Author Topic: The OTF (for JST):  (Read 4803 times)

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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #87 on: May 14, 2012, 09:51:52 PM »
Quote from: Quesi
Could you step outside and look at your beliefs?

Yes, but I can seldomly get to this point here.  There are just so many assumptions about my beliefs that seldomly do we get to what I actually believe.  When I try to correct them and say, "no this is what I believe" then I get hit with "where is your support"?  The support for my beliefs comes from the Bible.  I can't show them what the Bible says is true if we can't agree on what the Bible says.

It seems we are perhaps in agreement on the other thread that the Bible teaches Satan is the ruler of this world and now I am trying to provide evidence that would support this belief.  But it's so seldom I can get to that point.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

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Offline jdawg70

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #88 on: May 14, 2012, 09:52:59 PM »
I mean when I read the Bible and it's description of the Last Days and I look around I perceive that it's description is becoming more and more accurate.  How can I deny it?

When did you have a rational basis of evidence for which to conclude it?

That depends on what is your definition of "rational basis".

Quote
Asking you to support your beliefs based on evidence isn't a satisfactory test of your beliefs?

Support for my beliefs comes from the Bible and this is where I keep getting brow beat.  My claim is "this is what the Bible says".  Providing evidence for the claims the Bible makes is a seperate matter.

I have a hard time understanding how that is a 'separate matter'.  Are you and everyone else arguing over any aspect of reality or not?  If not, well, yeah, then I can see that as a separate matter.  If I were to argue the superiority of the Shi'ar Empire's technology over the Skrulls, then I'm not really under any requirement to provide real world evidence for the claims of The Silver Surfer issue #75.  I would simply need to provide evidence within the construct of the narratives within the Marvel mythos and that would be that.

If we aren't trying to relate anything the bible says to any aspect of reality, but just to the narrative of the biblical mythos, then yes citing the record of the biblical mythos is all you really need to do.  But if at some point the argument crosses over the reality boundary, then you will need to start providing real world evidence for the applicable claims.  If the argument is strictly 'does hell exist in the bible', then yeah, citing scripture becomes appropriate.  But if the argument is 'does hell exist in reality', you've got to do more than say 'this here bible says it's real'.  You would have to go further and provide evidence for the bible's claim.
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Offline Omen

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #89 on: May 14, 2012, 09:55:21 PM »
that seldomly do we get to what I actually believe.  When I try to correct them and say, "no this is what I believe" then I get hit with "where is your support"?  The support for my beliefs comes from the Bible.

The bible is vague, contradictory, and nebulous; your inability to reach a conclusive basis is symptomatic of that.

However, no one gives a shit of what you believe, they only care about why.

Quote
It seems we are perhaps in agreement on the other thread that the Bible teaches Satan is the ruler of this world and now I am trying to provide evidence that would support this belief.  But it's so seldom I can get to that point.

Several people disagreed with you and you didn't bother to respond to them.
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Offline kin hell

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #90 on: May 14, 2012, 09:55:45 PM »
amazing the change 18 seconds make,

but even your

Quote
This is good advice though.

doesn't address my post in any real way.

If you were to even slightly perceive any truth in my description of the emotional investment prison I believe your thoughts to be held by, then you have to realise just how much you will not want to take on board what I have said.

You will emotionally shy from it, while paying it lipservice.

You will not adopt a stringent methodological application of such appraisal, you will instead acquiese to some sort of "feelings" that "you're OK as it is".

No I really do mean it.  It's just hard to be nice when you're constantly being provoked.  I apologize.
....accepted

Meanwhile it does go to show that you are only human, and so, like all of us "prone to emotions".
You actually reinforce my "emotional investment" scenario, by showing that you are a passionate human subject to emotional response.

So again I say, the single most powerful "emotional response" is fight or flight.

Questioning emotional investment, will (as it has unmistakably done with you here and now) trigger that response.


At any rate, I do do this.  Sometimes I start feeling doubt, but then when I stop and actually meditate on the things I've read and the things I've seen then the doubt is removed.  It just doesn't work for me the other way around. 

So the key to this is the fact that you have doubts.

What doubts?
What real "need" did you become aware was not being fulfilled by your belief set?
What did not make sense to you?
What about your belief set was failing rational appraisal?

And with all due respect, it is kinda obvious that the  "doubt is removed" outcome you describe (at least from a spectators viewpoint) should be recognised as
a re-immersion in the emotional investment waters.

I bet that the first thing you experience when finding doubt removed, is a real emotional relaxation and pleasure syndrome, at being back in touchy/feely with your beliefs?

Completely understandable and predictable psychological reward system for re-instating the status quo emotional investment.

And thus by renouncing doubt, then any awareness of inconsistency illogic bizarreness or downright superstitious silliness can all be instantly forgotten for a while while you bask in the illusory surety of the lying pleasure reward.

It's hard and cruel and brutal being totally honest with oneself, and deliberately removing emotionally vested blindfolds to see the truth about what one chooses to "feel".


I mean when I read the Bible and it's description of the Last Days and I look around I perceive that it's description is becoming more and more accurate.  How can I deny it?


Mate that has to be one of the least credible emotional readings of reality upon which to base your entire life philosophy.


http://www.religioustolerance.org/end_wrl2.htm

End of Days has already occurred at least 46 times, didn't it happen twice in one year last year? ( I could be wrong, and I cannot be bothered looking it up as it is only a rhetorical point)

The essence of the winning game play that is "the end of days belief", is that it can never be disproved.
It is always just around the corner for the whole of your life, then one day you are dead, and it doesn't matter anymore.

You automatically get to play a card that by its definition, cannot be trumped.
It is a very very baseless and manipulative "proof" of  "evidence" supporting your emotional investment, that can never be reputed.

And doesn't your emotional investment just love that?

Can you not see that while you are pushed into finding positions such as these to shore up you diminishing belief, then you are actively acquiescing to the emotional requirement, while carefully retiring to the corner where rational appraisal cannot get at your "feelings"?

"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #91 on: May 14, 2012, 09:56:45 PM »
Quote from: alzael
What you are being asked to do is prove why your version of "This is what the Bible says" is anymore valid than another persons version of "This is what the bible says".

But much of the time I not allowed to use "my version".  First I have to prove that "my version" is possible within the context of the Bible.  As I have tried to do on the other thread.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Alzael

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #92 on: May 14, 2012, 09:59:22 PM »
The support for my beliefs comes from the Bible.  I can't show them what the Bible says is true if we can't agree on what the Bible says.

Then why do you always dodge or go non-responsive everytime someone asks you how you know what the bible says is really what the bible says? How can we agree on what it says if you stonewall everytime you're questioned on why you think it says that?

Now you can quit playing the martyr anytime.

Quote from: alzael
What you are being asked to do is prove why your version of "This is what the Bible says" is anymore valid than another persons version of "This is what the bible says".

But much of the time I not allowed to use "my version".  First I have to prove that "my version" is possible within the context of the Bible.  As I have tried to do on the other thread.

That's what I just said. You are being asked to prove that your version has any validity. On the other thread you didn't do that. You just said that it did. You did nothing to show it.
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Offline Omen

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #93 on: May 14, 2012, 10:01:57 PM »
Quote from: alzael
What you are being asked to do is prove why your version of "This is what the Bible says" is anymore valid than another persons version of "This is what the bible says".

But much of the time I not allowed to use "my version".  First I have to prove that "my version" is possible within the context of the Bible.  As I have tried to do on the other thread.

Not possible, correct.  Possible allows the inverse to be true or some other conclusion.  You can't then claim that other people misunderstand what you can't demonstrate to be true objectively.

You have frequently and arrogantly claimed that people 'misunderstand' the bible, but you've declared this based on nothing more than your own specious assumptions.  You are not an authority to anyone else, nor can you declare yourself to be one.  You have to actively make the effort you're obviously not willing to engage in.
 
Just like you're not willing to provide the evidence that your beliefs are true and valid.  You respond with open hostility, visibly threatened by even the notion that you're going to have to exert effort to provide evidence supporting your claims, you demonize me in response, blame the community as a whole as you dismiss everyone here out of hand, and do everything to excuse yourself from any/all responsibility.

Why is it that you want a one sided conversation where you don't have to be responsible for anything?
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Offline Alzael

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #94 on: May 14, 2012, 10:09:19 PM »
Jst, the dodging and avoidance has gone on long enough and, quite frankly, I'm more than a little tired of dealing with it.

No more baseless claims, no more dodges, no more stonewalling, changing the subject, or switching threads. You WILL start actually responding and properly engagin this forum. In reple #84 I gave you an instruction as a mod which you also ignored. So we'll start with that.

You base your belief on biblical scripture. So where is your evidence that the scripture is telling the truth?

Your next response will be an answer to that question, with your evidence provided.
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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #95 on: May 14, 2012, 10:16:05 PM »
What doubts?
What real "need" did you become aware was not being fulfilled by your belief set?
What did not make sense to you?
What about your belief set was failing rational appraisal?

Well see that's the problem.  There are no specific doubts.  Just sometimes it's an overall feeling that it's all a great bit conspiracy, first Jehovah's Witnesses, and secondly the Bible.  But when I try to define a specific doubt rationally I come up empty handed.  So I conclude my doubt is unfounded.  I don't think this doubt could be removed short of God appearing in front of me.  And yes things do feel better afterward.

Quote
End of Days has already occurred at least 46 times, didn't it happen twice in one year last year? ( I could be wrong, and I cannot be bothered looking it up as it is only a rhetorical point)

I am not speaking of the "End Day".  I'm not convinced it will come in my day.  And while the signs, wars, famines, disease, disasters, have always occured and were occuring when people have predicted the end.  However, the signs just keep getting worse and worse.  Starting with World War I, the Great War it was called, we had our first Word War.  This was soon followed by another World War.  Next came the Cold war where we faced nuclear destruction and now it's terrorism that can touch any of us anywhere at anytime.  And there are wars going on all around the globe.  It's just gone from bad to worse.  I don't know how bad it will actually get before it hits bottom but it seems we are heading toward the bottom.

And what about famine and disease?  Even in the face of modern science these things continue to grow worse, at least as far as I am aware.

The preaching of the "Good News" now spans the globe.

More and more false Christs and false prophets have arisen.  This was prophesied to occur also.

I can't find any thing about the sings of the last days that are not becoming more fully fulfilled as time goes on.

People are ruining the earth.  This prophesy could not have been true until modern times.

So how can I just ignore this?

Maybe things still have a long way to go before we actually hit the Last Days.  But it seems we are unerringly heading in the direction.


« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 10:21:49 PM by Jstwebbrowsing »
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #96 on: May 14, 2012, 10:17:25 PM »
Why can't I just have a pleasant conversation with kin hell and Quesi?
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #97 on: May 14, 2012, 10:18:55 PM »
Quote
Then perhaps you should actually say which of the claims you felt he didn't support and why.

I did and he did.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Tinyal

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #98 on: May 14, 2012, 10:19:14 PM »
Even though I am quite sure it's a wasted effort, I need 2-4 days to fully and accurately support my statements - the reason is beginning tomorrow (and ending sunday), I am involved (as I have been for 10 years, I am one of the orginal 6 founders) in promoting , organizing, & troubleshooting the Joshua Tree Music Festival we do here in town.
It's a fairly small festival as those go - but 10k people here (in a town with less than 8k total population) is a lot of work.  We have hundreds of volunteers, dozens of bands, lazers, kids activities, etc.  We always put it on a week or 2 after Coachella, and get a bit of 'overflow' from them.
So, I'll be working 9 hrs at my regular job, then 5-8 hrs every night till friday - then 12-14 hrs sat and sunday.  Might take me as long as monday to do so.
But I will.

Sorry about the delay, I take this very seriously and (again, I doubt it's worth it to JST, he won't even bother to read what I put up) it will be substantially longer than just a paragraph or two.

My apologies for the delay.
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Offline Alzael

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #99 on: May 14, 2012, 10:30:33 PM »
Why can't I just have a pleasant conversation with kin hell and Quesi?

I don't know. Why didn't you stick to the Shelter. That's what it was for. You were the one who came to sit at the Big Boys table. Nobody forced you to. But you're here and just like everyone else you have to support your own claims if you're called on them. If you want to go one-on-one we have a debate section for that. You can drag one of them in there and discuss back and forth if you want.

Jst, you are not special. You do not get to just make things up and use them to support your points without justifying them. You tried to claim a double standard on our part but you're the one who's trying to use one. You're trying to pretend as though you don't have to live up to the same expectations on this forum that everyone else does. Well it does not work that way.
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Online JeffPT

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #100 on: May 14, 2012, 10:32:20 PM »
Well see that's the problem.  There are no specific doubts.  Just sometimes it's an overall feeling that it's all a great bit conspiracy, first Jehovah's Witnesses, and secondly the Bible.  But when I try to define a specific doubt rationally I come up empty handed.

Here's a specific one you can doubt...  I could give you hundreds, but let's start here.

The bible says Jesus died and rose from the dead 3 days later.  This is a specific doubt that you can come to rationally.  Why can we doubt this using our rational mind?  Because our brains know that people never rise from the dead 3 days after they die.  We also realize that there are no contemporary historians who report it.  There are no first hand, eyewitness accounts to it happening.  All we have is a really old book that says it happened; nothing more.  We don't have the tomb.  We don't have a body.  Nothing.   
 
So I conclude my doubt is unfounded.  I don't think this doubt could be removed short of God appearing in front of me.  And yes things do feel better afterward.

Using the one I provided for you, please tell me what process your mind goes through to make the leap from "I'm doubting the resurrection of Jesus" to "My doubt is unfounded".  If nothing else, it is an interesting experiment to try and understand how your mind takes you from point A to point B here, because I just don't see it. 

Whenever events that are purported to occur in our best interest are as numerous as the events that will just as soon kill us, then intent is hard, if not impossible to assert. NDT

Offline kin hell

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #101 on: May 14, 2012, 10:32:42 PM »
Why can't I just have a pleasant conversation with kin hell and Quesi?

because I am judged too irascible to be allowed into The Shelter by some unnamed spoolers who will remain unnamed but not forgotten  ;)

And be warned Jst, that I am probably one of the least tolerant to b/s atheists here, I am not Mr Niceguy, but I am Mr Straightforward and you will get a completely straightforward response from me predicated by your honesty.

I am not saying you are dishonest, I've come in late and have experienced no direct personal evidence to that, but reading the posts of many here whom I've known for a long time, I have to say that I'd be prepared to suspect that you haven't always been as accurate as you should have been.


But most of all Jst you cannot have any conversation with me until you fulfil the requirements of this post

Jst, the dodging and avoidance has gone on long enough and, quite frankly, I'm more than a little tired of dealing with it.

No more baseless claims, no more dodges, no more stonewalling, changing the subject, or switching threads. You WILL start actually responding and properly engagin this forum. In reple #84 I gave you an instruction as a mod which you also ignored. So we'll start with that.

You base your belief on biblical scripture. So where is your evidence that the scripture is telling the truth?

Your next response will be an answer to that question, with your evidence provided.



Deal with that first, and then I'll continue.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2012, 10:36:35 PM by kin hell »
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

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Offline Alzael

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #102 on: May 14, 2012, 10:34:35 PM »
Jst, I told you specifically that your next post was to be a valid response to my question. I can see that you ignored that. So let me explain something to you.

There are two ways this can go. The easy way is that you start responding as instructed by the moderator and cease your dodging and whining and actually start trying to be a productive member of this forum.

The other way is that you will be put on moderated status. In which case a mod will apporve every post you make before it will appear on the forum. At that point all of your posts will be required to first actually deal with these issues before you can post anything else.

The choice is yours at this point.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #103 on: May 14, 2012, 10:36:15 PM »
Are you referring to the other thread?
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #104 on: May 14, 2012, 10:39:24 PM »
You know what?  Actually nevermind.  I've recieved an invitation to a different forum where I'm told things are more civil.  I am going there.

Goodbye to you all.

Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline kin hell

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #105 on: May 14, 2012, 10:44:50 PM »
....pathetic

"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

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Offline Alzael

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #106 on: May 14, 2012, 10:55:02 PM »
So a theist that spends his entire time dodging and avoiding providing evidence for his claims pulls up and leaves at the exact moment he's informed that he can no longer dodge and avoid providing evidence.

That's certainly something I never could have seen coming.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
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Offline kin hell

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #107 on: May 14, 2012, 10:58:45 PM »
So a theist that spends his entire time dodging and avoiding providing evidence for his claims pulls up and leaves at the exact moment he's informed that he can no longer dodge and avoid providing evidence.

That's certainly something I never could have seen coming.

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

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Offline Tinyal

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #108 on: May 14, 2012, 11:16:59 PM »
You know what?  Actually nevermind.  I've recieved an invitation to a different forum where I'm told things are more civil.  I am going there.

Goodbye to you all.

What a tool!! Here I am, trying to plan a 3-4 hr block of time to do a complete report, during a period I'll be working 12-14 hrs a day, just based on his request - and he bails (probably to IG)....

Waste.  Am not going to put in the effort at this point.  If he stays, and after the music festival, I'll start coalating research & reports.

Not gonna worry about it at this point.
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Offline kin hell

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #109 on: May 14, 2012, 11:20:43 PM »
Even though I am quite sure it's a wasted effort, I need 2-4 days to fully and accurately support my statements - the reason is beginning tomorrow (and ending sunday), I am involved (as I have been for 10 years, I am one of the orginal 6 founders) in promoting , organizing, & troubleshooting the Joshua Tree Music Festival we do here in town.
It's a fairly small festival as those go - but 10k people here (in a town with less than 8k total population) is a lot of work.  We have hundreds of volunteers, dozens of bands, lazers, kids activities, etc.  We always put it on a week or 2 after Coachella, and get a bit of 'overflow' from them.
So, I'll be working 9 hrs at my regular job, then 5-8 hrs every night till friday - then 12-14 hrs sat and sunday.  Might take me as long as monday to do so.
But I will.

Sorry about the delay, I take this very seriously and (again, I doubt it's worth it to JST, he won't even bother to read what I put up) it will be substantially longer than just a paragraph or two.

My apologies for the delay.

nya nya nah na nah


been there done that

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 ;)

break a leg mate
"...but on a lighter note, demons were driven from a pig today in Gloucester."  Bill Bailey

all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #110 on: May 15, 2012, 12:19:01 AM »
Jehovah Witness

"The negro race is supposed to be descended from Ham, whose special degradation is mentioned in Gen. 9:22, 25. (From: Zion's Watch Tower, August 1, 1898, p. 230)

http://voices.yahoo.com/racism-jehovah-witness-watchtower-104975.html
It did not just work on the Africans,,,these ediccts also were used to extinguish,Indians,Chinese,Japanese,Mexicans.....the list is long...those who the church exploited,,,,very long
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline 12 Monkeys

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #111 on: May 15, 2012, 12:21:53 AM »
What doubts?
What real "need" did you become aware was not being fulfilled by your belief set?
What did not make sense to you?
What about your belief set was failing rational appraisal?

Well see that's the problem.  There are no specific doubts.  Just sometimes it's an overall feeling that it's all a great bit conspiracy, first Jehovah's Witnesses, and secondly the Bible.  But when I try to define a specific doubt rationally I come up empty handed.  So I conclude my doubt is unfounded.  I don't think this doubt could be removed short of God appearing in front of me.  And yes things do feel better afterward.

Quote
End of Days has already occurred at least 46 times, didn't it happen twice in one year last year? ( I could be wrong, and I cannot be bothered looking it up as it is only a rhetorical point)

I am not speaking of the "End Day".  I'm not convinced it will come in my day.  And while the signs, wars, famines, disease, disasters, have always occured and were occuring when people have predicted the end.  However, the signs just keep getting worse and worse.  Starting with World War I, the Great War it was called, we had our first Word War.  This was soon followed by another World War.  Next came the Cold war where we faced nuclear destruction and now it's terrorism that can touch any of us anywhere at anytime.  And there are wars going on all around the globe.  It's just gone from bad to worse.  I don't know how bad it will actually get before it hits bottom but it seems we are heading toward the bottom.

And what about famine and disease?  Even in the face of modern science these things continue to grow worse, at least as far as I am aware.

The preaching of the "Good News" now spans the globe.

More and more false Christs and false prophets have arisen.  This was prophesied to occur also.

I can't find any thing about the sings of the last days that are not becoming more fully fulfilled as time goes on.

People are ruining the earth.  This prophesy could not have been true until modern times.

So how can I just ignore this?

Maybe things still have a long way to go before we actually hit the Last Days.  But it seems we are unerringly heading in the direction.
The Jews think Jesus was a false prophet....thats why they are still Jews,and not Christians
There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Offline gonegolfing

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #112 on: May 15, 2012, 07:09:02 AM »
You know what?  Actually nevermind. I've recieved an invitation to a different forum where I'm told things are more civil.  I am going there.

Goodbye to you all.


Yes because your just so important !

Have a nice life Einstein  &)


Grimm , since this is your thread and you addressed JST specifically, what are your thoughts on what has just happened here ?
"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

Offline HAL

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #113 on: May 15, 2012, 07:14:29 AM »
I've recieved an invitation to a different forum where I'm told things are more civil.  I am going there.

Did you ask them to back up that claim? Oh nevermind.

Offline velkyn

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #114 on: May 15, 2012, 09:54:33 AM »
I think the Christian belief is that doing anything harmful to your own body is a sin.  What about those that have disabilities?  "God remembers that we are only dust".

I don't wanna debate.  I'm just stating what I think are the Christian beliefs.  Do with them what you will.

aka "I don't want to be shown I'm an idiot who doesn't know his own bible and makes shit up". 

This is okay but calling someone a child is not?  See there's that double standard.

It's nice to see that you left out the part of my post that showed how your claim was false, which is right here: http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,22621.msg505931.html#msg505931

You are indeed an idiot if you think you can get away with such nonsense without being called on your claims.  There is a point where your own actions have demonstrated a willful inablity to take responsiblity for what you have claimed and think that no one will notice.  This shows a certain lack of intelligence aka being an idiot.   I do try to avoid making a personal observation, but when the facts support it, I will.  Sometimes there is no good reason to be polite especially when the theist shows no interest in being honest.

Run to the other forum, Jst.  I'm sure that IGI will be more to your liking.  &) It will make your claims no more true. 
"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

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Offline Omen

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Re: The OTF (for JST):
« Reply #115 on: May 15, 2012, 10:24:58 AM »
Jehovah Witness

"The negro race is supposed to be descended from Ham, whose special degradation is mentioned in Gen. 9:22, 25. (From: Zion's Watch Tower, August 1, 1898, p. 230)

http://voices.yahoo.com/racism-jehovah-witness-watchtower-104975.html
It did not just work on the Africans,,,these ediccts also were used to extinguish,Indians,Chinese,Japanese,Mexicans.....the list is long...those who the church exploited,,,,very long

I found some other watch tower material published in the 1920s claiming that a black child who turned to god slowly turned 'white' as he became more pure.
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me