Author Topic: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]  (Read 3862 times)

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Offline pianodwarf

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A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« on: May 22, 2012, 04:28:50 PM »
Hi, please just allow me to apologize for infringing on your time. I just want to be brieft with you. The reason that this message is sent to you is to introduce you to someone who loves you so much up to the point that He gave His own life for you on the Cross at Calvary, so that you can have the privilege to be with Him forever. That person is Jesus Christ who has been eager to become your eternal Savior, if you just allow Him to do so. He is the only one who can save you from your sins and the coming judgment, if you are willing to accept His gift of salvation. Scripture tells us clearly in Hebrews 9:27 - that man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment. The truth is you can live without Jesus, but you can't die without Him.

If you've never had the chance to meet him, to know him or to allow him to become your Lord and Savior, you can do so right now by praying that simple prayer. A decision that you will never regret, all you have to do is to allow the Spirit of God to speak to your heart right now at this moment. I strongly believe that the Spirit of God is now speaking to your heart right now about the importance of that incomparable gift.

"Dear God, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from You. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward You. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that Your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send Your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen."

Thanks for your patience, just give Jesus a chance, He can change as well as doing marvelous things in your life. You can email me back if you have any questions, may God bless you.

____________________________________________________________

Accepting Jesus As Lord

What does it mean to accept Jesus as your personal Savior?
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Online One Above All

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2012, 04:46:25 PM »
Slavery (blind obedience to a more powerful entity under the threat of death and without reward[1]) isn't a gift, you know.
 1. In heaven you kiss YHWH's ass for the rest of eternity; in hell you are tortured for eternity. You can't win.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline Omen

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2012, 04:53:58 PM »
"Dear God, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from You. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward You. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that Your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send Your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen."

I just said this out loud.

Nothing happened.
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2012, 05:07:10 PM »
"Dear God, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from You. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward You. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that Your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send Your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen."

I just said this out loud.

Nothing happened.

Not sure whether the letter writer will be joining us, but I'll post this just in case.

Letter writer, I make you a counter-proposal.  I will recite your prayer, and if Jesus responds in any way, even if it's just a strong emotional reaction, I will convert to your religion, as you say.  However, if I recite your prayer and nothing happens, you, conversely, must speak against the Holy Spirit and become an atheist.  If you want me to put my entire worldview on the line, it's only fair that you do the same.

I await your response.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline rev45

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2012, 05:11:02 PM »
^Will there be a time requirement?  I just said the prayer out loud and all I felt was my daughter pulling on my foot.
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Offline oogabooga

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2012, 05:14:47 PM »
So there is someone who loves me so much that I need to beg forgiveness for simply not worshiping the ground he supposedly walks on? Really? I'm surrounded by people who love me and would really, truly die for me, and not one of them demands or even expects any kind of worship. And none of them threatens me with eternal pain and suffering for miniscule transgressions. They just laugh them off and forget all about them. That's love. What your preferred deity expects and demands of you is slavery - you do all the work and he gets all the glory, and let's not forget the fact that he can torture you for effin' eternity if he feels like it. That's not love. Not even close. To be honest, I find it rather sad that there are people who still equate abuse with affection.

I'm also joining pianodwarf's proposal - I have already recited the prayer twice and I'll keep it up for a few more times. In the morning I'll report on the development.
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Offline Timtheskeptic

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2012, 05:19:32 PM »
Quote
Hi, please just allow me to apologize for infringing on your time.

Actually I choose to give this a bit of my time.

Quote
I just want to be brieft with you. The reason that this message is sent to you is to introduce you to someone who loves you so much up to the point that He gave His own life for you on the Cross at Calvary, so that you can have the privilege to be with Him forever.

Oh, let me guess; Harry Potter?

Quote
That person is Jesus Christ

Oh.

Quote
who has been eager to become your eternal Savior, if you just allow Him to do so. He is the only one who can save you from your sins and the coming judgment, if you are willing to accept His gift of salvation. Scripture tells us clearly in Hebrews 9:27 - that man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment. The truth is you can live without Jesus, but you can't die without Him.

