Author Topic: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god  (Read 5455 times)

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Offline Quesi

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This is a great 60 Minutes segment about a small group people who are paralyzed, and who are using their brains to type on computers, drive wheel chairs and do all sorts of amazing things. 

The first man interviewed has a cap with connections to his brain, while the last woman interviewed has an actual implant into her brain. 

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5228109n%20&tag=contentMain;contentBody

Amazing

Offline Traveler

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2012, 04:15:26 PM »
Very, very cool, and a brilliant testament to scientific achievement.

I can just see the religious response ... but see why god didn't heal amputees? Humans wouldn't have been inspired to solve the problem themselves if he'd stepped in. ;)
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Offline velkyn

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2012, 10:11:01 AM »
very cool.  as always poor gods can't get one up on puny humans  :)
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Offline kardula

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2012, 06:47:11 PM »
awesome....so how far off is my Iron Man suit?

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2012, 06:44:08 AM »
awesome....so how far off is my Iron Man suit?

All anyone's waiting for is the power supply.  We need arc reactors, and we need 'em now!

*grin!*
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Offline Lola32802

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2012, 01:31:47 AM »
How has science beaten God?  Can you answer this question without using strawman arguments?

Offline screwtape

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2012, 07:33:29 AM »
science does stuff.  god, not so much.
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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2012, 12:57:11 PM »
Welcome to the forum, Lola.

How has science beaten God?  Can you answer this question without using strawman arguments?

Who on this thread has used a strawman? People pray for healing all the time, but an unambiguously miraculous healing (an amputee completely regrowing a lost limb, to use the site's example) has never been documented in response to prayer.

The link in the OP is about paralysis victims using technology to at least partially overcome their condition. The researchers and technicians involved went to school for years and worked in their chosen fields even longer. They devoted a significant fraction of their lives bettering the lot of their fellow human beings. Some of them may have prayed, but they clearly did not expect prayer alone to accomplish this particular goal.

So here is one example where science has "beaten" god, in that this combination of technology and surgery has accomplished things that prayer has never done.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2012, 01:02:42 PM by wright »
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Offline jetson

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2012, 02:54:34 PM »
How has science beaten God?  Can you answer this question without using strawman arguments?

Science could care less about God - since God is a fictional character from ancient times.  But in the end, there are people who believe that God has actually healed human beings.  What God has never done though, is heal an amputee.  Science can help amputees improve their lives dramatically.

Science - 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
God - 0

Offline Emily

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2012, 12:00:15 PM »
Science - 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
God - 0

Hmmmm, I thought the number for science was much higher.
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Offline voodoo child

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2012, 07:16:50 PM »
  :?
How has science beaten God?  Can you answer this question without using strawman arguments?


Science has no agenda.
Science has no need to win you over.
Science is there when you need it.
What is so bad about that?
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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2012, 08:57:26 PM »
How has science beaten God?  Can you answer this question without using strawman arguments?

of course making gods out of mud and straw made for gods with clay feet (not a very permanent proof)

and later, when our gods were graven statues, they were metals beaten by smiths (in gods we rust)

.....but now with 3D printing technologies, beating is not so necessary
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Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #12 on: July 01, 2012, 10:26:11 AM »
This is a great 60 Minutes segment about a small group people who are paralyzed, and who are using their brains to type on computers, drive wheel chairs and do all sorts of amazing things. 

The first man interviewed has a cap with connections to his brain, while the last woman interviewed has an actual implant into her brain. 

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5228109n%20&tag=contentMain;contentBody

Amazing


How is this a "win" over God. If a God exists then that means he endowed us with the ability to learn. Thus it would be a win for god that that he gave us the abilities to come up with ideas like this.

Offline HAL

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #13 on: July 01, 2012, 10:47:24 AM »
If a God exists then that means he endowed us with the ability to learn.

Why didn't "he" just endow our bodies with the ability to regrow limbs like some other animals can?

Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2012, 11:01:32 AM »
If a God exists then that means he endowed us with the ability to learn.

Why didn't "he" just endow our bodies with the ability to regrow limbs like some other animals can?


Oh yes! Why didn't god put a 100 eyeballs on my forehead? Why didn't God give women 3 breasts?  As you can see your question pertains no actual refutation to the existence of a God.




