Author Topic: The Avengers  (Read 1895 times)

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Offline Truth OT

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #58 on: May 16, 2012, 01:38:18 PM »
That's the problem with Superman. He makes every other superhero redundant. There isn't anything he can't do and the ridiculous idea that nobody will recognise him if he wears glasses is just absurd.

C'mon, the big blue boyscout isn't exactly wielding the Power Cosmic. He has a hugely exploitable weakness (his code), plus Kryponite readers him powerless. The Superman franchise could use a reboot sans the tights and cape IMHO.

Offline pianodwarf

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2012, 01:39:48 PM »
What I'd really like to see is a Sandman movie.  I know this has been an on-again, off-again thing for a while, and I can definitely understand why.  Doing a good screen translation of Sandman would be one heckuva challenge, and if the movie came out bad, a lot of people would be very upset (as opposed to most other bad comic book translations, where fans might be mildly disappointed, but shrug it off and perhaps wait for a reboot).  Sandman's fan base isn't exceptionally large, but they tend not to care about the comic in half-measures, and I'm sure Gaiman is well aware of that.
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Offline Alzael

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #60 on: May 16, 2012, 01:44:55 PM »

C'mon, the big blue boyscout isn't exactly wielding the Power Cosmic. He has a hugely exploitable weakness (his code), plus Kryponite readers him powerless. The Superman franchise could use a reboot sans the tights and cape IMHO.

The problem is that there actually isn't really anything that Superman can't do. It's more that he's essentially too incompetent to do them. That's the problem with the Superman comics. It's not his code that challenges him. It's that he apparently isn't competent enough to ever use his powers effectively. He could end almost any fight in less than a second with pretty much any character in the DCU (excluding the cosmic beings, and even then.....) without even having to hurt them much. He just doesn't because he seems to like massive superbrawls that cause lots of property damage and endanger lives.
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Offline kin hell

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #61 on: May 16, 2012, 01:45:11 PM »
graphic novel to movie

Watchmen



your thoughts?
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Offline pianodwarf

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #62 on: May 16, 2012, 01:46:38 PM »
That's the problem with Superman. He makes every other superhero redundant. There isn't anything he can't do and the ridiculous idea that nobody will recognise him if he wears glasses is just absurd.

C'mon, the big blue boyscout isn't exactly wielding the Power Cosmic. He has a hugely exploitable weakness (his code), plus Kryponite readers him powerless. The Superman franchise could use a reboot sans the tights and cape IMHO.

I said by the way baby what's your name
said I go by the name of lois lane
and you could be my boyfriend you surely can
just let me quit my boyfriend superman
i said he's a fairy i do suppose
flying through the air in pantyhose
he may be very sexy or even cute
but he looks like a sucker in a blue and red suit
i said you need man who's got finesse
and his whole name across his chest
he may be able to fly all through the night
but can he rock a party til the early light
he can't satisfy you with his little worm
but i can bust you out with my super sperm!

« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 01:48:13 PM by pianodwarf »
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Offline Truth OT

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #63 on: May 16, 2012, 01:51:29 PM »
So it appears we are all in agreement, the Flash sucks, the majority of DC's heroes tend to be a bit.........Godly, and Batman is worthy of the universe's eternal praise and worship, right?


Offline Frank

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #64 on: May 16, 2012, 01:54:20 PM »
Sorry to be the 1st dissenter, but after seeing the movie today, I fail to see what all the hype is about. It could have been called Iron Man 3 and if it was, it could well have been the 3rd best of the trilogy.
The plot was okay, not bad, but certainly nothing to write home about, and the climax in New York was strangely reminiscent of that of Transformers DOTM.
My advice is to reserve your tickets for The Dark Knight Rises coming June 29th.

