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Offline jeremy0

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Why I don't believe a god exists..
« on: May 19, 2012, 11:45:22 PM »
In every written history of mankind, the unexplained was attempted to be explained by creating stories - mystical stories.  Religion used to evolve as we gained more knowledge.  However, for some reason we got stuck around the turn from BC to AD, and religion stopped evolving.  We could point to Joseph Smith, however, it is still based on concepts from 0BC.  We need science now.  We need to be intelligent beings - to live to our full potential.  We need to have a common understanding on a vast array of topics - to become up-to-date with the latest developments, and not be deceived by populous opinion or the media or certain special-interest groups.  If you want to know the truth, the information is out there waiting.  You just have to have a good brain and know who to listen to...

I am on the internet, in some situations scouring for information that I may find fascinating.  I may not dive into all the details of science, however, all I need is the basic understanding, or a brief.  I'm not interested in creating the glue to m-theory and relativity or something.  I have my own area of expertise.

Like any person trying to make sense of their lives, I was searching for answers.  Why?  How?  What's the purpose?  Many people over the ages have been asking these same questions, over and over.  All of their answers to these questions was that life had some higher meaning, and a deity was behind all of it.  You may get diluted enough to say that there is a god working through you, or that he does things for you - however, it is you, through individual effort and the need for acheivement, doing those things, and other people doing their things.  As well, this place is actually quite chaotic. 

However, there is a pause to the chaos.  it's something as simple as a mental state of mind.  I've found during my life that emotions guide your decision-making.  But emotions are simply a state of mind, that can be guided and controlled to some degree.  That being said, trying to belong to a religion is just an emotional prompt to belong to something bigger than yourself, or belonging to a group and therefore avoiding isolation.

However, I rather enjoy the shadows, the feeling of a cold chill and carrying around a pelt and broadsword as my kindred did, being the lone wolf that you don't really want to back into a corner.  I used to pray that people would finally understand me.  Then I knew if I didn't take action myself, it was never going to happen..

There was a point in my life when I knew prayer never really worked.  So I stopped praying, at least for myself or my own things.  Then, when I saw other people praying, especially at a time when people needed to act swiftly and aggressively on a heated topic or many lives would be endangered, I found myself springing into action.  Ever since then, I've been an activist...

While I understood Jesus to a certain translation of my own accord (everything good), there were details I had to ignore in order for it to all fit.  The same is true for anyone who associates Jesus' words to their own lives.  In that realization (everyone has their own interpretations of Jesus, and none of it is apparently wrong to them), I found that the words of Jesus and Revelation were essentially no different than when my tarot cards were getting read to me.  It all seemed to happen or make sense at some point in time.  I can refer back to Nostradamus (sp?) and say the same.  You can't look into the future and say - this is exactly how, when, and where it will happen; but when something does happen that can be applied to what was said, you think it's undeniably the 'prophecy'.

Many people today even consider themselves prophets - just like the older days, they are all prophesizing about things that are supposed to happen soon - in their own lifetimes.  Some people consider things such a mess that only a deity could resolve.  So they pray, or they prophesize, or they try to forcibly bring about the end of time.  Either way, it's all coconuts, and they have all been wrong in recently recorded history..

So I stopped praying, and started acting.  I started to make a difference in this life, even though I became an easy target and also a sort of a extremist in some ways.  However, I find what I do to be well worth the time - and I even work on things I wanted to accomplish in this life while I have the time.  What else is better to spend your time doing than doing the things you always wanted to do, as well as being the biggest benefit to society and people in general that you can be?

I am not a perfect person.  Not all of my ideas are spot-on every first time.  However, taking the time to work through the details can be rewarding - even if it's something as simple as spurring a new conversation or starting a new idea that could re-shape our lives, and create a better reality for us all.  I'm tired of living by the standards that this environment has put me in.  I want to create a better system, however that can happen.  I want to ensure that this place is taken care of for my brothers' kids and their kids.  I am tired, and displeased at the thought of, continuing to stand by while people screw this place up past recognition or towards collapse or destruction.  In many cases, I look forward at trendlines and see the loss of life.  I can do something about it before it happens, and so I will try to do what I can.  But it takes other people, in certain other positions, to achieve things these days.  So there comes a point when you need friends - and I never really had any before.  I hope in time we can engage in open dialect, as the internet has prompted us to be able to do.