Offline HAL

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2012, 11:07:20 AM »
Oh yes! Why didn't god put a 100 eyeballs on my forehead? Why didn't God give women 3 breasts? 

I didn't ask those questions.

Quote
As you can see your question pertains no actual refutation to the existence of a God.

I'm not trying to refute god. If god exists, why didn't it give the human body the ability to regrow limbs? Other animals can do that.

Quote
If a God exists then that means he endowed us with the ability to learn.

You said if it exists it gave us the ability to learn. OK, why not the ability to regrow limbs then? Why do we have to learn to do that when the ability is already given to other animals (if this deity exists)? We don't have to learn how to take a shit or pump our hearts.


Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2012, 11:21:43 AM »
Oh yes! Why didn't god put a 100 eyeballs on my forehead? Why didn't God give women 3 breasts? 

I didn't ask those questions.

Quote
As you can see your question pertains no actual refutation to the existence of a God.

I'm not trying to refute god. If god exists, why didn't it give the human body the ability to regrow limbs? Other animals can do that.

Quote
If a God exists then that means he endowed us with the ability to learn.

You said if it exists it gave us the ability to learn. OK, why not the ability to regrow limbs then? Why do we have to learn to do that when the ability is already given to other animals (if this deity exists)? We don't have to learn how to take a shit or pump our hearts.

You didn't ask them. But they are equally relevant. And So what if other animals can do it?  We have the best evolutionary advancement of any species. A considerably higher level of brain function

Offline HAL

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2012, 11:37:09 AM »
You didn't ask them. But they are equally relevant.

In your mind, but not mine.

Quote
And So what if other animals can do it? 

Assuming this deity exists you were referring to, it means the ability to regenerate limbs was given to some species. These species are lesser creations than the most important life creation that the deity made - humans. Why wasn't the ability to regenerate limbs given to humans?

Quote
We have the best evolutionary advancement of any species. A considerably higher level of brain function

Well, if we have the "best evolutionary advancement of any species" why can't we regenerate limbs? Or do you want to take back that statement?

Online wright

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2012, 02:33:16 PM »
We have the best evolutionary advancement of any species. A considerably higher level of brain function

Of any species? Really? There have been a lot of organisms on this planet since life got to the multicellular stage and differentiated to the point where there were differences we would categorize as "species".

True, our intelligence and ability to cooperate with each other has led to a level of success unprecedented in the fossil record as we know it. But it remains to be seen whether we can survive in the long term.

The dinosaurs, for example, were the dominant vertebrates for some 135 million years, and did quite well without our level of higher brain function. Humans have been around for perhaps a million. In the 200-plus years since we got industrialization rolling, we are pushing at the planet's capacity to sustain our civilization.

How is this a "win" over God. If a God exists then that means he endowed us with the ability to learn. Thus it would be a win for god that that he gave us the abilities to come up with ideas like this.

The researchers and technicians involved went to school for years and worked in their chosen fields even longer. They devoted a significant fraction of their lives bettering the lot of their fellow human beings. Some of them may have prayed, but they clearly did not expect prayer alone to accomplish this particular goal.

So here is one example where science has "beaten" god, in that this combination of technology and surgery has accomplished things that prayer has never done.
Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #19 on: July 01, 2012, 05:37:51 PM »
We have the best evolutionary advancement of any species.

Nope.  Argentine Lake Duck.

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Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #20 on: July 02, 2012, 01:39:20 AM »
You didn't ask them. But they are equally relevant.

In your mind, but not mine.

Quote
And So what if other animals can do it? 

Assuming this deity exists you were referring to, it means the ability to regenerate limbs was given to some species. These species are lesser creations than the most important life creation that the deity made - humans. Why wasn't the ability to regenerate limbs given to humans?

Quote
We have the best evolutionary advancement of any species. A considerably higher level of brain function

Well, if we have the "best evolutionary advancement of any species" why can't we regenerate limbs? Or do you want to take back that statement?


No. In your mind you are ignoring that aspect cause it invalidates your argument. Its completely relevant. Why didn't god put a 100 eyes balls on my forehead? Why did god only give women 3 breasts instead of 2? Why didn't God give me this or that? 

