Author Topic: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"  (Read 3261 times)

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Offline Timo

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #58 on: June 05, 2012, 05:22:10 AM »


"Only in America, or possibly Canada..."
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Offline Frank

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #59 on: June 05, 2012, 07:02:34 AM »
.  There have not, in my view, been many systems of government in history, that have allowed the "little guy" to find his own happiness in what ever pursuit would come to his mind.  A person may  have no royal blood, but being diligent, saving his money, and amassing some wealth, he might find some measure of contentment in his life.  Through recorded history, not many of the peasant class could do that. 

Some *little guys". Obviously weren't dilligent enough.


Black refugees evicted from sharecropping, now on the roadside. Parkin, Arkansas, 1936
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Offline screwtape

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #60 on: June 05, 2012, 07:14:13 AM »
Some *little guys". Obviously weren't dilligent enough.

You understand, Frank, your sarcasm may be lost.  That is the whole argument of many conservatives.  Anyone who is poor is lazy, because the US is a perfect meritocracy. So your post is a good example of Poe's Law.

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Offline Frank

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #61 on: June 05, 2012, 07:24:37 AM »
Some *little guys". Obviously weren't dilligent enough.

You understand, Frank, your sarcasm may be lost.  That is the whole argument of many conservatives.  Anyone who is poor is lazy, because the US is a perfect meritocracy. So your post is a good example of Poe's Law.

Well I don't know much about Poes. We don't get many of them over here but we do get conservatives and they talk exactly the same bollox here that they spout over there.
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Offline Nick

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #62 on: June 05, 2012, 07:58:38 AM »
Yeah, you don't understand that we all can be in the 1% if we work hard enough.  Thats all the conservatives want.  God, guns, and hard work.  The old protestant work ethic.  Don't be a liberal freeloader.  I think it is called "tough shit love".
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline DKEN

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #63 on: June 05, 2012, 08:15:03 AM »
     I am not saying that certain people (blacks, Jews, Italians, Irish, Native Americans, etc.) have not had a tough time with bias at different times.  It is not easy, either, putting out extended effort.  Every body can get weary.  That's not the point.  At it's best, life is not fair.  We all are taught that at our mother's knee.  If not, life looks pretty bad.
     Where in history was slavery abolished by written law before England and then the USA?  There is still slavery of different types today around the world.  Slavery and poor treatment of all sorts of different people groups has been going on since recorded history.  Why vilify the places that actually are trying to get it right unless there is an agenda of some sort?

Offline DKEN

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #64 on: June 05, 2012, 08:20:48 AM »
     We had lynchings in America right up till the 60's.  It was the southern Democrats, BTW, that did the lynching.  Jim Crow laws and KKK groups were all white Democrats and probably most attended some sort of church and claimed to be Christians.  Christians die for their enemies, they don't kill them.   If it weren't for the Christians, we would still have slavery and lynchings.  I'm sorry that I'm not good at cutting and pasting or we could find lots of evidence to that fact.  I don't recall many evolutionists giving their lives for the cause of freeing the slaves.

Offline Frank

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #65 on: June 05, 2012, 08:42:29 AM »
     We had lynchings in America right up till the 60's.  It was the southern Democrats, BTW, that did the lynching.  Jim Crow laws and KKK groups were all white Democrats and probably most attended some sort of church and claimed to be Christians.  Christians die for their enemies, they don't kill them.   If it weren't for the Christians, we would still have slavery and lynchings.  I'm sorry that I'm not good at cutting and pasting or we could find lots of evidence to that fact.  I don't recall many evolutionists giving their lives for the cause of freeing the slaves.

Famouse last words "I give my life to end slavery. BTW Did I mention I accept the theory of evolution?"



Maybe you could point out to me which ones are democrats and which ones are republicans in the above picture. They all just look white to me. Maybe they lynched them for not being diligent enough.

As for your "Christians die for their enemies, they don't kill them." remark. Tell me this. What is the name of the most heavily armed christian country in history? A country that has been involved in numerous wars and killed millions of people right across the globe. The only country to ever use nuclear weapons on a civilian population. I'll give you a clue. Your living in it.
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Offline Timo

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #66 on: June 05, 2012, 09:01:01 AM »
Slavery and poor treatment of all sorts of different people groups has been going on since recorded history.  Why vilify the places that actually are trying to get it right unless there is an agenda of some sort?