So what you’re saying is that you believe that the teachings you were raised with were accurate but not the other religions? There have been several different stories quite similar to your Jesus.

Quote
If you've never had the chance to meet him, to know him or to allow him to become your Lord and Savior, you can do so right now by praying that simple prayer. A decision that you will never regret, all you have to do is to allow the Spirit of God to speak to your heart right now at this moment. I strongly believe that the Spirit of God is now speaking to your heart right now about the importance of that incomparable gift.

"Dear God, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from You. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward You. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that Your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send Your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen."

Thanks for your patience, just give Jesus a chance, He can change as well as doing marvelous things in your life. You can email me back if you have any questions, may God bless you.

So I should say those prayers, asking for forgiveness for being human? The things that were considered “sinful” in the bible do not make any sense. If you can be wiling, would you come down here and discuss things with us?

The thing is, the bible contains many things that are considered “sinful” when they’re irrelevant and are not all harmful. I do not wish to apologize for being human. I will not seek forgiveness for my disbelief, and I’m not going to just believe that a book is true because someone says so.
Me:What are you looking at Eminem?
Brother: Nothing, Harry Potter.

I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.

Offline Jesusonlysaves

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2012, 05:25:58 PM »
Thanks for posting, I am the one who sent the message. I'll get back to you in a while because I am going to a rehearsal.
"John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Offline Seppuku

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2012, 05:37:43 PM »
Consider this. We've got a man and we'll call him The Emperor. He owns all the land you live on and he provides all the wealth in the land and he is the big man in charge. Without him, none of this land would be ours for he has provided it for us. This emperor creates a series of laws your must obey and many of these laws infringe on your own civil liberties and might be things you would normally disagree with. But you must obey them. He also requires that you worship him and praise him, you must do his bidding. But he will reward you for doing so. You can have the good life you wish to live, he will allow you to have that.

On the other hand, if you disobey, you must suck up to him, you must apologise to him so that you may be saved from his negative judgement. But what if you continue to disobey and decided to ignore his laws and refuse to worship him? He will kidnap you and torture you, he will waterboard you, he will cut off your fingers one by one, he will slowly and very painfully destroy your male parts, he will attach you to a machine just to electrocute you, he will torture you using the rack, he will whip you over and over and over, he stick parts of your body into fire so that you may feel your flesh burning and this is only the surface of the tortures you will face.

This man tells you that he loves you and tells you that he's granted you free will, yet your only choices are to suck up, obey his laws and be rewarded or act freely and suffer. Regardless of what you may want in life what you do boil down to are those 2 choices. Anybody who cares about their wellbeing? The choice is an obvious one.

He then decides to sacrifice his only son just so he could present himself to us and to be among his people and so that he has the ability to forgive them for their wrong doing. If they do it again, let them repent. If they do not? Yep, more torture. All those that stand against him, he rages violence towards, he even committed mass genocide once.

This is exactly what the God of the bible is like. This is what Christians like yourself preach to us, but it comes with the "woo" of the bible, all this supernatural stuff. Take out the woo and this is God's character. Once you add the woo, it's actually a lot worse because no tyrant can offer an eternity of pain and suffering no matter how hard they try. We in the West celebrate it when tyrants like Bin Laden, Colonel Gadaffi, Saddam Hussein, Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler and many others are taken down and their people liberated. But each of them are weak compared to God.

But you want to give us a gift. The gift of having this God approve of me, to reward me so that I do not suffer. I think if such God exists He is not worthy of the worship He receives. After all that has been done in his name and all who have been sent to an eternity of pain and suffering, all the times he's been idle when even the most devout of his followers have prayed for his mercy and after all he did in the bible. I'm sorry, but this is like going up to a Gaddafi resistance fighter and saying, "I come baring you a gift, if you kiss his ass in the right way, he'll have mercy on you"...well not quite because I'd say Bible God is worse than Gaddafi. I think the greatest gift would be a weapon to slay this God. I don't want to become a mindless follower, I want the freedom to think for myself, to enjoy my life and be a good and moral person, it's not in me to suck up (though HAL has very beautiful eyes), but if this God is really real, I am not free to do that, because it'd come down to 2 choices: be rewarded or suffer for all eternity. Frankly, there's not a person in the world that wants the second option. Thus freedom becomes and illusion.