Offline Azdgari

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #21 on: July 02, 2012, 01:44:01 AM »
Oh, I know - randomness!
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Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #22 on: July 02, 2012, 01:52:54 AM »
We have the best evolutionary advancement of any species. A considerably higher level of brain function

Of any species? Really? There have been a lot of organisms on this planet since life got to the multicellular stage and differentiated to the point where there were differences we would categorize as "species".

True, our intelligence and ability to cooperate with each other has led to a level of success unprecedented in the fossil record as we know it. But it remains to be seen whether we can survive in the long term.

The dinosaurs, for example, were the dominant vertebrates for some 135 million years, and did quite well without our level of higher brain function. Humans have been around for perhaps a million. In the 200-plus years since we got industrialization rolling, we are pushing at the planet's capacity to sustain our civilization.

How is this a "win" over God. If a God exists then that means he endowed us with the ability to learn. Thus it would be a win for god that that he gave us the abilities to come up with ideas like this.

The researchers and technicians involved went to school for years and worked in their chosen fields even longer. They devoted a significant fraction of their lives bettering the lot of their fellow human beings. Some of them may have prayed, but they clearly did not expect prayer alone to accomplish this particular goal.

So here is one example where science has "beaten" god, in that this combination of technology and surgery has accomplished things that prayer has never done.


Complexity doesn't necessary mean longevity. Its  likely the inferior organism will  survive while the more complex will  die out. It doesn't change the fact  that the human brain is the best evolutionary advancement. 


Its not a example of science beaten God.  God would have given the humans the ability to  use science.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #23 on: July 02, 2012, 01:56:28 AM »
"Inferior" is only meaningful with respect to a normative metric against which something can be judged.  The same is true of "best".

Please state your metric.
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Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #24 on: July 02, 2012, 02:10:33 AM »
"Inferior" is only meaningful with respect to a normative metric against which something can be judged.  The same is true of "best".

Please state your metric.


Is it relevant?  The human brain  gives humans more purpose than other organisms.  As the saying goes. 'There's more to living than being alive'. Humans may die out before things like bacteria, but we will certainly achieve more than them.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #25 on: July 02, 2012, 02:16:34 AM »
It is relevant to an assertion that something is "better" or "worse" than something else.  A horse is better than a dog.  A dog is better than a horse.  Both of these statements are true, according to different metrics of judgment.  A horse is better for riding than a dog.  A dog is better for companionship in an apartment than a horse.  The standard of judgment being used makes all the difference, as you can see.

Agreed?
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Offline SwayzesGhost

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #26 on: July 02, 2012, 02:28:48 AM »
It is relevant to an assertion that something is "better" or "worse" than something else.  A horse is better than a dog.  A dog is better than a horse.  Both of these statements are true, according to different metrics of judgment.  A horse is better for riding than a dog.  A dog is better for companionship in an apartment than a horse.  The standard of judgment being used makes all the difference, as you can see.

Agreed?

I agree. But I think we are getting off-topic. Slightly.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #27 on: July 02, 2012, 02:50:11 AM »
Not at all.  The topic is necessarily invoked by any use of "best" or "inferior", or other similar words of judgment.  What is your metric?
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Offline HAL

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Re: 60 Minutes - Paralized and Amputees - science wins over god
« Reply #28 on: July 02, 2012, 07:03:44 AM »
No. In your mind you are ignoring that aspect cause it invalidates your argument. Its completely relevant. Why didn't god put a 100 eyes balls on my forehead? Why did god only give women 3 breasts instead of 2? Why didn't God give me this or that?

You are dodging my points. I asked no questions about eyeballs or breasts.

Let's try again -

Quote
Assuming this deity exists you were referring to, it means the ability to regenerate limbs was given to some species. These species are lesser creations than the most important life creation that the deity made - humans. Why wasn't the ability to regenerate limbs given to humans?

Quote
Well, if we have the "best evolutionary advancement of any species" why can't we regenerate limbs? Or do you want to take back that statement?

and this now -

SwayzesGhost -

Are you a Christian? I need to know because so far I am only assuming this. If not what religion do you follow?