I guess I have an agenda.  Or maybe it's more of a bias.  I'm a black person.  My anscestors were enslaved.  (Some of them in this country, but most of them in other parts of the Americas.)  And even after slavery we were brutally oppressed, formally, as a matter of policy.  Do you understand why I might have a problem with a discussion of the unique greatness of a country that made a point of treating my people like animals for most of its history.

I really don't even understand why I'm supposed to be pattying anyone on the back for trying to get it right.  Gee thanks mister, it's so great of you to treat me like a person.

We had lynchings in America right up till the 60's.  It was the southern Democrats, BTW, that did the lynching.  Jim Crow laws and KKK groups were all white Democrats and probably most attended some sort of church and claimed to be Christians.

This is a nonsense argument. 

Party labels have come to mean different things over the years.  The coalitions that make up our political parties are always changing.  I mean, you can claim that without Republican support all the landmark civil rights legislation that we all heart so much wouldn't have passed and you'd be right.  But you'd be ignoring the fact that the Republican party of the 1950s and 60s is not the Republican party of today.  There has been a reallignment.  My grandmother, for example, used to be a Republican but like a lot of people she switched parties when the Republicans nominated Goldwater.  And really, the Republican party of today is more Goldwater than say, Nelson Rockefellor.  Indeed, there are Republican governments all over the country that are monkeying with voting laws in ways that will have a disperate effect on minority voters, all to stamp out the virtually nonexistent crime of voter fraud.

So nah, there's been a pretty dramatic change.  The South is now solidly Republican and black people are voting for Democrats.  That kind of tells you everything you need to know about why this argument is nonsense.  I think the funniest thing though was dude from the National Review trying to make this same point while conveniently ignoring the fact that his magazines founder, one of the intellectual pillars of modern conservatism, William Buckley was opposed to civil rights for blacks.

Christians die for their enemies, they don't kill them.   If it weren't for the Christians, we would still have slavery and lynchings.  I'm sorry that I'm not good at cutting and pasting or we could find lots of evidence to that fact.  I don't recall many evolutionists giving their lives for the cause of freeing the slaves.

Now we're getting silly.

Homie, Origen of the Species didn't even come out until 1859, right around the time when we were entering the civil war.  I really see no reason to confuse these two issues.  And nah, you can (rightly) claim that if it weren't for Christians we wouldn't have abolished slavery and lynchings but you're ignoring the fact that it was Christians doing the enslaving and lynching.

This is absurd.
Nah son...

Offline screwtape

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #67 on: June 05, 2012, 09:04:54 AM »
Well I don't know much about Poes.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poe's_Law
Quote
Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing.

It applies beyond religious fundamentalists to any extreme position.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #68 on: June 05, 2012, 09:18:09 AM »
     We had lynchings in America right up till the 60's.  It was the southern Democrats, BTW, that did the lynching. 

Do you know what happened to all those southern democrats?  They became republicans.[1]  So, they're your huckleberry now.

Anyway, your statement is less than accurate.  It would be more appropriate to say it was done by southern racists.  And I bet a lot of them were xian.

Christians die for their enemies, they don't kill them.

That is demonstrably untrue, DKEN.  Was it xians who fought the nazis in ww2?  Yes.  And while they did in fact do a lot of unintentional dying, they also did a lot of killing.

  If it weren't for the Christians, we would still have slavery and lynchings. 

That's true.  But to be fair, if it weren't for the xians, we also would not have had slavery in North America in the first place.  Columbus, the Portugese and the Spaniards were all xians.

 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Democrats
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Offline DKEN

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #69 on: June 05, 2012, 09:20:33 AM »
Slavery and poor treatment of all sorts of different people groups has been going on since recorded history.  Why vilify the places that actually are trying to get it right unless there is an agenda of some sort?

I guess I have an agenda.  Or maybe it's more of a bias.  I'm a black person.  My anscestors were enslaved.  (Some of them in this country, but most of them in other parts of the Americas.)  And even after slavery we were brutally oppressed, formally, as a matter of policy.  Do you understand why I might have a problem with a discussion of the unique greatness of a country that made a point of treating my people like animals for most of its history.

I really don't even understand why I'm supposed to be pattying anyone on the back for trying to get it right.  Gee thanks mister, it's so great of you to treat me like a person.

We had lynchings in America right up till the 60's.  It was the southern Democrats, BTW, that did the lynching.  Jim Crow laws and KKK groups were all white Democrats and probably most attended some sort of church and claimed to be Christians.

This is a nonsense argument. 

Party labels have come to mean different things over the years.  The coalitions that make up our political parties are always changing.  I mean, you can claim that without Republican support all the landmark civil rights legislation that we all heart so much wouldn't have passed and you'd be right.  But you'd be ignoring the fact that the Republican party of the 1950s and 60s is not the Republican party of today.  There has been a reallignment.  My grandmother, for example, used to be a Republican but like a lot of people she switched parties when the Republicans nominated Goldwater.  And really, the Republican party of today is more Goldwater than say, Nelson Rockefellor.  Indeed, there are Republican governments all over the country that are monkeying with voting laws in ways that will have a disperate effect on minority voters, all to stamp out the virtually nonexistent crime of voter fraud.

So nah, there's been a pretty dramatic change.  The South is now solidly Republican and black people are voting for Democrats.  That kind of tells you everything you need to know about why this argument is nonsense.  I think the funniest thing though was dude from the National Review trying to make this same point while conveniently ignoring the fact that his magazines founder, one of the intellectual pillars of modern conservatism, William Buckley was opposed to civil rights for blacks.

Christians die for their enemies, they don't kill them.   If it weren't for the Christians, we would still have slavery and lynchings.  I'm sorry that I'm not good at cutting and pasting or we could find lots of evidence to that fact.  I don't recall many evolutionists giving their lives for the cause of freeing the slaves.

Now we're getting silly.

Homie, Origen of the Species didn't even come out until 1859, right around the time when we were entering the civil war.  I really see no reason to confuse these two issues.  And nah, you can (rightly) claim that if it weren't for Christians we wouldn't have abolished slavery and lynchings but you're ignoring the fact that it was Christians doing the enslaving and lynching.

This is absurd.
To claim to be a Christian is not the same as being one.  What does make a person a Christian?  How do you know if some one is?

Offline Timo

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #70 on: June 05, 2012, 09:23:35 AM »
You can't know if someone is a Christian in that way.  I tend to take roughly the same tact as the Republicans seem to be taking with respect to the question of the president's religion.  I take them at their word.
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Offline JeffPT

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #71 on: June 05, 2012, 09:26:51 AM »
     We had lynchings in America right up till the 60's.  It was the southern Democrats, BTW, that did the lynching.  Jim Crow laws and KKK groups were all white Democrats and probably most attended some sort of church and claimed to be Christians.  Christians die for their enemies, they don't kill them.   If it weren't for the Christians, we would still have slavery and lynchings.  I'm sorry that I'm not good at cutting and pasting or we could find lots of evidence to that fact.  I don't recall many evolutionists giving their lives for the cause of freeing the slaves.

You hold a very high opinion of Christians, don't you.  Perhaps you should open your eyes a bit more.  Being Christian has nothing to do with being a good person.  Nothing at all.  Christians kill their enemies just like the next person.  They're not special. They are people; just like everybody else.  Some are good, some are bad. 

I bet your whole life you've thought that being a Christian is a wonderful thing, but it's not.  It's just not.  It promotes in group / out group mentality, it deludes people to think they are lower than dirt and deserving of nothing, it milks people of their hard earned money, it tells you that you are constantly watched by an invisible sky person and that if you screw up, you could pay for it eternally. It preys on gullibility and teaches things about the world that are patently false and utterly ridiculous.  It's not good.  It's not remotely good.  The Christians that remain good in spite of their religious convictions are able to do so because they selectively pick and choose what to agree with from the bible, based on their personal versions of right and wrong.  In other words, when it comes to determining right from wrong, they look inward, then turn to the pages in the bible that seem to support their own personal stance, and then claim their stance came from the bible.  What they don't realize is that it's their own personal judgement first.  Not the bible. 

BTW, the Christians that helped stop slavery pointed to one section of the bible, while the Christians that helped maintain slavery pointed to another part.  Perhaps then, it is fair to say that a good part of the civil war was fought over which part of the bible was true and which was not.  If that is the case, then perhaps if we didn't have that book in the first place, none of it would have happened.  That's impossible to know for sure, but interesting to think about.

“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.”  Steven Weinberg

There is nothing good that a Christian can do that an atheist could not.  But there are plenty of bad things a Christian can do that an atheist would not.  Therefore, the only novel things about Christianity are the bad things. 

To claim to be a Christian is not the same as being one.  What does make a person a Christian?  How do you know if some one is?

We've had a few discussions about this here before, but from my opinion, you can tell a person is a Christian because they tell you they are.  Being a Christian is a definition that depends on what the person making the statement defines it as.  There is no over-arching definition. 

And do NOT confuse being a 'Christian' with being a 'good person'.  It's not the same thing.  The two are unrelated as I said before.  A Christian who looks to the bible in defense of slavery is as much a Christian as the Christian who looks to the bible to denounce it. 
Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline Frank

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #72 on: June 05, 2012, 09:29:14 AM »
Indeed, there are Republican governments all over the country that are monkeying with voting laws in ways that will have a disperate effect on minority voters, all to stamp out the virtually nonexistent crime of voter fraud.


Don't you mean for the very real crime, in their eyes, of voting democrat. You had better make sure any elderly relatives you have are properly registered to vote. I've seen stories of people in their 90's who have voted all their lives suddenly finding themselves without a vote because of totally bogus rule the republicans have enacted.
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Offline Timo

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #73 on: June 05, 2012, 09:40:33 AM »
Indeed, I've got people in Texas and in Florida.
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Offline Frank

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #74 on: June 05, 2012, 09:44:20 AM »
Indeed, I've got people in Texas and in Florida.

Funny isn't it. They stop you voting but they still tax you. Wasn't that the whole point of the American revolution in the first place? Maybe it's time for another revolution.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #75 on: June 05, 2012, 09:47:03 AM »
Indeed, I've got people in Texas and in Florida.

Funny isn't it. They stop you voting but they still tax you. Wasn't that the whole point of the American revolution in the first place? Maybe it's time for another revolution.

that's what the teabaggers say.  The problem with revolution is, the people who start it are seldom the people who end up in control.
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Offline Frank

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #76 on: June 05, 2012, 09:58:11 AM »
Indeed, I've got people in Texas and in Florida.

Funny isn't it. They stop you voting but they still tax you. Wasn't that the whole point of the American revolution in the first place? Maybe it's time for another revolution.

that's what the teabaggers say.  The problem with revolution is, the people who start it are seldom the people who end up in control.

Fuck the teabaggers. Everything from their stupid hats to their caveman politics. No time for them.
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Offline Nam

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #77 on: June 05, 2012, 10:23:11 AM »
Teabaggers: they like balls in their mouths.

-Nam
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Offline Timo

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #78 on: June 05, 2012, 10:32:41 AM »
Teabaggers: they like balls in their mouths.

-Nam

C'mon dude.
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Offline Quesi

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #79 on: June 05, 2012, 10:33:48 AM »
To claim to be a Christian is not the same as being one.  What does make a person a Christian?  How do you know if some one is?

THAT is your response to Timo's piece?  Really? 

You arrived on this forum with much fanfare and thunder about your intellect and vast knowledge, and quite frankly, I'm still waiting to see a demonstration.

For example, you stated that you "don't recall many evolutionists giving their lives for the cause of freeing the slaves."     And Timo responded by providing you with the 1859 publish date of "The Origin of Species."  And your response was some vague question about "what makes a person a Christian?"

Timo also provided you with so very relevant information about the contemporary demographics of the South.  As did Screwtape. 

I'm still waiting for an answer to my questions concerning your statements about devolution, based on your studies of 17th century literature. 

Perhaps you are not accustomed to being in an environment in which you are held accountable when you make up dates and facts.  Perhaps you think that if you make really outrageous, false statements in a haughty enough tone, then everyone will defer to your intellect.  That sort of behavior might fly at a tea party rally.  But I suspect that you will not find much success with that technique here. 

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #80 on: June 05, 2012, 10:42:19 AM »
Fuck the teabaggers. Everything from their stupid hats to their caveman politics. No time for them.

We would love to be able to ignore them, but they are everywhere. I met one this weekend that almost made me mess my pants as she read off a litany of untruths that she thought were destroying the country. She spoke more stupid in the three minutes I listened to her than I have ever heard on the internet, in total.

Sadly, I opted to say nothing, mostly because I was at a very happy graduation party, and the teabagger was an aunt of the girl who was celebrating the end of high school. All I could do is walk away.

But I spent the next hour in awe. How could anyone have that poisoned a mind? I don't care when people disagree over actual issues, but when they condemn via made up crap, all hints of intelligence and chances of civil discourse disappear in one big stinky "poof".

However, now that I know that Missoula, Montana has the largest group of communists in the country (her words), I guess I'd better do something. Like barf. Missoula has a pretty liberal state university, but I assume her claim is an extrapolation of the standard "all college professors are communists" line I've been hearing from fundy's for decades. They just have to make is sound worse.

I assume that if I'd met someone like her in Wisconsin this weekend I'd have been told that the largest group of communists in the country are in Green Bay. If I were in Texas, Austin. What crap.

They've got time to make stuff up and act as if it were true. We have to take the time to fix it.
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Offline Nam

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #81 on: June 05, 2012, 10:42:35 AM »
Teabaggers: they like balls in their mouths.

-Nam

C'mon dude.

What?

-Nam
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Offline Nam

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #82 on: June 05, 2012, 10:48:54 AM »
Fuck the teabaggers. Everything from their stupid hats to their caveman politics. No time for them.

We would love to be able to ignore them, but they are everywhere. I met one this weekend that almost made me mess my pants as she read off a litany of untruths that she thought were destroying the country. She spoke more stupid in the three minutes I listened to her than I have ever heard on the internet, in total.

Sadly, I opted to say nothing, mostly because I was at a very happy graduation party, and the teabagger was an aunt of the girl who was celebrating the end of high school. All I could do is walk away.

But I spent the next hour in awe. How could anyone have that poisoned a mind? I don't care when people disagree over actual issues, but when they condemn via made up crap, all hints of intelligence and chances of civil discourse disappear in one big stinky "poof".

However, now that I know that Missoula, Montana has the largest group of communists in the country (her words), I guess I'd better do something. Like barf. Missoula has a pretty liberal state university, but I assume her claim is an extrapolation of the standard "all college professors are communists" line I've been hearing from fundy's for decades. They just have to make is sound worse.

I assume that if I'd met someone like her in Wisconsin this weekend I'd have been told that the largest group of communists in the country are in Green Bay. If I were in Texas, Austin. What crap.

They've got time to make stuff up and act as if it were true. We have to take the time to fix it.

I heard someone stating a similar thing last year at a store I frequent, and I corrected the person 'cause he was spewing nonsense out of his mouth. He got real quiet after I corrected him. Don't be afraid to correct someone, whether it starts an argument, or not. If those of us out there let these idiots go unchallenged they'll keep spewing their shit to anyone who wants to listen, or not.

-Nam
A god is like a rock: it does absolutely nothing until someone or something forces it to do something. The only capability the rock has is doing nothing until another force compels it physically to move.

The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously - Humphrey

Offline Nick

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #83 on: June 05, 2012, 12:08:39 PM »
I sure hope the girl that graduated does not plan to go on to further education.  She might become intelligent and stand up to her crazy aunt.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Ambassador Pony

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #84 on: June 05, 2012, 06:25:17 PM »
In what way are americans exclusively able to pursue complete personal fulfillment? What is the definition of complete personal fulfillment?

Bump again.

What is complete personal fulfillment? At least help me with that.
You believe evolution and there is no evidence for that. Where is the fossil record of a half man half ape. I've only ever heard about it in reading.

Offline jetson

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Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #85 on: June 05, 2012, 07:57:29 PM »
In what way are americans exclusively able to pursue complete personal fulfillment? What is the definition of complete personal fulfillment?

Bump again.

What is complete personal fulfillment? At least help me with that.

No respect, I tell ya.

Offline shnozzola

Re: New Ad Campaign: "The Defeat Of Barrack Obama"
« Reply #86 on: June 05, 2012, 08:26:12 PM »
To Parking Places - Communists in Montana!! :o ;D

But the Christian/ South references reminded me of the KKK.  I couldn't find a Klansman picture wearing his Christian cross necklace, but I found this site:

                        http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/america-unmasked-the-images-that-reveal-the-ku-klux-klan-is-alive-and-kicking-in-2009-1625732.html?action=gallery&ino=1

It reminds me of the new Nazi movement shown on 60 minutes on Sunday.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2012, 08:28:19 PM by shnozzola »
“I wanna go ice fishing on Europa, and see if something swims up to the camera lens and licks it.”- Neil deGrasse Tyson