That's a problem. The disparity in powers of the heroes is gigantic. Thor a god (how do you limit a gods powers?) If anyone could create a worldwide flood Thor could. To Cap America who is a bit stronger than the average guy. And then there is Black Widow whose power appears to be looking hot in a figure hugging suit like all female superheroes. Female superheroes always have generally weaker abilities than male superheroes.
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Offline Seppuku

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #65 on: May 16, 2012, 01:56:45 PM »
I've not actually read Sandman, but Neil Gaiman is kind of warming up to me. I tried getting into his writing through Americans Gods, the ideas were very good, I just didn't get along with the style of prose. My uncle on the other hand, massive Gaiman fan, mostly through his graphic novels. They did a movie version of his novel Stardust, which I was a bit iffy about seeing but actually wasn't a bad film. Also, nothing beats Robert De Niro in drag.

So it appears we are all in agreement, the Flash sucks, the majority of DC's heroes tend to be a bit.........Godly, and Batman is worthy of the universe's eternal praise and worship, right?



I'd raise a pint to that. I didn't like Superman anyway.



But whilst the topic is super heroes and a Joss Whedon film, Dr Horrible's Singalong blog is awesome and worth watching (if you haven't already) Plus you can't beat Nathan Fillion.

« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 02:07:17 PM by Seppuku »
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Offline velkyn

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #66 on: May 16, 2012, 02:23:57 PM »
graphic novel to movie
Watchmen
your thoughts?

movie's a bit more palatable than the novel, and yes, I know I'm a heretic.   :)

as for Bats being praiseworthy, he racks up a higher body count by his continued inaction than a lot of his villians do individually.  And yep, I'm looking for the vigilante to be a true vigilante, judge, jury and executioner if need be since Gotham's criminal justice system seems rather lax. ;)

supposedly Joss has a Dr. Horrible 2 in the works. 

I do wish they had gone with someone other than Black Widow in the Avengers, but to have anyone of power, Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, Photon, Scarlet Witch you almost need a movie just for them like they did with other single hero movies.  With Widow, she was convenient with Shield story line.
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Offline Truth OT

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #67 on: May 16, 2012, 02:28:33 PM »
To me, way too much (ALL) of our superhero movies have been Earth centric. So many more possibilities are out there if the setting was not limited to the Earth. Movies like Star Wars and Avatar were unbelievably successful and they were set in galaxies far far away and on a world called Pandora.

Why can't we have a movie entitled:
The Rise of Darkseid/Thanos (kinda the same guy to me) set on Apokolips during the peaceful reign of King Yuga Khan and Queen Heggra in a time just before the king's quest for the unknowable mystery of The Source rendered him into a ruler that would give rise to a dark seed. This movie could even have the inhabitants of Apokolips interacting with the inhabitants of the ancient Kryptonian civilization and other DC worlds like Aa.
This film would show Darkseid's roots, his treachery, his rise to prominence, and him coming into his full power and initiating his quest for the anti-life equation.

The sequel, called New Genesis would be from the perspective Darkseid, but chronical the life of the 2nd child sired by Darkseid, Orion. It would take us to New Genesis and delve into the conflict between Darkseid and the High Father in which Darkseid's was turned away and forces to continue his pursuit of the anti-life equation b focusing on a small world in a Galaxy known as the Milky Way. I would like for the Metron/Metatron and/or The Watchers to make some appearances in this film helping the audience make the connection between Krypton, Aa, and other world's whose offspring would play a part in the conclusions of this series..

In part 1 of The third film of this trilogy, called The Watchtower, we would begin by showing how Darkseid's forces were involved in the annililation of an ancient Martian civilization and how its lone surviver was found on the Earth millennia later. The unearthed Martian Manhunter would begin his quest to assemble to team to protect the Earth from the threat of Apokolips it knows is coming. Here we are introduced to Lex Luthor, Bruce Wayne, as well as Clark Kent. With the help of a lady by the name of Chloe Sullivan and her wonderous friend Diana, the Manhunter will help temporarily quell the tensions between Lex, Bruce, and Superman in time to form the Justice League in the wake of Darkseid's arrival.

