Christian Pastor Advocates Concentration Camps For Gays

[Timtheskeptic]

here's my list of what i'm about to say on this subject.

1 ) being gay, bisexual, or straight has nothing to do with procreation
2 ) To have a child can be by procreation between a man and a woman, by artificial insemination, or by surrogacy.
3 ) There are gays, straights, and bisexuals who can't have children, ergo they are infertile (I'm infertile)
4 ) There are people who do not want children, ergo they're child-free (i'm also child-free)
5 ) What they homophobes are saying is that we're meant to be just popping out babies regardless
6 ) They're not really concerned about the population, they're concerned about two men who love each other.
7 ) They have no idea what they're talking about because they have never put any thought about the infertility or people who choose not to have kids.
8 ) Even if they had thought about it, they rather ignore that and demonize LGBT people because they find them to be "icky."
9 ) The idea of "putting them on an island" is stupid because you can put straight men on an island and they still will die out because they can't procreate either. It's never about procreation.
10 ) straight folks have children who are LGBT themselves and there are LGBT parents who have children through surrogacy, adoption, artifical insemination, or fostering a child.

[Seppuku]

Figured as it seems Stephen Fry is a homosexual people love (on account of him being awesome), he actually had something to say on this video:

"Deliciously insane homophobe pastor: Hey, relax, fruitcake: we don’t make queers & lesbians our straight parents do.

And people keep telling me I should like religion well frankly when the people who promote it say things like "Put Gays And Lesbians In Electrified Pen To Kill Them Off" YOU'VE GOT NO CHANCE !!! "

[Ambassador Pony]

[Traveler]

Wow. Just wow. Could they possibly have found a less articulate supporter of this Worley creep? She's obviously clueless, and not thinking for herself. Scary.

[Quesi]

Well that was really painful to watch.  Ummmm...... Do we think that she knows that Anderson Cooper is gay?  And as much as I like the guy and respect his privacy and his attempts at being objective on the subject, might that not have been an interesting time to sort of be out on TV?

[nogodsforme]

All gay men are flamboyant trannies like the guys in "Priscilla, Queen of the Desert". Or they are effeminant. Or they are child molesters. The awesomely handsome silver fox was not lisping, wearing women's clothing or false eyelashes. And he does not have twenty underage boys tied up in his sex dungeon. 

So, no, she had no idea that he is gay. 

[Quesi]

This interview as very difficult to watch the first time, but I admit that I have watched it over and over again the past few days.

I can’t help but believe that this interview will become, decades from now, one of the iconic moments of this era.  Gay news anchor interviews church lady about whether or not homosexuals should be put behind electrified fences and left to die. 

I don’t know anyone like this woman.  I really don’t.  But I know that she represents many, perhaps millions of people in this country today.

Since I’ve gotten obsessive over this, I decided to transcribe the interview.  And here it is:

Lengthy intro, and then - 

AC:   Do you agree with his, his statement that he said on the pulpit, that gays and lesbians should be put behind electrified fences until they die out?

SP:   Umm, I believe that that was say again that yes he said that.  But of course, he would never want that to be done.  Ummm, of course people are going to take it and make it their own way and make it into what they want to, but I agree with what the sermon was and what it was about. 

AC:   But you are saying he doesn’t want it done, but he said he wanted it done on the, he said it from the pulpit.  How do you, why do you interpret that is not what he wants?

SP:   I ah, let’s see. OK. Let me try to say it a different way.  Maybe ah, maybe that is what he felt like should be done.  I mean it could be said either way ok?  Just to make the short of it, yes, I agree with him.  If they can’t get the message that that’s wrong, then um, you know, ah, they can’t reproduce, and eventually, they would die. 

AC:   So you believe only that gay people are only born of other gay people?

SP:   (Pause.  Closes eyes.  Blinks)  Ah, I’m sorry.  What? (Shakes her head)

AC:   You’re saying that they can’t reproduce, so therefore they would all die off. 

SP   Aaaah, I …If man to man…

AC   Gay people get born to straight parents all the time, no?

