Author Topic: "The Woo is Strong in This One"  (Read 1614 times)

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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: "The Woo is Strong in This One"
« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2012, 10:41:59 AM »
My eyes have always glazed over when anyone starts using "necessary" and "contingent" in that context.  Are there no other words to be used to make it understandable to a simple engineer such as myself?

The point is for them not to understand it.

However, there's a danger that they may call Elliot's bluff with a raspberry.

I raise you one Dog Fart, and a God who lives on animal fat.
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Offline EV

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Re: "The Woo is Strong in This One"
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2012, 10:58:23 AM »
My eyes have always glazed over when anyone starts using "necessary" and "contingent" in that context.  Are there no other words to be used to make it understandable to a simple engineer such as myself?

Sorry Screwtape. The easiest definition is this:

Necessary- must be true in all possible ways (like 2+2=4)
Contingent- not necessarily true. (so like things about the world- I have two fingers. I may not.)

My exam tomorrow is on Free Will and Determinism (remember that debate with MM?), and 'God and the World' (which covers both Anselms and Descartes' version of the ontological argument, the logical and existential problem of evil and arguments from Design.) I'm basically trying to get as much of this into my arguments as possible. Judging by the lengths of his posts, I may as well just copy and paste one of my long answer essays as a response to Person 1 and see if they notice...

My eyes have always glazed over when anyone starts using "necessary" and "contingent" in that context.  Are there no other words to be used to make it understandable to a simple engineer such as myself?

The point is for them not to understand it.

However, there's a danger that they may call Elliot's bluff with a raspberry.

I raise you one Dog Fart, and a God who lives on animal fat.

I've been found out. I'm just wasting this person's time now... It's clear neither of us will concede anything, even though it is clear they are delusional ;) I'm hoping they'll waste hours researching the Bible/the arguments I've put on only for me to tell them they don't exist... xD

I'll take that wager Add Homonym! And I'll also make sure throw in a reference to a kangaroo in my next reply to him just for you. Stay tuned.

The poor sod, I am so just using him for revision now. He thinks I am being totally serious...
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"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
- Philosopher John Stuart Mill, from a Parliamentary debate (May 31, 1866);

Offline Traveler

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Re: "The Woo is Strong in This One"
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2012, 11:00:54 AM »
I wonder if he'd watch this video ...

If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline EV

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Re: "The Woo is Strong in This One"
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2012, 01:12:53 PM »
I wonder if he'd watch this video ...

Not seen that one before. That's a really good one. Somehow I postulate that he has such a closed mind that it'll never go through. I'll give it a shot. I'll inbox him.
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"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
- Philosopher John Stuart Mill, from a Parliamentary debate (May 31, 1866);

Offline EV

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Re: "The Woo is Strong in This One"
« Reply #33 on: May 22, 2012, 01:32:33 PM »
Oh wait, more woo of the highest order.

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Empiricism is then nothing more than a circular reasoning. It says that no one can know anything not previously experienced, and, by its definition, rules out the supernatural, even if it does exist. They believe only in the "natural", but never ponder how the "natural" came to be.

The apostles John and Peter had much to say about the empirical evidence you so desire. John said, "That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life--And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. (1Jn 1:1; 4:14). Peter said of Jesus,"Moreover I will endeavor that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance. For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty... We have also a more sure word of prophecy ..."(2Pe 1:15-16,19). Not only did the disciples walk with Jesus and experienced the miracles He performed, Peter also said that these were not just stories they made up, but these things actually happened. Not only that, but Peter said these things were also validated by the prophecies written years before concerning them.

You say the Bible is flawed, but you give no examples of its shortcomings. I asked you to examine the person and claims of Jesus Christ Himself and you ignore my plea and just brush it away. You cannot brush away Jesus. He has done more to influence history than any other person ever to walk the earth. Even the calendar year honors Him. You say God is not existent, and if He does exist, then He is not perfect. Where is your proof of this? As a friend of mine recently quoted from one of his sources:

"If God's authority must be authorized or validated by the authority of human reasoning and assessment, then human thinking is more authoritative than God himself - in which case God would not have final authority, and indeed would no longer be God. The autonomous man who insists that God can only be accepted if His word first gains the approval or agreement of man has determined in advance that God will never be acknowledged as God (the final authority)." - Greg Bahnsen "Van Til's Apologetic


I responded with this:
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Look, I'd love to refute all of your posts in massive detail, but all you are doing is posting Bible verse at me. To accept the Bible as true enough to base moral teaching on is like using the Harry Potter books to say that witchcraft exists because some of the locations are real nowadays. There is a clear parallel between what you say and accepting something like Star Wars as the truth! The only reason people can justify the Bible as something that is not fiction is because it says so in the Bible. That's the main issue with it's credibility.

Quotes such as 'All scripture is God-Breathed' state that the Bible is the ineffable word of God. The issue is that the only source of these teachings is from the books of the Bible. It's like finding a piece of paper with the words:

"You are a fish. This piece of paper can only contain truth'.

written on it. You clearly wouldn't subscribe to that. It's a load of bollocks, you clearly are not a fish.

I'm just saying that the Bible is nowhere near perfect. Half of it is irrelevant, as professed by most Christians, and most of it is irrelevant to me bar the scriptural teaching that is actually relevant in this day and age.

Jesus was influential yes, but that does not prove his divinity. It just proved he was convincing. You say that Empiricism is circular. It is not. It states that we should only accept as true that which can be proven to the highest possible degree of accuracy.

The reason the Bible is flawed is because there are contradictions inherent in the facts in there. If there is any inaccuracy it cannot be the word of God.

I have listed hundreds of these on one of Daniel's previous statuses and will not bother to post them all again. However, here is one where even in context I cannot reconcile. Jesus's father had two different fathers. Just as an example-

MT 1:16 Jacob was Joseph's father.
LK 3:23 Heli was Joseph's father.

This video is a great example of the problem of accepting Jesus. I'd ask you to watch it open-mindedly. If you do so, I will pray open-mindedly for Jesus to come into my heart. That's a pretty fair deal.

http://www.youtube.com/v=4RXmkftK0Sw
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"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
- Philosopher John Stuart Mill, from a Parliamentary debate (May 31, 1866);

Offline screwtape

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Re: "The Woo is Strong in This One"
« Reply #34 on: May 22, 2012, 01:43:30 PM »
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Empiricism is then nothing more than a circular reasoning. It says that no one can know anything not previously experienced, and, by its definition, rules out the supernatural, even if it does exist. They believe only in the "natural", but never ponder how the "natural" came to be.

That's a big mountain of fail to deal with right there.  It is as if he doesn't understand anything.

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"If God's authority must be authorized or validated by the authority of human reasoning and assessment, then human thinking is more authoritative than God himself - in which case God would not have final authority, and indeed would no longer be God. The autonomous man who insists that God can only be accepted if His word first gains the approval or agreement of man has determined in advance that God will never be acknowledged as God (the final authority)." - Greg Bahnsen "Van Til's Apologetic
[/quote]

There too.  I like how they chose words that carefully fit their arguments: "god's authority bust be authorized..."  Authorized?  What does authorization have to do with it?  Who said that?  Nice strawman. 

Oh, and Van Til was an asshole.
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Re: "The Woo is Strong in This One"
« Reply #35 on: May 22, 2012, 02:29:57 PM »
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You say the Bible is flawed, but you give no examples of its shortcomings.

You want flaws? Show him this ... an image created during a study of the MASSIVE number of inconsistencies within the bible ...

http://www.project-reason.org/gallery3/image/105/
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline EV

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Re: "The Woo is Strong in This One"
« Reply #36 on: May 22, 2012, 02:52:22 PM »
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You say the Bible is flawed, but you give no examples of its shortcomings.

You want flaws? Show him this ... an image created during a study of the MASSIVE number of inconsistencies within the bible ...

http://www.project-reason.org/gallery3/image/105/
I recently ordered a copy of that poster :) I'll copy that to him if he replies to me.

I just posted a large amount of contradictions I found on a website to the Forum.
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,22745.msg508028.html
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"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
- Philosopher John Stuart Mill, from a Parliamentary debate (May 31, 1866);

Offline lomolo

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Re: "The Woo is Strong in This One"
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2012, 03:02:41 PM »
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I actually know Him personally. This is what makes Christianity different from all "religions". I talk to God and He speaks to me! Wow! I am sure you really think I am crazy now!

Don't people realize how condescending they sound when they talk like this? :|

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: "The Woo is Strong in This One"
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2012, 10:51:57 PM »
I wonder if he'd watch this video ...



Damn... there's that mosque again, at 0:53 seconds. I saw that in some video, and promptly forgot which one. What's it called?
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Offline changeling

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Re: "The Woo is Strong in This One"
« Reply #39 on: May 24, 2012, 07:34:21 AM »
I wonder if he'd watch this video ...



He certainly won't let his kids watch it if anyone tells him that there
are bare female breasts in the video.
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Offline EV

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Re: "The Woo is Strong in This One"
« Reply #40 on: May 24, 2012, 08:30:29 AM »
 
He certainly won't let his kids watch it if anyone tells him that there are bare female breasts in the video.

LOL. It's not very Christian huh... ;)

I've given up replying to him because he hasn't replied to me. Plus I had my exam so my need for revision monkeys to practise on has diminished somewhat.

Some of you may recall the debate between me and the late MagicMiles, regarding Free Will and Determinism. Weirdly, the topic Free Will and Determinism propagated a question almost identical to the point of our debate- "If Determinism is true, then Free Will cannot exist. Discuss." ... The best question I've ever been asked, thanks to it's vagueness. Usually the questions ask you to analyse in depth one premise of the most obscure argument you can think of... I was really pleased to see that.

Anyway, I'll repost if this guy gets at it again.
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"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
- Philosopher John Stuart Mill, from a Parliamentary debate (May 31, 1866);

Offline Traveler

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Re: "The Woo is Strong in This One"
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2012, 09:19:36 AM »
...He certainly won't let his kids watch it if anyone tells him that there
are bare female breasts in the video.

Huh. I didn't even notice.
If we ever travel thousands of light years to a planet inhabited by intelligent life, let's just make patterns in their crops and leave.

Offline EV

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Re: "The Woo is Strong in This One"
« Reply #42 on: May 25, 2012, 06:28:48 AM »
He watched the video and copped out.

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Elliot: I watched the video. The conclusions the video make are: 1) Most people inherit their religious faith from their parents/culture - it is not an individual choice; 2) There cannot be one "right" religion; 3) No one has the right to tell someone of another religion that theirs is wrong; 4) No religion can be chosen over another (equal validity); 5) All religions are invalid, because they are based on fantasy, not reality; 6) Religions were invented "constructs" to control society and bring order; 7) Religion prevents us from admitting that we do not have all the answers; 8) Science is the true "religion" shining light on man - our beliefs should conform to our scientific discoveries.

It would take too long to reply here, but all of these can be answered satisfactorily. Actually, there are some things the video says that I agree with. However, there is a lot that is wrong with it as well. I understand from >Status Poster< that he is working on answering some questions for you. I will "bow out" and let him follow up with you on those questions.
Quote
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
- Philosopher John Stuart Mill, from a Parliamentary debate (May 31, 1866);

Offline jdawg70

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Re: "The Woo is Strong in This One"
« Reply #43 on: May 25, 2012, 06:34:37 PM »
He watched the video and copped out.

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Elliot: I watched the video. The conclusions the video make are: 1) Most people inherit their religious faith from their parents/culture - it is not an individual choice; 2) There cannot be one "right" religion; 3) No one has the right to tell someone of another religion that theirs is wrong; 4) No religion can be chosen over another (equal validity); 5) All religions are invalid, because they are based on fantasy, not reality; 6) Religions were invented "constructs" to control society and bring order; 7) Religion prevents us from admitting that we do not have all the answers; 8) Science is the true "religion" shining light on man - our beliefs should conform to our scientific discoveries.

It would take too long to reply here, but all of these can be answered satisfactorily. Actually, there are some things the video says that I agree with. However, there is a lot that is wrong with it as well. I understand from >Status Poster< that he is working on answering some questions for you. I will "bow out" and let him follow up with you on those questions.

Guess the answers wouldn't fit in the margin.
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