact that I have recently been smited for offering “unsolicited” feedback on this thread, I would like to offer some somewhat off-topic, unsolicited female words of wisdom to the heterosexual men (especially the young men) who are not getting laid as much as you would like. 

You have been conditioned to misread women’s sexual cues.  Remember that woman on the barstool a while back?  It seemed to be going really well.  And then you said something “really hot” and she parted her lips and lowered her face just a little and looked up at you?  Maybe she tilted her head a little bit.  Her facial expression and pose was not unlike that of the woman in this photo.  You see, she wasn’t submitting to your awesome manliness.  She was recoiling.  But you didn’t catch it.  You reached over to her or said something even “hotter” and the next thing you know, she was off to the bathroom and then clustered with her girlfriends and avoiding you the rest of the evening.  You’re confused and disappointed and pissed. 

It isn’t really all your fault.  Your whole life you have been bombarded by images of “sexy” women, usually really young women, with a specific set of facial expressions and body language that represent male misconceptions of female sexuality. 

**************************************************

When I have more time to focus, I’ll come back and write a little more about my understanding of pedophilia and innate power imbalances. 

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #105 on: June 09, 2012, 07:26:41 AM »
Ok so viewing these girls is one thing.^ Should these men who enjoy viewing, say, a 17 yr old with buxom features, should these men be aware that girls that age are still children at heart? (many of them are)....does that matter?

Yes, they should, and absolutely, it does matter.
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Offline Aerial

Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #106 on: June 09, 2012, 07:40:36 AM »
Ok ^Thank you because I think that is the point with some of this. People have sexual reactions sure. They also have responsibility to act with maturity if they are mature.

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #107 on: June 09, 2012, 08:07:28 AM »
...prohibited from participating...
...submit to your demand...

Aah, always the flare for the dramatic. Hyperbole, exaggeration, stretching the truth. You were not prohibited, nor did I make any demands. I asked a question that wasn't directed at you, and politely pointed out that the question was directed at a specific group of people to avoid someone tainting the results and derailing the thread, which you've done.

It would be like standing by while a food vendor was conducting a taste test for a new product specifically engineered to appeal to men and louding proclaiming to everyone in line "it tastes like shit." While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and they would have no right to demand your silence[1], I think you could see how they would be upset. While it may indeed taste like shit to you, others may have liked it, but the results of the survey are now invalid because of your outburst.
 1. As nobody did, despite your claim.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2012, 08:34:04 AM by joebbowers »
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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #108 on: June 09, 2012, 08:33:31 AM »
By that logic you shouldn't have asked anyone to post their opinions, but rather send them by PM, or vote in an anonymous poll.
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Offline Quesi

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #109 on: June 09, 2012, 08:34:18 AM »


I think an attraction to girls who have reached puberty and begun to develop secondary sex characteristics (breasts, pubic hair, etc.) is normal and healthy.

I would like to point out that parents of young girls are painfully aware of the fact that puberty (in the US) is setting in younger and younger.  There is concern (perhaps valid, perhaps not) that chemicals in soaps and shampoos and lotions, and perhaps even hormones in milk are contributing factors.  But many attentive moms of little girls read ingredients carefully and perhaps overspend on "organic" products in hopes of protecting our little ones from the prospects of a childhood cut short.

This is an article which  addresses the realities and some of the current theories.   http://articles.latimes.com/2008/jan/21/health/he-puberty21 

And here is a pediatric advice piece assuring the mom of a 9 year old that it is perfectly normal for her child to undergoing the changes associated with puberty.  http://pediatrics.about.com/cs/conditions/a/early_puberty.htm

8 and 9 year olds are most certainly not ready to negotiate the world of adult sexual interactions, in spite of the fact that they might have budding breasts and a little public hair and perhaps even menstruation.  Nor are 13 year olds.  Or 15 year olds.  While experimentation with peers might be disconcerting to parents, I don't think it is necessarily unhealthy if the participants share trust and are able control the actions, set limits, and have ultimate control over their own bodies.  Obviously, strong sexual education is important.  But just because a 15 year old kid has had sex ed (and thinks she knows much more about sex than any generation preceeding her) and has been menstruating for more than a third of her life, that does not mean that she has the social or emotional tools to have a healthy sexual interaction with a 35 year old man. 

And I maintain that the 35 year old man who seeks out the 15 year old girl is doing so because he knows that he has emotional control over her that he probably could never have with a peer. 

Offline joebbowers

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #110 on: June 09, 2012, 08:50:21 AM »
I think it would be much less harmful for a teenage girl to experiment with an older man than with her teenage male peers.

Teenage boys are going to lie, cheat, and steal their way into the girls' panties, rush her into sex before she's ready, have sex without a condom, get the girl pregnant and be unable to care for the baby, that is if they even stick around long enough to see it born.

A 30-something man is much more responsible and grounded. He is emotionally secure enough that he doesn't need to lie his way into her bed. He is patient, willing to take it slow. He is much more likely to use a condom or other form of contraception. He isn't going to leave her right after sex, because he wants a relationship. If he does get her pregnant he is in a better position to be a father, both emotionally and financially.

These are broad generalizations, but I would certainly say the average 30-something man is more stable, patient, caring, and mature than the average 15 year old boy.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline joebbowers

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #111 on: June 09, 2012, 08:51:26 AM »
EDIT: Secret BM.

Every time you type BM I read it as 'bowel movement' and giggle. This made me laugh out loud.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Aerial

Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #112 on: June 09, 2012, 09:00:51 AM »
Oh dear jb...you say a 30 something will treat a 15 yr old better than another 15yr old? Thing is that in our society 15yr olds are supposed to learn from each other...not elders.
I see your point, I really do, I had a best friend who thought the same way. But he was gay and thought it about 15yr old boys. Better to be treated gently by an older wiser dude. well the sentiment might be nice, but it is not really considering the teenager. Even though you might think it is.

Offline Aerial

Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #113 on: June 09, 2012, 09:07:06 AM »
Another thing I want to say on this topic. My son is friends with a convicted sex offender. My son is 20, his friend is 24 and was found with underage porn on his computer. My son has told me of his friend's desires...not for children but for just underage...like 14 15.
Now this boy...I consider 24 to be a boy...is getting no help whatsoever. My son tells me how this boy self harms to get into hospital, they let him out the next day. No follow up.
I am appalled that society just ignores these people. My son has more care for this boy than any health services...it is wrong wrong wrong.
kill these people? Ok such a quick fix. I understand that pedophiles severely hurt people. I also understand that if they got help a bit younger...they might be able to overcome their issues.

Offline joebbowers

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #114 on: June 09, 2012, 10:11:48 AM »
kill these people? Ok such a quick fix.

How is this a quick fix? It's not like if you rounded up and killed all the pedophiles that there would never be any more in the future. That's not how it works. Just as there have always and will always be gays, there have always and will always be pedophiles.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline joebbowers

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Re: should peadohpiles be allowed to live ?
« Reply #115 on: June 09, 2012, 10:16:18 AM »
Oh dear jb...you say a 30 something will treat a 15 yr old better than another 15yr old? Thing is that in our society 15yr olds are supposed to learn from each other...not elders.
I see your point, I really do, I had a best friend who thought the same way. But he was gay and thought it about 15yr old boys. Better to be treated gently by an older wiser dude. well the sentiment might be nice, but it is not really considering the teenager. Even though you might think it is.

I posted a detailed explanation of why I believed it, and you simply state that I'm wrong without demonstrating why.
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT