Religion casts a dark shadow..

[jeremy0]

Let me describe to you a scenario: 

A population overthrows the government for corruption.  They replace it with a form of democracy.  However, they vote in all their 'religious leaders', because they presume they will do the right things - after all, they are their good leaders.  Then the same religious leaders, power-hungry as they have always been, use their religion and newly appointed government seats to enact total control over the people, use their power to wage warfare on those other countries or groups that they hate, and send millions of people and children to their deaths to push their own agendas...

Because people are in this religion, they are blind to what is going on.  It seems to make sense to them why children would run across a mine-field to clear the way for tanks and in return get a multitude of virgins in heaven.  After a while, these people might wake up to what is really going on, and again revolt.

This is a description of the recent history of Iran.  It may be a description of many other middle-eastern countries, namely Egypt.  The election of the Brotherhood will almost guarantee that same scenario..

Now let me give you another scenario.  You have a democracy.  Or a republic - who cares about the specifics.  They feed rich people's desires in return for money - lots of money.  The entire system is corrupt - from the judicial system, to the lawmakers, to the law enforcement and protectors of the people.  However, nobody is aware of it, because they all are distracted by their religion and what these groups have to say seem to coincide with religious preaching.  Additionally, these people are all content with their lives, even being out on the streets, with the thought that they will somehow be 'rewarded' in the next life in heaven for their plight..  So eventually it all turns to crap, the economy cyclically and structurally collapses repetitively for about 50-100 years before it is finally reversed, if at that point this country hasn't lost everything it has to another nation through war, at a time when they have weakened themselves beyond immediate repair...

This is a description of the united states.  Sound shocking?  It's what I'm seeing now that I'm not distracted.  All of our financial trends are on a path to unsustainability, we are spending more money than we have, another country owns most of our debt which we may very well not be able to pay, and these trends could take a very extended period of time before anything serious is done about it.  This is because nobody is acting to stop these trends.  All that is needed is to look at current financial problems that face the country, see that nothing serious is being done about it, and give things a little thought to realize what is likely to happen here..

Sad story.  I must admit.  Religion is largely to blame for blinding both parties.  Therefore, we should be waging a war on religion..

[screwtape]

However, they vote in all their 'religious leaders', because they presume they will do the right things - after all, they are their good leaders. 

It's not that simple.  In many places, like Egypt and Afgnahistan, the ONLY organized opposition to the draconian (US supported) government, is some kind of islamic/ islamist organization. They are better organized, have money, better leadership (though arguably misguided) and for the most part devoid of the corruption of other politicians.  there are trade offs which suck.  Especially if you are a woman. 

[jeremy0]

Ah - meat or potatoes?   

[StripeDog]

You seem to have a good understanding of the situation, with a few other details missing.

I'd like to hear more about how you feel about the issue.

[jeremy0]

StripeDog, I've done about everything a single person can do to help out around here.  Nobody really gives a shit.  That's the real problem.  And when they do, you can be sure the people that only give a shit about themselves and what they can gain for themselves will screw it all up. 

The only real solution is to leave all of the decision-making and power in the direct hands of the population.  And the internet today makes that possible.  Consider what it would have taken to accomplish that back then?  It would have been a nightmare.  These days, we can wiki anything; people could read about it and vote on their lunchbreaks.  If it even mattered to them at all. 

What I'm saying is we can't fix our current problems with the same stuff that got us here in the first place.  We don't need a new wheel for a model-T.  We need a new wheel for a new car - like a honda.

[StripeDog]

When it comes to helping others see your perspectives, especially on such a widely opinionated matter, you can never expect them to see it, no matter how logical it may be. It's because it takes time on their own hands and terms to realize it.

As for your perspective of humanity as of now, it is beyond accurate. Since everyone has their own perogative in what they want in life, it is next to impossible to get everyone on the same page... personally I've stopped shortly after I began. Myself, I believe that there should be no government, and that the people should spread out of their maze-cities and live more communally, but I'm aware that, as with what you have mentioned, the sheer vapidness of people today who have been conditioned to live a paved life that has been passed down for every generation, it is clearly not within their power to be self-sustaining and responsible for their own welfare.

This truth is more prevalent than ever before, on  the web and on the radio. Then the question is bound to be asked: why don't the people do anything to change it? Well, you can thank modern conveniences and society in general for keeping people wrapped up in their detrimental choices and habits that last for generations, (religion, politics, the ever-increasing dependency of technology). Humanity has been but going backwards ever since mass industry and high density populations.

But thankfully, as conscious individuals, the legacy of the "system" does not have to be taken.

[jeremy0]

Stripe:

Good intellect on this subject.  I would say if you felt like giving up - it's generally as I find it that the people that could make the difference currently aren't listening - for a variety of reasons.  That said, we can wait for things to absolutely reach a collapse point - a point of instability and collapse - and at that time press the topics.  Perhaps we are just being proactive, whereas everyone else wants to be reactive...

[StripeDog]

As far as instability goes, societal and governmental collapse would be in humanity itself's best interest, not to mention the rest of the living planet. So then the common person would have no other choice but to realize the truth about the life they once lived.
But then what would you do? I know what I would do. 

[fasi345]

their may be some confusion in someone's understanding

[Frank]

. Myself, I believe that there should be no government, and that the people should spread out of their maze-cities and live more communally,

Even in communal living there has to be some kind of hierachy. There is no instance in recorded human history when we were without some kind of government. People need law, order, and boundaries. Take these away and all you have is anarchy and suvival of the fittest.

[none]

recorded history is the problem!

[Nam]

Yeah, let's bring back the Dark Ages.

-Nam

[Frank]

recorded history is the problem!

Well it's the only history we have so it will have to do.

[Garja]

Yeah, let's bring back the Dark Ages.

-Nam

You've seen the anti-science nut jobs right?  I think we are trying our damnedest to get there.

[Nam]

We can bring back the Inquisition, too, and show how loving the Christians are.

-Nam

[StripeDog]

Even in communal living there has to be some kind of hierachy. There is no instance in recorded human history when we were without some kind of government. People need law, order, and boundaries. Take these away and all you have is anarchy and suvival of the fittest.

I know. I didn't mean to make it seem that way. I've been to the communes before, and a form of leadership is essential to community.
Though natural selection still exists to this day, and would apply in a time in history where mankind lives in states of survival. The only thing that keeps us from relying on our primitive instincts, is the societies that we have lived in for ages.