In part 2 of The Watchtower, will have bring us to our conclusion. Darkseid will attack and dominate the Earth after elongated battles with the JL only to have Lex find out from the Metron about Orion. Just when all seems long, Orion shows up to save the Earth and Earth's heroes from Apokolips and the wrath of his father Darkseid who is on the very precipise (sp?) of getting what he needs to figure out the anti-life equation. An epic battle ensues and with the help of the last son of Krypton, Orion is able to defeat and seemingly destroy Darkseid once and for all.
The credits roll................
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 02:31:13 PM by Truth OT »

Online nogodsforme

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #68 on: May 16, 2012, 02:36:29 PM »
This thread has gone over the Comicon Nerd-agra Falls in a barrel of Darwin's monkeys at supersonic Bat-speed. But what did I expect with this pack 'o heathens?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline velkyn

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #69 on: May 16, 2012, 02:38:48 PM »
damn straight.  smart, nerdy, atheists, often goes together.  :)

and nice movie treatment TOT. My husband is a big New Gods fan and would indeed love that.
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Offline Truth OT

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #70 on: May 16, 2012, 02:42:17 PM »
This thread has gone over the Comicon Nerd-agra Falls in a barrel of Darwin's monkeys at supersonic Bat-speed. But what did I expect with this pack 'o heathens?

I warned Velkyn that she was making me put my fanfic hat on.

Online Azdgari

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #71 on: May 16, 2012, 02:54:54 PM »
Superman is a lost cause for me.  First of all, he's an alien.  What are the odds of aliens looking exactly like us and even having compatible dna?

Especially one with such a dramatically different practical physiology.  And of course, he's white, too.  So, point, for sure.

Secondly, he has every fricken power in the world.  The ONLY thing that makes him remotely interesting is kryptonite.  Without it, there is no risk, or drama.

I always found the most interesting Superman-drama to be what they did in the Justice League Unlimited cartoon series.  The Justice League, lead by Superman, had too much power.  Fighting baddies?  Not generally a problem.  PR, trust of the public?  Definitely a problem.  Trust of the government?  Major crisis of the series.  One of the major conflict of the middle of the series involved Superman's blindness to how his and the JL's power made everyone (legitimately) feel.  Especially given that in an alternate reality, the JL used their power to take over the world.  That is where Superman's power creates good drama, IMO.  Other than that...yeah, you're right.

Which is why an element that is not even found on earth the most common element in Metropolis?  Ridiculous.

Not quite so ridiculous.  The debris from Krypton's destruction carried both kryptonite and Superman's pod to Earth.  It makes sense that both would land in the same general area.  Then again, it makes no sense that the debris and pod could actually get to Earth in less than a couple of thousand years, but that's a different quibble.
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Offline flapdoodle64

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #72 on: May 16, 2012, 02:57:17 PM »

as for Bats being praiseworthy, he racks up a higher body count by his continued inaction than a lot of his villians do individually.  And yep, I'm looking for the vigilante to be a true vigilante, judge, jury and executioner if need be since Gotham's criminal justice system seems rather lax. ;)


Batman is a billionairre who spends billions on super high tech weapons and body armour that looks like S/M gear, then goes the ghetto to beat drug dealers into pulp.  He's a rich narcissist with a narcissistic need to punish.  He's played by Chris Bale as a rich douche with Asperger's Syndrome.  Every Batman film is ultimately a parody and cannot be otherwise. 

Offline velkyn

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #73 on: May 16, 2012, 03:10:14 PM »
along flapdoodle's argument: http://cracked.com/blog/6-ways-iron-man-objectivly-better-than-batman
 :)

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Offline Alzael

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #74 on: May 16, 2012, 03:15:58 PM »

as for Bats being praiseworthy, he racks up a higher body count by his continued inaction than a lot of his villians do individually.  And yep, I'm looking for the vigilante to be a true vigilante, judge, jury and executioner if need be since Gotham's criminal justice system seems rather lax. ;)


No kidding. The Joker has racked up bodycounts that are literally in the high thousands. Even the other villains are seen in the comics telling Joker stories to scare each other the same way kids do with scary stories around cmapfires. You would think that Batman would just drop him off a cliff. But no, he sticks to his idiotic "no-killing" policy. He's even saved the Joker from death on more than one occasion.