Principally I would choose hell over heaven, but strike enough fear into a man and he'll most likely give up his principles.

I guess thankfully, he isn't real.
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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2012, 06:19:36 PM »
So let me get this straight. Your god entrapped Adam and Eve 6,000 years ago (he knew they would sin, because he's omnipotent, so he did it on purpose), so that his kid could get zapped 2,000 years ago to save us, then chose to depend on those old stories to get his point across rather than continuing with direct involvement, because he loves me.

He knows I am not susceptible to believing old stories, but he won't do anything new to help me accept the truth of his existence. Because he loves me.

Well, his definition of love is so different from mine that it doesn't apply. You need to find another word.

Tell you what. I'll be the control group. I won't repeat your little prayer while the others who have already agreed to help you with your little request. If i suddenly find myself debating pianodwarf, Rev45 and others who suddenly saw the light, then I'll give your plea a little consideration.

Oh, and welcome, Jesusonlysaves.

Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2012, 06:40:39 PM »
Hello Jesusonlysaves,

Welcome to the forum. Many ex-Christians post on this forum (myself included), but you’ll also discover that even those who weren’t born into Christianity are very familiar with the Gospels. So there isn’t a need to discuss the methods of how to accept Christ, nor what becoming followers of Christ will do for us. We understand this already. However, you will find an abundant amount of eagerness to address the following topics regarding Jesus:

• Was Jesus the son of God or just a man?
• Is there evidence of Jesus’ resurrection?
• Are there biblical contradictions involving Jesus?
• Are the Gospels credible eye witness accounts?
• Is prayer to Jesus useless?
• Is Jesus’ love a perfect love or is it a death threat?

These are examples of topics the members here would be delighted to debate. To put it plainly: we aren’t here to be preached to; we are here for an honest discussion. So if you have come for the latter, then I look forward to exchanging thoughts with you.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline meconopsilo

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2012, 07:06:06 PM »
im good guy. im not too fond of the idea of god and such.
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Offline meconopsilo

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2012, 07:07:22 PM »
parkingplaces makes most excellent point. like a ritalin frenzied natzi.
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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2012, 07:09:00 PM »
seppuku anshatsu ??
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Online Aaron123

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2012, 12:04:15 AM »
Hi, please just allow me to apologize for infringing on your time. I just want to be brieft with you. The reason that this message is sent to you is to introduce you to someone who loves you so much up to the point that He gave His own life for you on the Cross at Calvary, so that you can have the privilege to be with Him forever. That person is Jesus Christ who has been eager to become your eternal Savior, if you just allow Him to do so. He is the only one who can save you from your sins and the coming judgment, if you are willing to accept His gift of salvation. Scripture tells us clearly in Hebrews 9:27 - that man is destined to die once, and after that to face judgment. The truth is you can live without Jesus, but you can't die without Him.

If you've never had the chance to meet him, to know him or to allow him to become your Lord and Savior, you can do so right now by praying that simple prayer. A decision that you will never regret, all you have to do is to allow the Spirit of God to speak to your heart right now at this moment. I strongly believe that the Spirit of God is now speaking to your heart right now about the importance of that incomparable gift.

"Dear God, I know that I have broken your laws and my sins have separated me from You. I am truly sorry, and now I want to turn away from my past sinful life toward You. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe that Your son, Jesus Christ died for my sins, was resurrected from the dead, is alive, and hears my prayer. I invite Jesus to become the Lord of my life, to rule and reign in my heart from this day forward. Please send Your Holy Spirit to help me obey You, and to do Your will for the rest of my life. In Jesus' name I pray, Amen."

Thanks for your patience, just give Jesus a chance, He can change as well as doing marvelous things in your life. You can email me back if you have any questions, may God bless you.

____________________________________________________________

Accepting Jesus As Lord

What does it mean to accept Jesus as your personal Savior?

You seem to think that none of us were ever christians, or tried our hands at religion.  The opposite is true.  Many of us were once christians and have said prayers similar to the one you've suggusted.  Right now, I have no idea how you're going to react to the rest of the comments, so I'll just say that you shouldn't assume that we don't know anything about christianity...
Being a Christian, I've made my decision. That decision offers no compromise; therefore, I'm closed to anything else.

Offline Jesusonlysaves

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2012, 07:56:55 AM »
Well, I've read some of your responses about my message. To be honest with you they are all based on unbelief. First, I am not going to spend time arguing with anyone of us, since it always leads to nowhere. Jesus Christ does not send any of His believers to go out there and argue with people. All He said that in this verse is "He said to them, “Mark 16:15-16 - Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

As far as God existence is concerned you have no excuse according to this verse  "Romans 1:19-20 - Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

The message of the gospel is based that on the fact that we are all sinners, since there is no other way we could have lived up to His standard. He send Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins. By His death on the cross we have the opportunity to reconcile with God, to inherit eternal life and to become a child of God.  Romans 3:23-24 - For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,  and all are justifiedfreely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Receiving that incomparable gift is all based on accepting the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross on our behalf by grace trough faith. Hebrews 11:6 - And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. All you have to do is to acknowledge that you are a sinner and open your heart and let Jesus who is the Eternal savior, the King of kings, the Lord of lords, The Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end to come into your life.

What I'd like to tell is that unbelief has never had any impact upon the truth. My friends, you are dealing with "Absolute Truth", and "Eternal Truth. Although, you may choose not to believe in it, but it does not change the fact that one day you will have to stand in front of God and give Him and account about how they lived their lives while here on this earth.

The message of the Gospel is black and white, it's all or nothing. You can either choose to accept Jesus as your savior which means accepting life or reject it which means rejecting life.

My friends, God is love and you'll never understand His love as long you keep one living in sin, disobedience, rebellion and unbelief. John 3:16 -  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Romans 5:8 - But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 1 John 4:8 - Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

One thing people often fail to realize the same Jesus that they don't want to have anything to do with is the one that one day they'll call upon to save them, but it will be too late. I think we all can agree with the fact that one day, we are all going to die. The choice that we make today is what going to determine where we will spend our eternity.
"John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

Offline Omen

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2012, 07:59:43 AM »
Well, I've read some of your responses about my message. To be honest with you they are all based on unbelief. First, I am not going to spend time arguing with anyone of us, since it always leads to nowhere. Jesus Christ does not send any of His believers to go out there and argue with people. All He said that in this verse is "He said to them, “Mark 16:15-16 - Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

So if someone doesn't believe you at face value and you can't be bothered to explain, you can and will dismiss them out of hand?

Is that the love of Jesus?
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 08:04:08 AM by Omen »
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2012, 08:10:21 AM »
Well, I've read some of your responses about my message.

For engaging us, I give you credit.  Most believers lack either the courage and/or the stamina.

Quote
To be honest with you they are all based on unbelief.

Well, yes, it's an atheist forum.  Lack of belief is kind of the norm.

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First, I am not going to spend time arguing with anyone of us, since it always leads to nowhere.

Members at WWGHA are expected to back up claims that they make.  If you don't, you can expect moderator intervention.

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As far as God existence is concerned you have no excuse according to this verse  "Romans 1:19-20 - Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

If the existence of Yahweh is so crashingly obvious, then why are there so many nonbelievers in the world?

Quote
The message of the gospel is based that on the fact that we are all sinners, since there is no other way we could have lived up to His standard. He send Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins. By His death on the cross we have the opportunity to reconcile with God, to inherit eternal life and to become a child of God.  Romans 3:23-24 - For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,  and all are justifiedfreely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Yes, we already know all of that.  Now, if you can come up with some proof...

Quote
Receiving that incomparable gift is all based on accepting the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross on our behalf by grace trough faith. Hebrews 11:6 - And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. All you have to do is to acknowledge that you are a sinner and open your heart and let Jesus who is the Eternal savior, the King of kings, the Lord of lords, The Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end to come into your life.

Ditto.  (And by the way, this is called "preaching", and like making claims without backing them up, it's not permitted here.)

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What I'd like to tell is that unbelief has never had any impact upon the truth.

Indeed it has not -- nor has belief, for that matter.  Man used to belief that the earth was flat.  That did not make it flat.  Now we know the earth is round -- that does not make it round, either.  Its actual shape is irrelevant to what we think its shape is.

Quote
My friends, you are dealing with "Absolute Truth", and "Eternal Truth. Although, you may choose not to believe in it, but it does not change the fact that one day you will have to stand in front of God and give Him and account about how they lived their lives while here on this earth.

There is no such thing as "choosing to believe something".  The human mind does not work that way.

Quote
The message of the Gospel is black and white, it's all or nothing. You can either choose to accept Jesus as your savior which means accepting life or reject it which means rejecting life.

I reject it, and I am not dead.

Quote
My friends, God is love

Have you read the bible?  There's not a lot of loving going on in there, friend.

Quote
and you'll never understand His love as long you keep one living in sin, disobedience, rebellion and unbelief.

Yahweh's message is, "Obey me and worship me or I will set you on fire for all eternity".  Please explain how this is indicative of love.

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John 3:16 -  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Romans 5:8 - But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 1 John 4:8 - Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.

Quoting scripture at us has probably about the same effect as quoting Hindu scripture would have on you.  You might want to keep that in mind.

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One thing people often fail to realize the same Jesus that they don't want to have anything to do with is the one that one day they'll call upon to save them, but it will be too late. I think we all can agree with the fact that one day, we are all going to die. The choice that we make today is what going to determine where we will spend our eternity.

And we finish, as we so often do, with Pascal's Wager.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2012, 08:24:26 AM »
As far as God existence is concerned you have no excuse according to this verse  "Romans 1:19-20 - Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

That quote is funny.  It contradicts itself:  "God’s invisible qualities...have been clearly seen"  If something is invisible, then it isn't clearly seen.  And if it is clearly seen, it isn't invisible.  So silly.  And as for the "being understood from what has been made", I'm not even sure what that means.  But it sounds like it was spoken by an angry man.

The problem I have with this kind of verse is it tends to make you guys - xians - less empathetic.  It tends to make you shout at people and when they don't listen to you, you shrug your shoulders and say "well, I told 'em."  I'm not saying you shouted at us.  It happens though.

This sort of approach denies that faith can be a difficult thing.  Most of us here were believers.  Speaking for myself, it came to a point where I realized I couldn't and didn't believe anymore.  It was not as if I woke up one morning and said "this god stuff is a bother.  It gets in the way of all my sinning.  I think I'll just believe otherwise."  It was a process full of searching, turmoil and praying.  At the end of it, there was just nothing left. 

And rather than get your sympathy or understanding or support, we get this kind of attack: "What, you don't believe in god?  What's the matter with you?  It's obvious. Are you some kind of dummy?"  Or we get the ever popular, "a fool says in his heart there is no god."  Yeah.  Calling me stupid is really going to get me back on the band wagon.

So I find Romans 1:19-20 to be dismissive and rather uncharitable.  Sort of the opposite of how people describe jesus.  Maybe that's because it was not something jesus said? 

The rest of what you said was mainly just preaching using appeals to emotion and a collection of non sequiturs.  If jesus died for me, then why do I have to do anything?  Not very convincing.  I could go through it line by and and explain why, but I don't really think that would be productive.

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Online Zankuu

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2012, 08:30:07 AM »
Well, I've read some of your responses about my message.

I wonder if my reply was one that you read, because...

To be honest with you they are all based on unbelief. First, I am not going to spend time arguing with anyone of us, since it always leads to nowhere. Jesus Christ does not send any of His believers to go out there and argue with people. All He said that in this verse is "He said to them, “Mark 16:15-16 - Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

...the above indicates you're only here to preach and unwilling to have an open discussion. Jesusonlysaves, emotionally charged preaching won't reach anyone here. What will reach us are concise, logical rebuttals. Are you willing to do this?
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

Offline screwtape

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2012, 08:35:00 AM »
My friends, God is love

One quibble.  Techincally, god is Jealous, not love.
Ex 20:5
Ex 34:14
Deut 4:24
Deut 5:9
Deut 6:15
Jos 24:19
Joel 2:18
Nah 1:2
etc...
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Offline kaziglu bey

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2012, 08:42:30 AM »
In the Old Testament, those who caused God displeasure are killed. Dead. Done. End of story. No talk of eternal punishment, no everlasting condemnation. Then Jesus comes along, and not only do we face death in this life, but the potential for eternal punishment if we don't accept a human sacrifice as "salvation". Therefore, Jesus serves to condemn us, not save us.

Quote from: jesusonlysaves
Hebrews 11:6 - And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

That's nice, but what about:
Acts 13:48 "And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed."

Rom.8:29-30 "For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate.... Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified."

Rom.9:11-22 "For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) .... For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction."

Eph.1:4-5 "He hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will."

2 Th.2:11-12 "God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned."

2 Tim.1:9 "Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began."

Jude 1:4 "For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation."


It doesn't appear as though we have any say in the matter. God determines who is saved or not, according to his own whim, and regardless of the good works, faith, or lack thereof of the person in question. In other words the most benevolent person, who has only ever tried to accomplish good, and did so because of their faith in God, could be chosen by God for punishment, for no reason, with no chance for appeal. This is not love, or justice, or morality. It is a totalitarian dictatorship.

All of this is summarized in the quote that I use in my signature.
Seriously though... What would happen if the Great Green Arkleseizure didn't fram up the rammastam before the hermite curve achieved maximum nurdfurdle velocity? Now THAT would be something. AmIrite?

Offline Seppuku

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2012, 08:47:42 AM »
Jesusonlysaves, how do you feel about my analogy? You say God commands this and God and done this and God expect this of us and we apparently know God is real (but choose not to belief it). Okay, if everything you say is true, then I think my response is relevant.

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As far as God existence is concerned you have no excuse according to this verse  "Romans 1:19-20 - Since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse."

I can safely say, not it's not plain to me.

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Although, you may choose not to believe in it,

My non-belief was not a choice. I once believed, but only because I told he was real and as a child, I believed anything I was told. I later stopped believing because there was nothing that could actually convince that he was in fact real.  I don't think I ever stood up and made the decision, "I won't believe in God, I know he's real, but I'll refuse to believe it", as your bible passage suggests. On this forum we often ask Christian to present us with this proof that God is real. The answers are often similar and the results are always the same.  If Pianodwarf and co. suddenly convert, then it'll be strong evidence to suggest you are correct.

But regardless of what the bible claims, it will not act alone as something to measure the validity of its content, because at no point has anybody ever shown how the bible is correct. Just as nobody's shown us how the Qua'ran or any other religious text is correct.

Instead, we normally get a circular argument. The Bible was Inspired by God -> Therefore the bible must be true -> The Bible says God Exists -> The Bible was inspired by God. However, you're not claiming that at the moment, because you believe we already know God exists...but then that's only because the bible tells you this.

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One thing people often fail to realize the same Jesus that they don't want to have anything to do with is the one that one day they'll call upon to save them, but it will be too late. I think we all can agree with the fact that one day, we are all going to die. The choice that we make today is what going to determine where we will spend our eternity.

We will all one day die. But what happens afterwards? It could be anything, you suggest that the bible has the answer to this, Muslims suggest the Qu'ran has answers, Hindus suggest the Vedas and other texts have the answers, Norse Pagans suggest the Eddas have the answers. What makes the bible right and all of these wrong?
“It is difficult to understand the universe if you only study one planet” - Miyamoto Musashi
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Offline plethora

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2012, 08:55:27 AM »
All you have to do is to acknowledge that you are a sinner ....

You don't know me.... and yet you come here and tell me I am somehow morally corrupt. How pretentious.

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My friends, God is love and you'll never understand His love as long you keep one living in sin, disobedience, rebellion and unbelief.

I'm not your friend. You come here and pass judgement on me without knowing anything about me except that I do not believe your god exists. How dare you?

inappropriate comment removed.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 09:32:32 AM by screwtape »
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Offline Timtheskeptic

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2012, 09:10:45 AM »
Well, I've read some of your responses about my message. To be honest with you they are all based on unbelief. First, I am not going to spend time arguing with anyone of us, since it always leads to nowhere. Jesus Christ does not send any of His believers to go out there and argue with people. Bible verse

The condemned part is precisely what Seppuku meant. I’m sorry, but it seems to me that you’re only attempting to just preach rather than to discuss your belief. This is a forum for discussion, not for preaching. Many theists have come here and started preaching themselves. As we have told you, there is a reason why we disbelieved and we have had believed before.

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As far as God existence is concerned you have no excuse according to this verse.  bible verse

So what you’re saying is that we shouldn’t question the existence of a God, especially your God. I’m sorry, but I don’t buy that. I’m not going to just go, “Oh, I’m just going to accept that some God exist because I was being told not to question them.” Sorry, but that just doesn’t work for me. Why can’t your God prove his existence? How do we know if it’s your God and not the existence of other gods?

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The message of the gospel is based that on the fact that we are all sinners, since there is no other way we could have lived up to His standard. He send Jesus Christ to die on the cross for our sins. By His death on the cross we have the opportunity to reconcile with God, to inherit eternal life and to become a child of God.  Bible verse

Sorry, but preaching is against the rules here. Also, the idea that we’re sinners and that we should be punished is ludicrous because as I’ve said, we’re all human beings doing what we do in life. Your God condemns human behavior. Your God has a problem with harmless stuff. The idea of ‘sin’ was to just make people feel guilty for no good reason and to be controlled. This is like a Stockholm syndrome; you are led to believe that you deserve this and you should accept the abuser’s abusive ways. Sorry, but I will never follow a deity, especially not the one who condemns me for being human, for being a nonbeliever, or even being Bi. I do not believe that we should accept this “You’re a sinner” idea because it is just harmful and nonsensical.

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Receiving that incomparable gift is all based on accepting the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross on our behalf by grace trough faith. More bible verse. All you have to do is to acknowledge that you are a sinner and open your heart and let Jesus who is the Eternal savior, the King of kings, the Lord of lords, The Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end to come into your life.

As I have said, there are many other characters that are similar to Jesus’ story. I’m sorry, but I’m not going to just believe that some guy named Jesus was born of a virgin, performed miracles, died on a cross and rose three days later, especially when there are similar stories like this with other religions.

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What I'd like to tell is that unbelief has never had any impact upon the truth. My friends, you are dealing with "Absolute Truth", and "Eternal Truth. Although, you may choose not to believe in it, but it does not change the fact that one day you will have to stand in front of God and give Him and account about how they lived their lives while here on this earth.

Oh good grief. What absolute truth are we talking about here? Are you trying to tell me that your Bible is true? I’m sorry, but I don’t buy that. If your God wants to save me, he would have to prove that he exists. But of course, even if he does exist, I would still not worship him because he is a horrible deity.

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The message of the Gospel is black and white, it's all or nothing. You can either choose to accept Jesus as your savior which means accepting life or reject it which means rejecting life.