Provided, I am not a good conversationist.  Just as you are swayed by your emotions, I can't keep control of mine at all times, either - even though I am correctly described as 'passive, passive.' 

Many people have the wrong idea about me - even when they first meet me.  I felt that was a problem.  I've done something about that in my professional life, and now it's starting to take root.  However, my personal life is still isolated by incorrect rumors.  I find that since people can't act like we should and just pick a fist-fight with me instead of playing social games that I can only sue about, this is getting to be some serious nonsense that I am growing rather tired of.  So excuse me if I happen to swear at you when I get angry.

But the realization that this life may be all you have made me sure as hell want to accomplish the things I've been wanting to accomplish since becoming an adult.  I've never wanted the same things as many others - like a family or numerous friends.  I'm here because I've decided life is a mess, we have a lot of problems, and we need to sort through all the solutions and fix these problems now.  For the betterment of tomorrow and your kids' futures.  Because of atheism and this site, I am closer to achieving such goals.  I've gotten better about spreading thoughts and ideas, and my own ideas have become less extreme and more plausible.  I argue that while we are doing some things right, in some cases we aren't doing enough.  However, many are still diluted by old concepts and old ideas, that are irrelevant today or have entirely changed.  So people have the wrong opinions, and that's a barrier to getting things done.  But at least I'm engaged in solving the problems of our time, having fun while I'm doing it, and not taking anything too seriously.  This is well worth my effort. 

My belief system, discluding religion, was always based on a set of realistic, small, simple beliefs about myself and the type of person I am.  That was a good base - I wasn't destroyed when I found out through finally coming across this site, that Jesus was not god.  All I needed to know was who I was, and it didn't matter how people saw me, because I already knew what I was capable of from the start.

However, I would challenge the rest of you, including me, to find ways to promote REALITY, instead of calling it 'the truth'.  What is the truth, really?  The truth is whatever happened in reality.  When people speak of the truth, unless they are referring to themselves then the only thing they can go by is undeniable evidence.  However, evidence can be subject to falsity.  But that's all we have to go by when referring to externals.  Therefore, the only way we can achieve progress in today's environment is to promote evidence of our theories and studies.  When I theorize about something, it's just a theory.  But when it's debated and tested to the extent where it's a proven technique, now I have done something worth my while..  we need to find a proven technique at waking up people from religion, and promoting a sort of peaceful attitude towards people that have graduated from religion and embraced 'scientific evidence'. 

As all the evidence we have gathered about the 'reality' of this universe is made evident; and the old, ancient notions of deities controlling or causing things is becoming more evident of being false.  How many times does a religion need contrary evidence and no supporting evidence before the person says 'I should let this go'. 

And when that person lets go of the idea that things can and should wait until the 'next life', and realizes that they only have this life to do everything they want to in this one life - spend time with the ones you care most about, get to know strangers, make a difference, do what you dreamed of, etc., then you have someone that has immediately sprung into action.  And that, my friends, is called an 'awakening'.

I want to wake everyone up to the problems we face, not in some other reality, but in our own reality.  I want people thinking in terms of this reality, and what to do for themselves and those around them - to make the earth a better place and to preserve our environment.  That is the stance that everyone should take - human progression.  A better understanding.  Something that puts a positive twist on every human.  Something to actually create world peace.  Something worth your while. 

Just some thoughts...
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 12:05:12 AM by jeremy0 »
"If you find yourself reaching for the light, first realize that it has already touched your finger."
"If I were your god, I would have no reason for judgement, and you have all told endless lies about me.  Wait - you do already. I am not amused by your ignorance, thoughtlessness, and shallow mind."

Offline jeremy0

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2012, 12:05:35 AM »
Aaghghg!  Wall of text!   :o  8)

In summary,
a.  I don't believe in a deity because no deity has ever done anything in reality, it has all been the illusion of such a deity doing something.
b.  Nobody has every done humanity any good by being dead
c.  Because of a. and b., you realize that it is extremely important to not wait for some 'next life' to do something - do it now while you're still alive, if you can.
d.  Because we only get this one life, each of our lives are extremely important to me, and more valuable to me than anything else.  Life is precious.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 12:20:47 AM by jeremy0 »
"If you find yourself reaching for the light, first realize that it has already touched your finger."
"If I were your god, I would have no reason for judgement, and you have all told endless lies about me.  Wait - you do already. I am not amused by your ignorance, thoughtlessness, and shallow mind."