This isn't even going into all of the other mass-murderers among his Rogues Gallery. In some ways Batman is a bigger monster than his enemies. If only because of the way he places his own self-righteousness over the good of all of the other people in the world.

Which is actually something else about DC, in general. They tend to have this ridiculous "heroes don't kill rule" that the good guys are supposed to stick to. There are villains that have literally dropped atomic missiles on countries (successfully) and they aren't supposed to kill these guys?

The part that I actually take issue with is that they always portray it as a false dichotomy. Whenever they deal with the subject of superheroes killing, DC always portrays it as being a case of Boy scouts vs. the Punisher. You're either like Superman or Batman or are entirely anti-killing for any reason. Or you're a borderline psycho who kills every bad guy they see. There's never any middle ground. It's never just a case of "bring them in alive if possible, but lethal force if you have to".

Of course the real reason they don't kill the bad guy is so that they can use him again later and not have to keep making new threats.

along flapdoodle's argument: http://cracked.com/blog/6-ways-iron-man-objectivly-better-than-batman
 :)

(computer is taking a fit, now it won't cut and past urls)

I was just about to link that actually, damn you Velks.
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Offline Truth OT

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #75 on: May 16, 2012, 04:02:17 PM »

as for Bats being praiseworthy, he racks up a higher body count by his continued inaction than a lot of his villians do individually.  And yep, I'm looking for the vigilante to be a true vigilante, judge, jury and executioner if need be since Gotham's criminal justice system seems rather lax. ;)



This isn't even going into all of the other mass-murderers among his Rogues Gallery. In some ways Batman is a bigger monster than his enemies. If only because of the way he places his own self-righteousness over the good of all of the other people in the world.

Which is actually something else about DC, in general. They tend to have this ridiculous "heroes don't kill rule" that the good guys are supposed to stick to. There are villains that have literally dropped atomic missiles on countries (successfully) and they aren't supposed to kill these guys?

WHat Velkyn said about being judge, jury, and executioner hits the nail on the head. In the DC universe (parts of it), the heros go all LeBron James and don't finish the job. Instead, they pass the buck to D Wade, I mean the "proper authorities" in order to decide the fate of the wrongdoers who end up in Arkhum, Bell Reeve (sp?), and eventually back on the streets. For once it would be nice to see the big blue boyscout go all Redhood and execute somebody who's proven to be incouragably horrible.

What Alzael describes as a "heroes don't kill rule" is actually more accurately depicted as a heroes do all the dirty work only to turn the supervillians over to the justice system because the superheroes don't have the right to FULLY take justice into their own hands rule.

Offline kin hell

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #76 on: May 16, 2012, 09:21:56 PM »
graphic novel to movie
Watchmen
your thoughts?

movie's a bit more palatable than the novel, and yes, I know I'm a heretic.   :)

yes, the serfs are collecting the wood for your pyre as we speak. Each to his/her own, but I truly don't understand that (anyway side issue)

 the reason I raise Watchmen in what has become a DC v Marvel thread is the veracity of the export to film. 

Apart from the obvious change of (no spoilers ) "everything" I thought the film really acted as homage to the source material.


 the recent posts re: the no kill rule

I loved how Batman accidentally killed death in Judgement on Gotham,



and stands around lamenting and wallowing in remorse/guilt



at least Dredd fulfils the stated desire for "executioner" realities (although not technically a superhero I guess)
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Offline velkyn

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #77 on: May 17, 2012, 08:26:13 AM »
side note: I think it's Belle Reve,  beautiful dream or something close.

interesting comic with an undead(?) Judge, Kin.  I actually rather liked the Judge Dredd movie, Stallone at least had the jawline to plop that helmet onto. 

I don't care for Alan Moore at all.  I don't read comics to watch heroes be given extreme feet of clay to apparently satisfy a writer's inferiority complex.   My personal taste.
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Offline Traveler

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #78 on: May 17, 2012, 08:55:31 AM »
...I actually rather liked the Judge Dredd movie, Stallone at least had the jawline to plop that helmet onto...

I thought Judge Dredd was a fabulous romp.  ;D Silly, yes, but loads of fun and over the years I've seen it at least two or three times.
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Offline screwtape

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #79 on: May 17, 2012, 08:57:28 AM »
graphic novel to movie

Watchmen



your thoughts?

hated it.  Should have used the - was it smashing pumpkins? - modern music they used in the trailer. Not the worn out 60s and 70s cliche.

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Offline screwtape

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #80 on: May 17, 2012, 09:05:08 AM »
interesting comic with an undead(?) Judge, Kin. 

brilliant comic with art by they great simon bisley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman/Judge_Dredd:_Judgment_on_Gotham

he's frank frazetta on steriods.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #81 on: May 17, 2012, 09:16:11 AM »
brilliant comic with art by they great simon bisley
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman/Judge_Dredd:_Judgment_on_Gotham

he's frank frazetta on steriods.

that looks like a lot of fun.   :)

and I will admit that I have enjoyed a lot of Stallone's rather silly SF films, including Demolition Man.
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Offline Traveler

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #82 on: May 17, 2012, 09:24:28 AM »
I'm headed out now to see The Avengers again. YAY!!!  ;D
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Offline flapdoodle64

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #83 on: May 17, 2012, 03:12:52 PM »
graphic novel to movie

Watchmen



your thoughts?

hated it.  Should have used the - was it smashing pumpkins? - modern music they used in the trailer. Not the worn out 60s and 70s cliche.

I've read the Watchmen GN twice, I think it is a major novel of any genre and a true classic. 

I thought it was so powerful, I didn't want to see a movie made of it, particularly a garish ham-handed hack like Snyder. 

Truley, the novel is so dense, the only way to do it justice on celluloid would be with a trilogy or a TV miniseries. 

Anyway, the novel was so perfect, I didn't want to see it dumbed down and tarted up, so I've never seen the movie.  I have no regrets about that. 

Offline screwtape

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #84 on: May 17, 2012, 05:26:21 PM »
Jackie Earl Haley was a pretty boss Rorschach.  That is about all.
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Offline kin hell

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #85 on: May 18, 2012, 01:45:49 AM »
Re: Judgement on Gotham

thanks for the wiki link screwt I just learned that there are 3 other crossover (Dredd/Batman) and I cannot remember if I've read any of them.
Joy oh joy treasure hunt, as JoG is one of my favourites.

re: Watchmen

I agree flapd  it is a major novel and I think it has won awards in recognition.

I have to admit I am generally an open visual antenna for non-plot based movies. I can suspend disbelief with the best of them for a good escapist jaunt. This also encompasses the suspension of parallel critiquing the movie while watching.

So my first experience of Watchmen/movie was antenna on, internal dialogue off, and I really did enjoy the visuals, but came away somewhat unsatisfied with the overall delivery.
I think the recreation of visuals was very very well done, and given the visual nature of a graphic novel this was a major part of the homage I am talking about.

Given the density of the GN source material yes, I too would've liked it to have been framed over two movies, and I found it frustrating that so much subtle interplay  (not to mention sections) had to be lost to fit this time limit.'

So I put it aside as flawed and only revisited it when I got a highres version that I could project for full immersion at home.

I liked it significantly more in the second viewing, and came to the conclusion that given the constraints (as mentioned) it held up pretty well.

And yes screwt Haley was excellent as Rorschach, but I don't think any of the mains did a bad job, in some ways they too were constrained by the limitations of their character's source material.

 GN's (in general) too, have a vastly different human interface, where there are all the hours/days we might wish to take in dwelling on each panel, each subtlety, and it is only inevitable that the movie cannot give that depth of field and so suffers by comparison.

velky  yeah screwt has posted the link I should've provided, it's well worth tracking down a copy of JoG

elsewhere, agreed personal taste is personal. I love some of some of AM's work. The Killing Joke  foe example is up there with JoG on my list.

 
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline velkyn

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Re: The Avengers
« Reply #86 on: May 18, 2012, 08:23:10 AM »
what do you all who like the Watchmen find so special about that book?  I personally found nothing that interesting about it and am wondering what I might be missing.
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