Ah, the Pascal’s wager. Sorry, but I don’t buy that. What if you were told you have to believe in Odin? What about all the Hindu gods or the Egyptian gods?

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My friends, God is love

No, he isn’t. Love does not involve torturing people for all eternity for not worshiping him. Your God does not love, especially from what I read in the bible. Your bible is what made me want to avoid your God.

 
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and you'll never understand His love as long you keep one living in sin, disobedience, rebellion and unbelief.

Sadly, you do not understand; I do not believe that your God or any gods exist because there is not evidence. All this “sin” and “Rebellion” is ridiculous. I’m not “rebelling” because I do not see any evidence for the existence of your God. But as I said, even if he does, your God is mean and vicious and completely unworthy of being worshiped. I will not hang around with bullies. I don’t know why you would.


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another bible verse

Sorry, but preaching isn’t allowed.

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One thing people often fail to realize the same Jesus that they don't want to have anything to do with is the one that one day they'll call upon to save them, but it will be too late. I think we all can agree with the fact that one day, we are all going to die. The choice that we make today is what going to determine where we will spend our eternity.

Again with the Pascal’s wager. I’m sorry, but this is precisely why I never want to be a theist again; you (to theists in general) spread fearful messages, you tried to guilt-trip us, you tried to just preach.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 09:20:22 AM by Timtheskeptic »
Me:What are you looking at Eminem?
Brother: Nothing, Harry Potter.

I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.

Offline sun_king

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2012, 09:18:04 AM »
In case Jesusonlysaves doesn't know what Pascal's Wager is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager

« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 09:20:59 AM by sun_king »

Offline jaimehlers

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2012, 09:19:30 AM »
The problem with your statements here is that they are dependent on already having the belief that you hold, as you indicated.  That isn't how reality works.  I can believe that the sun rises in the west all I want, but it won't actually make the sun rise in the west.  So, believing in your deity of choice isn't going to make any bit of difference in your life unless you can show that said deity actually exists and has an effect on things.  And you can't do that with mere emotional appeals, because they don't actually prove anything.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2012, 09:27:46 AM »
Hi, please just allow me apologize infringing your time. I just want be brief with you. Reason that message sent  you is introduce you someone who loves you so much up to point He gave His own life for you at Volcano, so you have privilege to be with Him forever in Happy Good Place. Person is King Agga who been eager become your eternal Savior, if you just allow Him do so. He is only one who can save you from your sins and the coming Eruption, if you willing accept His gift of salvation. Acient Scrolls tell us clearly in Gallen 9:27 - islander is destined die once, and after face judgment. Truth is you can live without King Agga, but you can't die without Him.

If you never had chance to meet him, to know him or to allow him to become your Lord and Savior, you can do  right now by chanting that simple chant. Decision you will never regret, all you have do is allow Spirit of Ugabuga  speak your heart right now at moment. I strongly believe that the Spirit of Ugabuga is now speaking your heart right now about importance of incomparable gift.

"Dear Ugabuga, I know I have broken your laws and my sins separated me from You. I truly sorry, and now I want turn away from my past sinful life toward You. Please forgive me, and help me avoid sinning again. I believe  Your son, King Agga died for my sins, was resurrected from dead, is alive, and hears my chant. I invite King Agga become the Lord my life, rule and reign in my heart from day forward. Please send Your Holy Anima to help me obey You, and do Your will for the rest my life. In King Agga's name I chant."

Thanks for your patience, just give King Agga chance, He can change well doing marvelous things in your life.


Please show me how to seperate this statement from yours.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 09:37:27 AM by Hatter23 »
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

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Re: A Gift That Will Change Your Entire Life Forever [#2648]
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2012, 09:35:13 AM »
Lots of responses here to Jesusonlysave's second post. Lets give him a chance to respond.

And Jesusonlysave's, it would behoove you to read what our members have said and respond to our disagreements with your posts. Merely preaching to us guarantees that you will make no progress. We've all had our shots.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2012, 09:53:55 AM by ParkingPlaces »
Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.