Offline meconopsilo

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2012, 06:50:59 PM »
well said. props bro
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Offline springrain

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2012, 06:55:23 AM »
Indeed! We don't need to imagine a heaven because our world itself is beautiful and magnificent. Sadly, not everyone values it, not even for their children and children's children.  Once death hits us, we're gone! There is no such thing as after life. I don't believe in it. This idea was only created because of fear...fear of the gods and fear of death. One has to conquer these fears, only then freedom is real.

I am with you in this : "life is a mess, we have a lot of problems, and we need to sort through all the solutions and fix these problems now". To start solving these problems we need to help others realize that it is just us in a chaotic world where Nature is indifferent.

I chose to be child-free. I chose to be as environment-friendly as I can be. And as to friends, well, I don't need many friends (I even think I don't have any...except for my husband) but some friends with similar values, principles and goals will be good to have.

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? - Epicurus

Offline LADYBUG

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2012, 01:36:58 PM »
IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD,AND YOU THINK SCIENCE IS THE ANSWER.I THINK EVEN SCIENCE PROVES THERE IS A GOD.THERE IS PROOF IN THE PUDDING.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2012, 01:41:33 PM »
I THINK EVEN SCIENCE PROVES THERE IS A GOD.

Then by all means, explain how.  (But please find your caps lock key first.  Thank you.)
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Offline Quesi

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2012, 01:43:18 PM »
IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD,AND YOU THINK SCIENCE IS THE ANSWER.I THINK EVEN SCIENCE PROVES THERE IS A GOD.THERE IS PROOF IN THE PUDDING.

Welcome to the forum, Ladybug.  Please share the scientific evidence for a god.  And share some pudding too. 

Online Aaron123

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2012, 01:52:19 PM »
IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD,AND YOU THINK SCIENCE IS THE ANSWER.I THINK EVEN SCIENCE PROVES THERE IS A GOD.THERE IS PROOF IN THE PUDDING.

Well someone needs to put a pill in your pudding.  You're a bundle of nerves...
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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2012, 01:59:35 PM »
Ladybug, science should not need to prove that there is a god. Depending on your definition of god, we should all be able to easily know that god exists, just like we can all know that the sun exists. Depending on what god is like, however, we may or may not decide to worship it.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2012, 03:57:23 PM »
I LIKE PUDDING!
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Offline Dante

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2012, 04:01:33 PM »
You wont get any meat, unless you eat your pudding!
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline rev45

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2012, 04:25:18 PM »
IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD,AND YOU THINK SCIENCE IS THE ANSWER.I THINK EVEN SCIENCE PROVES THERE IS A GOD.THERE IS PROOF IN THE PUDDING.
You think but can you show science proving a god?
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Offline Gohavesomefun

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2012, 06:34:26 PM »
Sounds like you've been on quite a personal journey my friend.

If you've found solice in your beliefs, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Only you know whats right for you.

Enjoyed reading your post too!
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Offline Quesi

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2012, 07:49:11 PM »
You wont get any meat, unless you eat your pudding!

I'm so old I saw Pink Floyd's Wall tour on Long Island.  If I remember, there were only 12 US shows.  Very coveted tickets.  Said I was sleeping at L's house to work on a science project, and L said she was sleeping at my house, and we both slept in the parking lot at Ticketmaster?  Ticketron?  What was it called?  Got tickets that morning, and made it to second period class, if I remember correctly. 

Offline JeffPT

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2012, 08:58:19 PM »
IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD,AND YOU THINK SCIENCE IS THE ANSWER.I THINK EVEN SCIENCE PROVES THERE IS A GOD.THERE IS PROOF IN THE PUDDING.