SP   No.  That’s not what I meant.  If man to man were in the same fence, (rolls eyes upward) and women were in the same fence, they can’t reproduce together.  That’s what I mean. 

AC   Right, but that wouldn’t eliminate all gay people.  There would be more gay people born outside the fence to straight people, wouldn’t there?

SP   Exactly.  But we were meaning ah the ones in there.  You see, it is all taken out of context and twisted, the main point is (Anderson leans his cheek upon his hand, gazing intently at the screen, clearly anticipating the “main point”) it is always the same. 

AC   So what is it about gay people that are, are worse than adulterers who Leviticus points out, and people who curse their mothers and fathers who should be put the death, and promiscuous girls who could be put to death in Deuteronomy… What makes gay people worse than those people?

SP   From the bible there is no difference, but that is what he was talking about. 

AC   So you believe people who, you believe that adulterers should be put to death?  Because that is in the bible. 
SP   Like you said, like it was said, ah, you know, just not not really, whatever happened, but yeah, I’m not gonna, you know, keep answering the same questions over and over.  Yes.     

AC   So is it, does it seem Christian to you to talk about putting people behind electrified fences, and watching them die?  Because I’ve talked to a number of pastors in the last couple of days who’ve said they, that just doesn’t sound Christian.  That just doesn’t sound like the message of love that they hear in the bible. 

SP   People keep, once again, harping, harping harping on the electric fence (rolls eyes) this and that.  It is about the HOMOSEXUALS and it is wrong.  That’s what it is about. 

AC   But you would understand why some people would be, would feel that this, this is wrong to say.  I mean, you say people are harping on it.  Do you understand why some people would be concerned?  I mean, if some people were talking about putting Jews behind electrified fences, I imagine that would be of concern to you. 

SP   Well, again, um, it’s not (sigh) it’s not, here we go again, you know.  Nobody’s going to put them behind, ah, an electric fence. 

AC   Well actually that has happened. 

SP   That’s the point.

AC   It is called the holocaust.  You said nobody’s going to kill homosexuals.  Homosexuals are killed all around the world.  It is happening right now In Iraq… and right now in Iran.

SP   Yeah, well, this is 2012.

AC   Right.  It is happening right now, in 2012, in Iraq and Iran.

SP   And the main thing is yes.  And you know.  And you know what?  This is a pastor that speaks the word of god.  Anybody can take it anyway they want to, and if they don’t like it, they don’t have to.  They can turn around and go on.

AC   Thank you for being on the program. 

SP   Yeah.  Sure.  Thank you so much. 

[Timtheskeptic]

Thank you Quesi for that lovely transcript, it makes it easier for me not to do my head in by hearing that woman's uneducated mouth ramble unintelligently. 

It's sad that they talk about the procreation and what the bible says, it just shows they have no clue what they were talking about, just as that woman shows; clueless and brainwashed.

"Oh but it's wrong and they can't procreate!"

As i've looked deep into the debate between LGBT rights activists and the opposition, there is no sense from the opposition. Procreation is really unimportant. Hardly anyone keeps a check up on a married couple.

"So are you going to have any kids? Please proceed to strip and get in bed. We want you to make babies."

What's next? Have a go at single folks like myself?

"Y U No with WOmun? U Oughta make baybays!"

That woman in the video just deserves to be ridiculed. No body should ever care about procreation. Also, the electric fence idea is an epic failure before the idea could even start; no one's going to let you take people who are LGBT (In the country or overseas), there will always be gay children within heterosexual households, LGBT people might either pretend they're not gay or fight, and like Hitler; your ass will be handed to you after we're done with ya.

[flapdoodle64]

My thanks to Quesi as well for transcribing this.

But I don't blame or ridicule the woman in the interview.  She's not the brightest, to be sure, but she's a classic product of a culture where a document like the Bible is held up to be the magically inspired and transcribed book of eternal true wisdom.  Growing up in a place like the USA, where there is mass worship of the Bible, you are going to instinctively learn Orwellian double-think so well you are never even conscious of it. 