Which specific brand of pudding has direct proof of an omnimax deity in it?  I'd like to purchase some. 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline Astreja

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2012, 11:21:03 PM »
IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD,AND YOU THINK SCIENCE IS THE ANSWER.I THINK EVEN SCIENCE PROVES THERE IS A GOD.THERE IS PROOF IN THE PUDDING.
Hi there!  *wave wave wave*

Pudding, eh?  I'll trade you My recipe for Maple Crème Brulée (a truly divine pudding, IMNSHO) if you supply Me with three (3) peer-reviewed links from legitimate science journals that clearly outline how one conducts a double-blind godsearch.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2012, 07:06:16 AM »
You wont get any meat, unless you eat your pudding!

If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding!
How can you have any pudding, if you don't eat your meat?!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Another_Brick_in_the_Wall#Composition_2

As the great Raymond K Hessel once PM'd me, Dude, you just don't fuck with the Floyd. 
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Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2012, 11:49:12 AM »
Pudding, eh?  I'll trade you My recipe for Maple Crème Brulée (a truly divine pudding, IMNSHO) if you supply Me with three (3) peer-reviewed links from legitimate science journals that clearly outline how one conducts a double-blind godsearch.

Surely there must be an easier way to get to your pudding.

I would do anything for Maple Creme Brulee but I won't do that.
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Offline JesusHChrist

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2012, 11:54:25 AM »
I'm so old I saw Pink Floyd's Wall tour on Long Island.  If I remember, there were only 12 US shows.  Very coveted tickets.  Said I was sleeping at L's house to work on a science project, and L said she was sleeping at my house, and we both slept in the parking lot at Ticketmaster?  Ticketron?  What was it called?  Got tickets that morning, and made it to second period class, if I remember correctly.

My brother got us tickets for one of the shows at the LA Sports Arena, 20th row or so. Great seats and a great show. The curtains behind the stage even caught on fire. We all thought it was part of the show. Turns out, it wasn't. Band didn't miss a beat.
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Offline Gnu Ordure

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2012, 05:51:01 PM »
I'm so old I saw Pink Floyd's Wall tour on Long Island.
Ha!

I saw Floyd twice, in '71 for the Atom Heart Mother tour (with the Birmingham Symphony Orchestra), and in '73 for the Dark Side of the Moon tour.

I seem to remember telling Ray about this one time and driving him half-insane with envy. Which was my intention.

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2012, 06:18:03 PM »
I like Pink Floyd. Back in the day, even black people knew they were cool.

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Grab that cash with both hands and make a stash...."

Do we need a Pink Floyd thread now?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Astreja

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2012, 11:01:32 PM »
Pudding, eh?  I'll trade you My recipe for Maple Crème Brulée (a truly divine pudding, IMNSHO) if you supply Me with three (3) peer-reviewed links from legitimate science journals that clearly outline how one conducts a double-blind godsearch.

Surely there must be an easier way to get to your pudding.

I would do anything for Maple Creme Brulee but I won't do that.

Fair enough; life's too short to *not* have Maple Crème Brulée.  (Springy G  consults with Her handsome Personal Assistant, Glori the Kitchen Dragon, who has an archive of Her recipes near at hand)

Quote from: Glori the Kitchen Dragon
Three words about this recipe: Best. Dessert. Ever.

And surprisingly easy to make, too.

In the top section of a double boiler, combine two cups 18% cream (a.k.a. "coffee cream") with one cup pure maple syrup. If you like, you can also add 1/2 teaspoon maple flavouring (more for colour than anything) and a smidgen of brandy or brandy extract. I'll leave it to your tastebuds to decide how much a "smidgen" should be. Start heating this mixture over boiling water, and stir frequently.

While this is warming up, combine 1/4 cup cornstarch with a small amount of liquid. It can be some of the mixture from the pot, or a bit of milk or cream. Stir until you have a well-dissolved cornstarch solution.

Still stirring the mixture in the pot, drizzle the cornstarch mixture into it and mix well. Bring to a boil, stirring constantly. If you've done it right, it will thicken into maple pudding right before your very eyes. Spoon the thickened mixture into oven-friendly custard cups or ramekins. Allow to cool till there's a fairly firm skin on top of the pudding.

Finally, sprinkle a fairly thick layer of coarse sugar onto the tops of the puddings. Brown and turbinado both work fine. Put the dishes on a cookie sheet or in a 9x13 pan, and broil (at medium distance, not too close) until the sugar melts into a crust. You can also resort to such nefarious means as a chef's torch if you have such a contraption; in fact, this is the preferred method of melting the sugar.