I put the blame on the liberal Xians and Xian intellectuals.  They're the ones who make these esoteric and Byzantine rationalizations for why some passages in the Bible are somehow magically valid and yet others are magically non-valid.  The liberals and the intellectuals cherry-pick for tolerance, the way the fundies cherry-pick for hate. 

Until these people have the 'nads to say that the Bible is made-up book written by humans, containing both good content and bad, a book composed by human minds but not magic, they are supporting the intellectual infrastructure that allows humans to download divinely-inspired hate.

[Gracie]

I put the blame on the liberal Xians and Xian intellectuals.  They're the ones who make these esoteric and Byzantine rationalizations for why some passages in the Bible are somehow magically valid and yet others are magically non-valid.  The liberals and the intellectuals cherry-pick for tolerance, the way the fundies cherry-pick for hate. 

Until these people have the 'nads to say that the Bible is made-up book written by humans, containing both good content and bad, a book composed by human minds but not magic, they are supporting the intellectual infrastructure that allows humans to download divinely-inspired hate.

It's a convincing argument and I've heard Sam Harris and others adamantly state the same.

We had a very liberal church in Raleigh, NC that organized anti-war rallies allowing activists to come and speak out against the insane policies during the Bush administration.  I never attended church services but met several agnostics who liked the social aspect and safe haven it provided, unlike any church found in that part of the country. They also had a gay, female Pastor which is unheard of in the Bible Belt.  This place served a purpose for those of us concerned about social justice, war, women's rights, etc., without the religious dogma.

Having said all of that,  I do have a hard time with the cherry picking of scripture, as well. 

[Azdgari]

Gracie, how do you think your church members would feel about ordering bibles edited and printed with those verses removed?

[Quesi]

I'm glad that everyone enjoyed my transcript.  I must admit that I got a rather perverse pleasure out of writing the absurd words.

Gracie, I enjoy your comments.  Hope we see more of you. 

Flapdoodle, I am going to respectfully disagree with your assessment that liberal and intellectual Christians are to blame for the indoctrination of this pathetic woman and those like her.

The vast majority of humanity are theists.  Most monotheists.  And Christians make up the largest percentage of them, representing about a third of humanity.  Here in the US, Christians are the indisputable majority.    And their belief systems run the gamete.

I cannot condemn a third of humanity and the majority of US residents for this woman's ignorance, fears and biases.  All theists pick and chose what part of the scriptures they chose to follow, based on their life experiences, ideologies, understanding of the world around them, and their personal value systems.

Intellectuals and liberals are theists for lots of reasons.  Family tradition.  They like the rites of passage and holidays and festivals, and they feel a nostalgic affection for the symbols.  Life after death is huge.  They get to imagine their dead loved ones existing in comfort, and imagine those loved ones waiting for to be reunited with them upon their own deaths.  I'd like to imagine my dead loved ones waiting for me.  Religion also builds and maintains communities, in which families support each other through hard times, and celebrate their successes together. 

I'm probably a minority on this forum in that I don't begrudge theists their beliefs.  As long as those beliefs don't impact on my life.  I consider MANY theists (Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and most recently Buddhists) to be my allies in my work on human rights issues, and I feel a greater affinity to them than I do to the Ayn Rand style atheists.   

So who do I blame for this woman's ignorance.  Her parents, to start with.  And I probably blame their ignorance on their parents' ignorance, and the legacy of hatred that has been passed down from generation to generation.  I blame whatever school system spit her out.  But most of all, I blame her pastor and her church and the community that has incorporated hatred as an integral part of their mythology. 

[Gracie]

Gracie, how do you think your church members would feel about ordering bibles edited and printed with those verses removed?

Azdgari, I didn't know any of the members, only activists.  Generically speaking, we both know the church's hierarchy wouldn't approve. 

Gracie, I enjoy your comments.  Hope we see more of you.

Thanks, Quesi.  I enjoy your posts, as well and thank you for the welcome a while back.

I read the transcripts you posted but couldn't bear to watch that woman defend the crazy Pastor.  Thanks for taking the time to share that information.

I consider MANY theists (Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, and most recently Buddhists) to be my allies in my work on human rights issues, and I feel a greater affinity to them than I do to the Ayn Rand style atheists.

There was a wonderful Presbyterian Minister in my hometown who was responsible for opening the local Planned Parenthood many years ago.  We were very close until the day he died.  Unfortunately, many of the folks I encounter are religious extremists today.

[flapdoodle64]

Flapdoodle, I am going to respectfully disagree with your assessment that liberal and intellectual Christians are to blame for the indoctrination of this pathetic woman and those like her.

The vast majority of humanity are theists.  Most monotheists.  And Christians make up the largest percentage of them, representing about a third of humanity.  Here in the US, Christians are the indisputable majority.    And their belief systems run the gamete.

I cannot condemn a third of humanity and the majority of US residents for this woman's ignorance, fears and biases.  All theists pick and chose what part of the scriptures they chose to follow, based on their life experiences, ideologies, understanding of the world around them, and their personal value systems.

 I blame her pastor and her church and the community that has incorporated hatred as an integral part of their mythology.

I don't condemn moderate/intellectual Xians per se.

But the cruel fact is that they provide cover for the knuckle-draggers.  Intellectuals and moderates give a fig leaf of legitimacy to the absurd and insane notion that Yahew dictated the Bible, that the Bible by magic means has more legitimacy than, say, Herman Hesse's 'Siddhartha' or Melville's 'Moby Dick.'

As long as moderates pimp the notion that some parts of the Bible are divinely inspired, thus trumping the writings of human beings such as Malcom X or Ghandi, it remains possible that the homophobic sadist Yahweh is just as real as the Jesus that allegedly uttered the Beatitudes. 

See, the knuckledraggers and the moderates are all good Xians.  They may disagree about some minor points of theology, such as god hating gays, but the main points, such as the world being run by an invisible sky wizard, they agree on.   

It's a central idea in Xianity that morality comes from an invisible sky wizard and that the sky wizard should be obeyed no matter what.  Most denominations follow those ideas.

As long as you hold to that central concept, the idea of individual responsibility is irrelevant. Good is doing what God says.  Period.  Moderates might criticize this woman, but they dare not call 'bullshit' to her central conceit. 

My family and in-laws are all 'moderate' and intellectual Xians and all nice people.  I get along fine with them.  And I think politically, atheists should make common-cause with moderates. 

But all the same, moderates give a veneer of respectability to a barbaric and cruel religion. 

[Quesi]

Thanks for your response, Flapdoodle.

Yeah.  On a lot of levels you are right.  I mean, perfectly nice people who don't generally promote genocide, think it is a nice idea to decorate their toddler's bedroom with a Noah's ark theme. There is a pretty serious disconnect going on there.  Those are your moderates giving a "veneer of respectability to a barbaric and cruel religion."  If they thought about it, they would realize that it is a pretty horrible story to expose a child to.  But they are not thinking about it.  They are thinking about all the cute animals. 
 
Here is my take on morality and the scriptures.  I think it is like looking at a complex piece of abstract art.  You see what you want to see.  You see what you expect to see.  You see something that reminds you of a crisis you are facing.  You see a universal statement about reality.  And sometimes you see something that helps you make that big decision that has been hovering over your life. 

For most people, it is just a tool.  And generous people will find messages of generosity, and industrious people will find messages promoting hard work, and hateful people will find hateful messages.  And lazy people, or people who are not capable of thinking for themselves will defer to authority and believe what they are told to believe. 

[Azdgari]

Gracie, how do you think your church members would feel about ordering bibles edited and printed with those verses removed?

Azdgari, I didn't know any of the members, only activists.  Generically speaking, we both know the church's hierarchy wouldn't approve.

Yes, experience does bear that out, doesn't it?  IMO that's the litmus test for how seriously the moderate/left-wing activists of the church really take their activism.  They can denounce this pastor and his ilk all they like, but they ardently support the spreading of his manifesto:  the Bible.

[screwtape]

And their belief systems run the gamete.

not trying to be pedantic here, just helpful.  I think you mean "gamut".

A gamete^Wiki is a cell that fuses with another during sexual reproduction.

sorry for the interruption

[Quesi]

Well dammit.  And if I remember correctly, you were the one who got such a kick out of my gentiles / genitals error a few months back. 

[screwtape]

Well dammit.  And if I remember correctly, you were the one who got such a kick out of my gentiles / genitals error a few months back.

I was.  I am starting to think you have a one-track mind.

[Quesi]

Well dammit.  And if I remember correctly, you were the one who got such a kick out of my gentiles / genitals error a few months back.

I was.  I am starting to think you have a one-track mind.

What?  You mean all I can think about are words that start with the letter "G"?

Oh wait.  I see what you mean.  That within the electrified fences, in spite of the gamut of gay gentiles contained, their contact with each others genitals will not result in any gametes. 

And that was indeed, the original argument presented by the articulate woman in that video.  I find myself agreeing with her more and more....

[nogodsforme]

Well dammit.  And if I remember correctly, you were the one who got such a kick out of my gentiles / genitals error a few months back.

I was.  I am starting to think you have a one-track mind.

Gentile genitals? There's a joke in there somewhere about Jews and circumcision, but I don't have the willie to erect one, so I'll just nip this in the bud.

[jeremy0]

Quesi:  I would contest that while you find some religious groups strengthening your push for rights, are they doing it out of personal willingness and ideals or religious motivation and inspiration?

What I mean is, if you were to take these different religions away, does that change your cause?  I too have decided to let go on someone on here because while he was a delusional person, he was at least spreading decent morality with it. However, morality is shaped and molded by a common understanding within a group, through individual thought and group discussion. I fail to see why your efforts require religious groups at all, excepting that you happpen to be people that can agree vaguely on some matters and are willing to act on a common understanding.

Personally, whe I feel religion can have its good marks, it's still mental delusion, a system of control and mental instability states; thereby making it a dangerous tool for the wielder, in this case the religious leader. As it can have so many negative attributes, and implies a state of mental concentration on a false sense of reality, I deem all religion a danger to the overall progress and stability of any society.

Also, concerning other areas, why should we, as rationAlists tolerate religions and not speak our opinions and insights when so many religious people pour a lot of time ne money pushing their own religious beliefs on so many other people to gain converts?  I would rather see a British convert from Christianity to agnostics, rather than to Islam, btw...

Sorry for the salad - this was keyed from my phone.

[jeremy0]

What I'm saying is, common religion agrees with like religion.  That alone can be dangerous. We All agree there are radicals to any group. However, I would find a safer world without so many people practicing things that mark mental instability, or lack of thought, logics, and reason.  In fact, I want to promote good thinking, logics, reasoning, creativity, and problem-solving capabilities.  This world is better off with free thinkers than it is mindless drones..

[flapdoodle64]

On one hand, I really don't object to the idea of people going to a church and talking about the Bible and trying to find helpful ideas in the book. 

The Bible as mythology or literature is a pretty interesting subject.  Like all mythology and literature that has stood the test of time, there's some good stuff here and there. 

I think the idea of people meeting and forming communities and supporting each other is also nice.

But Xianity as it exists in 21st century USA almost always propogates certain false ideas which in my opinion are dangerous to the holders of such ideas:

1. The Bible was written/inspired by god (and therefore it is evil criticize, ridiculte, question, or ignore it). 

2. Religion promotes behavior which benefits humanity. 

3. Religious practices give health benefits to the members. 

4. It is bad or cruel to criticize religion. 

5. Even though some religious leaders might behave badly, they are always the exception, rather than the rule.

There's other stuff that religions do, such as meddle in politics, that really torques me off as well. 

But those are 5 ideas that seem to be universally promoted by American Xians and that seem to be at the root of the danger. 

If religious groups did not hold these beliefs, then they would be similar to 'the Society for Creative Anachronisms', which is another group of grownups that like to meet and wear silly outfits, but who don't go around with the delusion that the are following orders from the most powerful and correct invisible sky wizard of the universe. 

[Quesi]

I guess for me it boils down to the fact that the vast majority of human beings are theists, and it is absurd to me to dismiss the contributions that members of the theist majority make to humanity, based on the actions of fringe lunatic theists. 

I certainly agree that religion *can* be dangerous.  Many wars have been fought in the name of religion, and much oppression has been implemented in the name of religion, or religion has been invoked to justify oppression.  However the same can be said of money, or political/economic theories such as capitalism or communism. 

I would argue that for the vast majority of theists, religion is a benign factor in their lives, that has more to do with holidays and a feeling of closeness to family and community, than with their views of social, political or economic justice. 

Christians certainly can't even agree amongst themselves as to "what Jesus would do."  Some Christians believe their god wants them to live a simple life, and to help others and give generously to charities, while other Christan's believe that their god rewards them with material possessions when they live a righteous life.  And I suspect that if that individuals representing those very different subsets of Christianity would, if they were to embrace atheism, continue to live their lives in a very similar way.  I think that those who embraced simplicity would continue to embrace simplicity, and those who chased material wealth would continue to chase material wealth, even without their biblical scriptures to back up their lifestyles. 

[flapdoodle64]

I guess for me it boils down to the fact that the vast majority of human beings are theists, and it is absurd to me to dismiss the contributions that members of the theist majority make to humanity, based on the actions of fringe lunatic theists. 

Well, I don't dismiss their contributions either.  I think Bishop Tutu is awesome and has done great things.  MLK also.  Lots of theists do great things, and I say 'good on ya' to anything they do that is good.   

I'm not saying they are worthless or should be sent to concentration camps. 

What I am saying is, however, that by pimping the Infallable Bible and the Myth of Biblegod, they till and fertilize the soil in which destructive cults grow.  Theist parents work to instill a magic-based belief system in their young....once you believe in magic, you are more easily convinced that Rev. So-and-so is the REAL voice of god, and that all your previous 20 years you've been listening to a fraud. 

Telling kids the Beatitudes were written by god sounds fine, until the kids start reading the bigotry of Leviticus and learning that god hates gays. 

So I give to Bishop Tutu, on behalf of his peddling the destructive myths of Xianity, a stern wag of the finger.  And I want him to think about that, next time there's a Jonestown.  But to Bishop Tutu, on behalf of his work for human rights, I give him a hearty pat on the back as well. 

It is possible to fault as well as praise the same person.

[jeremy0]

It is possible to fault as well as praise the same person.

Indeed it is - and that is what I'm saying.  I'm saying religion is a dangerous tool - while it has it's good marks, it has much nastier negative marks.  Laws will prevent rationalists from doing things legally wrong - so will community drive and social drives.  However, I don't see religion as being the source of any further progress in society, when understanding of science and knowledge that can be gained on the internet is sufficient.

I'm holding the religious groups at fault for hindering social progress - they are basing everything off of 2,000 years ago - we have to move past that mark.  Yes, for a lot of cases, they will do good things.  But in the news, I've seen much more negative marks related to religion than good ones.  In the absence of it, I see community and culture - revolving around intellect, reasoning, and logics.  I want the latter, and religion putting people's attention on things that aren't real is standing in the way. 

So what I'm saying, Quesi, is that while you can applaud these groups, I can scold them...

[Nam]

Holy Shit, Batman this woman is an idiot.

"That's not what he said or meant...but that's what he said and meant; and I agree with him..." etc

She, and those like her are why us southerners are always stereotyped as ignorant boonies. Sad.

-Nam

[Nam]

What Cooper should've mentioned is that homosexuals have been rounded up and put into concentration camps during the holocaust. Jews weren't the only ones who suffered in concentration camps, gays did, as well as did gypsies, the disabled, and other groups of people.

The film Bent is a good film to watch on the subject.

-Nam