Et voilà! It's dessert for 4-6 people.
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Offline DumpsterFire

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #22 on: August 24, 2012, 08:37:05 AM »
I know this thread is in danger of being hijacked by the Floyd, but I have to add that I finally got to see The Wall (my all-time favorite album) performed live 2 months ago. Not quite the same as seeing it back in the day of course, as this was just Roger Waters + hired band, but it was still awesome! Plus, modern technology made it possible to project things over the entire literal wall on the stage, completely changing its appearance when desired. Ol' Mr. Waters is getting pretty long in the tooth, but he still got around OK, and he sounded great.

I'm no kid anymore, either, but I was too young to see and appreciate the original Wall tour. Hell, I didn't even know they existed at that point in my life. So it was quite a treat to get to see the one show I always wished I could go back in time to see. It would have been even better if it had included Dave Gilmore, but it was amazing nevertheless.

Funny how a single reference to pudding totally skewed the discussion.

You don't suppose LADYBUG was implying that Roger Waters is god, do you?
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Offline Quesi

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2012, 09:32:25 AM »
I'm so old I saw Pink Floyd's Wall tour on Long Island.
Ha!

I saw Floyd twice, in '71 for the Atom Heart Mother tour (with the Birmingham Symphony Orchestra), and in '73 for the Dark Side of the Moon tour.

Damn.  Atom Heart Mother AND Dark Side of the Moon?  I am humbled in your presence. 

I know this thread is in danger of being hijacked by the Floyd, but I have to add that I finally got to see The Wall (my all-time favorite album) performed live 2 months ago.

Eh.  Jeremy hasn't been around in a while, and although I do try to be nice to visiting theists, Ladybug appears to be a drive by with nothing serious to contribute, so I feel no guilt about wandering off topic. 

Congratulations on FINALLY seeing The Wall. 

My brother got us tickets for one of the shows at the LA Sports Arena, 20th row or so. Great seats and a great show. The curtains behind the stage even caught on fire. We all thought it was part of the show. Turns out, it wasn't. Band didn't miss a beat.

Much better seats than I had.  But I was there. 

And speaking of seats....

Does anyone remember when some stadium concerts had assigned seats, and others were dubbed "dance concerts" which was a euphemism for open seating? 

When I was a teenager, I was not allowed to attend concerts that said "dance concert" on the ticket. 

My mother said she did not want me dancing with strange boys.

I guess she envisioned an Aerosmith concert, or a Queen concert, circa 1978/79, as being sort of like a jr high school dance, in which nervous, giggly girls stood against a wall, winding their hair around their fingers, and waiting for a pimply faced boy to escort them to the dance floor in hopes of squeezing their backsides briefly. 

And my parents were pretty worldly folks. 

Oh my.  I wonder what misconceptions I will have about my daughter's activities as she goes through the teenage years. 

Offline nogodsforme

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2012, 12:43:55 PM »
We don't have to worry. The kids nowadays are all having virtual sex with holograms of rock stars. ;)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline veeshdog

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2012, 03:30:34 PM »
IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD,AND YOU THINK SCIENCE IS THE ANSWER.I THINK EVEN SCIENCE PROVES THERE IS A GOD.THERE IS PROOF IN THE PUDDING.

I'm a Christian and I just joined the forum in order to create better conversation than this...

Offline Emily

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2012, 03:39:10 PM »
I'm a Christian and I just joined the forum in order to create better conversation than this...

Welcome to the forum, veeshdog.  :) I am looking forward to your contributions. The contribution by Ladybug is a typical response we get here. Just an FYI: A common question for new comers is why they cannot post a new thread. You'll have make two more posts in current threads in order to start your own. You might've read already, but I'm just tossing that out there.
"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

Offline Quesi

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2012, 04:17:14 PM »
Welcome Veeshdog.  We certainly do look forward to learning more about you and your beliefs.  I have no doubt that you can contribute more articulately to conversations on this forum. 


Offline pianodwarf

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Re: Why I don't believe a god exists..
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2012, 06:03:35 PM »
I'm a Christian and I just joined the forum in order to create better conversation than this...

Hi, Veeshdog, welcome to WWGHA.  I hope you enjoy participating in the forums.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn