Author Topic: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?  (Read 2926 times)

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Offline Dynamic

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What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« on: May 10, 2012, 05:41:15 PM »
Just wondering what other people have. I plan on compiling a large list and sending it to every Christian I know. Feel free to post your arguments. :3
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

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Offline Alzael

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2012, 05:50:22 PM »
There's only one argument you need.

There is absolutely no evidence for its claims. Everything else is just a variant on this.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2012, 05:51:57 PM by Alzael »
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Offline eye over you

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2012, 05:52:43 PM »
   Geez, all you have to do is go read through the endless threads from the past on this sight to find more than you will ever need. ;)
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Offline Dynamic

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2012, 05:54:21 PM »
There's only one argument you need.

There is absolutely no evidence for its claims. Everything else is just a variant on this.

Ah, yes. However, all the Christians I know are ignorant. I say to them there is no evidence at all

But they say there is.

Here is a few things they say in response:
- 75% of the Earths rock is Sedimentary
- The bible said it, so it MUST be true!
- It is historically accurate. Ex: "And Israel became a nation"
- If it isn't true, than you really think we came from apes?


Welcome to my frustrated world where I am a lone atheist surrounded by Christians. Ignorant Christians.

   Geez, all you have to do is go read through the endless threads from the past on this sight to find more than you will ever need. ;)

Been doing that, but it would be easier instead of a massive list of links to keep it to one thread.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

If you want to talk through skype, message me.

Offline Alzael

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2012, 06:04:59 PM »
There's only one argument you need.

There is absolutely no evidence for its claims. Everything else is just a variant on this.

Ah, yes. However, all the Christians I know are ignorant. I say to them there is no evidence at all

But they say there is.

Here is a few things they say in response:
- 75% of the Earths rock is Sedimentary
- The bible said it, so it MUST be true!
- It is historically accurate. Ex: "And Israel became a nation"
- If it isn't true, than you really think we came from apes?


Welcome to my frustrated world where I am a lone atheist surrounded by Christians. Ignorant Christians.


Then you don't need arguments. You need a crowbar. No argument can overcome willful stupidity. But the  crowbar is mighty.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
Spartan Reply: If.

Offline Dynamic

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2012, 06:07:12 PM »
There's only one argument you need.

There is absolutely no evidence for its claims. Everything else is just a variant on this.

Ah, yes. However, all the Christians I know are ignorant. I say to them there is no evidence at all

But they say there is.

Here is a few things they say in response:
- 75% of the Earths rock is Sedimentary
- The bible said it, so it MUST be true!
- It is historically accurate. Ex: "And Israel became a nation"
- If it isn't true, than you really think we came from apes?


Welcome to my frustrated world where I am a lone atheist surrounded by Christians. Ignorant Christians.


Then you don't need arguments. You need a crowbar. No argument can overcome willful stupidity. But the  crowbar is mighty.

I live in the southern border with the north. I think a shotgun would be easier to find.

But I do wonder, not trying to be a theist here, but:
Why IS most of the rocks sedimentary? And how did the bible know Israel would become a nation?
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

If you want to talk through skype, message me.

Offline wright

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2012, 06:25:57 PM »
Welcome to my frustrated world where I am a lone atheist surrounded by Christians. Ignorant Christians.

If it's any consolation (probably very little), it's our frustrated world too...  ;)

Having said that, one of the first arguments against the validity of Christianity being the One True Faith is that there are so many other religions. How sensible is that, with the One True God backing it up?

I live in the southern border with the north. I think a shotgun would be easier to find.


But I do wonder, not trying to be a theist here, but:
Why IS most of the rocks sedimentary?

Most of the rocks on / in the Earth would be igneous (we have at least one geologist here; I invite her correction if I'm wrong), so unless your "friends" are referring to a specific formation, they're wrong. Sedimentary rock is formed by processes at / near the Earth's surface, and makes up a very small part of the planet's composition (about 8% of the crust, according to this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedimentary_rock).
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Online bertatberts

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2012, 06:28:12 PM »
Dynamite:

This was post by MrFriday, on this very site, I think in 2009 hope it helps.

 * There is not one iota of unequivocal evidence that any God exists.
    * God cannot explain all that exists because God itself cannot be explained. This claim just gratuitously swaps one mystery for another.
    * Religions do not explain any mechanism or process whereby God created everything. It is effectively an appeal to magic.
    * Religious faith is generally indistinguishable from gullibility. Trust and faith, as human concepts, are normally based on experience and reason. Religious faith is necessarily based on belief in unproved and unknowable things.
    * A god or anything that exists outside the realm of natural reality is necessarily unknowable, unintelligible and incoherent. It is therefore irrational to believe in something that is supernatural.
    * Religious scripture:
          o is man-made
          o contains many translation and interpretation errors
          o is often self-contradictory
          o often contradicts known facts
          o promotes conversion by violence
          o calls for punishment and death to unbelievers
          o contains virtually no specific and unequivocal predictions
          o contains only vague predictions beyond its own time
          o contains many failed prophecies, predictions and unfulfilled promises of God
    * Scripture contains too much that is vague, metaphorical and symbolic to be instructions from a divine being to humans. A perfect being would be expected to be able to communicate much better than that.
    * In order to render most of scripture useful, it must necessarily be interpreted. This makes it easily twisted to support nefarious purposes.
    * The problems with scriptures outweigh any good messages they may contain. If read at all, they should be considered opinion and philosophy and taken with a grain of salt.
    * Morals are based on human sympathy and empathy, not on divine guidance. Establishing moral codes based on theism is unnecessary, riddled with contradictions, and fraught with danger.
    * Religion is divisive in that it pits groups of otherwise indistinguishable people against one another. There are already more than enough differences for humans to fight over. And religion is the most intransigent of such divisions because many people feel it is a divine duty to revile those who believe differently than they do even if they don't see the reason in it.
    * Religions are generally intractable when it comes to substantive compromise with other religions or belief systems.
    * All suggested ways to perceive God rely on internal mechanisms that are subject to personal desires, suggestion, and mistakes. On the question of communicating with God, religion insidiously asks us all to deceive ourselves.
    * People are animals. We are only special due to our more developed brain. (We share 98% of our DNA with chimpanzees)
    * Abrahamic religions teach that the earth is only about 6000 to 10000 years old. All claims of a young earth are refuted by volumes of clear and mutually corroborating evidence in multiple scientific disciplines as well as a host of mutually confirming dating techniques that are not subjective or rationalized.
    * Every culture that has existed has had God myths and other superstitions. This is often used as an argument for the existence of God. Rather than indicating that there is a true God, this indicates that people are simply attracted to the idea.
    * Goodness, truth, wisdom and all other purported attributes of God are human concepts. When applied to a presumed entity so completely different in kind as to be supernatural, they are meaningless. The idea of God is thus incoherent.
    * Infinity is a concept humans cannot comprehend except in a limited mathematical sense. If God is infinite, this also renders him unintelligible.
    * Belief in an afterlife is insidious and detrimental to social responsibility and mental health. It demeans actual life and frequently leads to the notion that killing someone is, at least conceivably, doing them a favor.
    * Organized religion wastes untold amounts of money and resources that could be used to care for people, promote real knowledge, and advance the human race.
    * Theism puts God above people thereby making people subservient, unimportant and expendable.
    * Religion relies on guilt, fear and outlandish promises to gain obedience.
    * Theism generally precludes any possibility of testing God or questioning his existence substantively. It is something like the wizard of Oz saying, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."
    * The methods used in proselytizing for religion bear an unmistakable resemblance to the methods of confidence men. But the scriptures consider this the great commission of mankind.
    * There are many good rational and logical arguments against theism but not one argument in favor of it that doesn't rely on a fallacy or assumption.
    * There are so many Gods put forth by thousands of religions that no one could ever be certain of picking the correct one, assuming that one exists.
    * Prayer is totally subjective and cannot be shown to have any more efficacy than pure chance.
    * There is no discernable difference between believing in God and having an imaginary friend.
    * People generally rely on facts and evidence in every human endeavor except religion.
    * Unequivocal miracles do not occur.
    * God supposedly speaks directly to the human spirit. This must be, at least partly, the same concept as mind. People who receive messages in their minds are invariably delusional.
    * There is no positive correlation between belief in God and being a moral person.
    * Populations that are predominantly theistic are almost invariably poor and undereducated. The converse is almost invariably true of populations that are predominantly atheistic.
    * Populations that are predominantly theistic almost invariably have higher general crime rates, higher violent crime rates, higher murder rates, higher infant mortality rates, more disease and starvation as well as inadequate healthcare. The converse is almost invariably true of populations that are predominantly atheistic.
    * Belief in religion has spawned uncounted cults that draw people in by appealing to the concept of faith without proof and the promise of prophets to come. Some examples are: Jim Jones and the People's Temple, David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, Marshal Applewhite and Heaven's Gate. These groups had religious followers who were convinced to brutalize, mutilate and kill themselves and their children on the basis of this kind of blind faith.
    * Religion has an extremely violent history that includes such things as crusades, inquisitions, witch hunts, genocide, terrorism and holy war. Untold millions have died in the name of religious icons and for religious beliefs.
    * Religions have a long history of misogyny.
    * Religion can be and has been used to support the concept of slavery.
    * Religious dogma is practically immune to the incorporation of new facts. The best it can do is strained reinterpretation.
    * The argument that God cannot be proven not to exist is irrelevant when one considers that to do so requires that the concept of a supernatural God be intelligible and coherent, which it is not.
    * There is a well known argument commonly called "The Problem of Evil". It basically says that if an omnipotent and omnibenevolent God exists, unnecessary or gratuitous evil would not exist in the world. Thus if God sees this type of evil and does nothing he is either not omnibenevolent because he doesn't care or not omnipotent because he is unable to stop it. There are many counter-arguments that have been used. However the only one that really could defeat the Problem of Evil is if one says that we cannot apply human standards to decide what is or is not gratuitous evil. This may well be true, but that argument renders God unintelligible and meaningless to humans. Either way, the concept of God seems to be highly doubtful.
    * Theists claim that God has given humans free will. However, this free will is anything but free. The choices are forced on pain of death and eternal suffering. It is equivalent to having a slave and saying something like: "I grant you your freedom to leave at any time. But if you do, I will torture you mercilessly and kill you as slowly as possible."

With thanks to MrFriday.
We theists have no evidence for our beliefs. So no amount of rational evidence will dissuade us from those beliefs. - JCisall

It would be pretty piss poor brainwashing, if the victims knew they were brainwashed, wouldn't it? - Screwtape. 04/12/12

Offline jdawg70

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2012, 06:29:40 PM »
There's only one argument you need.

There is absolutely no evidence for its claims. Everything else is just a variant on this.

Ah, yes. However, all the Christians I know are ignorant. I say to them there is no evidence at all

But they say there is.

Here is a few things they say in response:
- 75% of the Earths rock is Sedimentary
- The bible said it, so it MUST be true!
- It is historically accurate. Ex: "And Israel became a nation"
- If it isn't true, than you really think we came from apes?


Welcome to my frustrated world where I am a lone atheist surrounded by Christians. Ignorant Christians.

   Geez, all you have to do is go read through the endless threads from the past on this sight to find more than you will ever need. ;)

Been doing that, but it would be easier instead of a massive list of links to keep it to one thread.

Do you mean ignorant or close-minded?  The solution to ignorance is pretty straightforward - more information.  The solution to close-mindedness, on the other hand...no clue.  Maybe Alzael's crowbar.

I do have a hard time believing that *all* the Christians you know are that close-minded.  But, if that is indeed the case, and they all are of the 'the bible says it I believe it' type, you're going to be a little screwed because rational argumentation is going to be an uphill battle with those folk.
"When we landed on the moon, that was the point where god should have come up and said 'hello'. Because if you invent some creatures, put them on the blue one and they make it to the grey one, you f**king turn up and say 'well done'."
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Offline Alzael

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2012, 06:30:41 PM »
But I do wonder, not trying to be a theist here, but:
Why IS most of the rocks sedimentary?

It isn't. Only the land surface is. In total it's about 5%.

The easy answer is because the earth is constantly going through the rock cycle and both igneous rock and metamorphic rock have a lot to deal with under the earths surface and sedimentary rocks doesn't it just builds and builds over time.

Velkyn is the best to ask. It's her specialty.
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Offline Dynamic

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2012, 06:33:03 PM »
I learned that 75% of all rocks are sedimentary from a "Christian science book"

FFS.
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

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Offline Alzael

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2012, 06:33:45 PM »
Most of the rocks on / in the Earth would be igneous (we have at least one geologist here; I invite her correction if I'm wrong), so unless your "friends" are referring to a specific formation, they're wrong. Sedimentary rock is formed by processes at / near the Earth's surface, and makes up a very small part of the planet's composition (about 8% of the crust, according to this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedimentary_rock).

It's a Noah's flood argument. Or part of one.
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Offline Dynamic

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2012, 06:38:01 PM »
Man, these arguments are great. So was the answers to my questions.


*cough* I shall unleash hell mwhuahuah *cough*
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

If you want to talk through skype, message me.

Offline Quesi

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2012, 06:48:23 PM »
I suggest that you spend some time reading the Biblical Contradictions section of this forum. 

I think that you will find that there are many contradictions in the Bible.  There are also lots of things that are irrelevant.   You know.  All the stuff about how many shekels you have to pay your neighbor if your goat eats his crops, and all the stuff about how to properly sacrifice animals (without blemishes) to please God. 

The documents represent a reality that was relevant thousands of years ago.  Certainly, there are moral teachings in the Bible that you agree with.  There are probably other moral mandates that make no sense to you.  When you think about being a good, moral person, do you really think that the commandment about not making a graven image should be in the top ten?

What about Deuteronomy 22:6  If you come across a bird's nest beside the road, either in a tree or on the ground, and the mother is sitting on the young or on the eggs, do not take the mother with the young. ?  Do you even know what that means?

It is pretty confusing, right? Christians can't even agree about what much of the stuff in the Bible means. 

So if god were really omnipotent and omniscient, why did he provide us with scriptures that that are so confusing, that not even Christians can agree on the meaning.

Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2012, 07:05:34 PM »
I know you're new to this atheism stuff, Dynamic, and I've no doubt that you have left over questions such as this.

Sedimentary rock. First of all, remember that the 70% number you used is for rocks found on the surface. If you go down just a little, you will find only igneous rock, volcanic in origin.

It is the rock that reaches the surface of the planet and gets weathered away that eventually forms sedimentary rock. Ever been to a sandy beach? That's pre-sedimentary rock, not yet squished and heated and stuff. Give it time.

And what else would you expect after millions of years. Rock weathers. Rock gets pounded to pieces by oceans. By freezing and thawing. By wind, by rain. It gets dissolved by lichens. We've had rock and weather and oceans and lichens for ages. Ergo, sedimentary rock.

Does it say anything in the bible about what kind of rock we had before the flood? Or after? Or is this perhaps some excuse cooked up by fundamentalist theists who need to explain away things that can't be explained away.

If you're bored, go pick up two rocks, sit outside in a nice clean spot for a year and rub them together. Done? How much sand did you get? Not much, huh. Probably took longer that than, didn't it.

Depending on the source, you will find that between 10% and 20% of the sedimentary rock is limestone, Most of which forms out of the dead calcium based shells of sea critters. Who die, fall to the ocean floor, eventually get covered by enough other stuff to get crushed together, and poof, limestone. Well, you have to poof really slow, like for several million years, but you get the picture.

Go grab a handful of sea water. There are millions of little critters in there that you can't see that will eventually participate in the limestone business. But it takes a lot, because they're just barely there. And limestone is often found on top of other sedimentary rocks. Please explain using fundamentalist thinking. You can't, because they can't. Think, that is.  ;)

Of course a 6,000 year old planet wouldn't have a whole lot of sand and such. A little, yes. But not a lot. God can't rush some things.

And Israel as a nation? Two things. First of all, how did the author of Harry Potter know that there would be Hogwart Schools popping up all over the place. Not real as magic academies, but real nonetheless. Could it be that someone read the book, thought it a good idea, and then did it?

Sound familiar?

And keep in mind that the concept of a "nation" didn't exist in biblical times. There were empires and such, but not well described governmental units inhabiting a defined territory. Map making was in it's infancy, and it was pretty hard to define the edge of anything larger than a dinner plate.

At that time, a nation was grouping of related people. Does it say anywhere in the bible that in the future a "nation" will be defined by the land area it occupies as well as by it's inhabitants, languages and traditions? I don't think so.

I'll give you a free piece of advice I wish I'd had when I was your age. If you're going to be impressed by something, be sure it's impressive.  :D

Not everyone is entitled to their own opinion. They're all entitled to mine though.

Offline Nick

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2012, 08:39:00 PM »
No evidence for any of it.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline freakygin

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2012, 08:49:58 PM »
- The bible said it, so it MUST be true!

This is the perfect weapon.
There is nothing better than to smash them with their own weapon.
Because the bible contains so many error and contradictions.
Point them the error after they said "It must be true", and enjoy the fun.
If you argue correctly, you're never wrong..

Offline Historicity

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2012, 08:58:07 PM »
    * Morals are based on human sympathy and empathy, not on divine guidance. Establishing moral codes based on theism is unnecessary, riddled with contradictions, and fraught with danger.
You MUST not forget enlightened self-interest, that is, long term vs short term rewards. 

Nor forget logically foreseeing consequences.  Good intentions done with silly recklessness is evil and only a child (because they can't effectively do much) is excusable.

Offline rev45

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2012, 09:42:08 PM »
The one thing that sticks out to me that the Christianity is nothing more than mythology is the idea of angels.  I just posted some pictures of angels as the Bible describes them.  http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,22544.msg504073.html#msg504073

Sure there are other points that can be made against the religion, but after learning about angels I had to slap myself several times for ever buying into a word the Bible says. 
Here read a book.  It's free.
http://www.literatureproject.com/

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Offline Star Stuff

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2012, 10:19:11 PM »
The fact that this christian god character completely missed getting his message of salvation (you know - the "only" way to heaven bit) to the vast majority of humanity. Instead, he thought that the very best way to prevent the eternal torture of the personalities which survive death would be to select only a pin-point in time in primitive Palestine to a select few illiterate, pre-scientific, superstitious desert men, and then to have a few other highly ignorant desert men cobble together unsubstantiated scribblings - decades later - and then have some of those disparate scribblings hand selected by a council of yet other pre-scientific, superstitious desert men.




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Offline nogodsforme

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2012, 10:50:46 PM »
Missionaries are one of the best arguments against an all-knowing god. The one true religion only shows up in a place when people who believe in it arrive there.  Christian missionaries behaved as if god did not know that there were people in Africa, Australia or the Americas--those people had no religions. That means that god had not gotten there, somehow. Why do Christians assume that their god is as small and ignorant as they are?

It appears that gods, not matter how powerful they are in their sacred texts, just cannot manage to cross an ocean or climb a tall mountain. All religions are so geographically and culturally specific that they have to be virtually re-invented to make sense in a different place and time. And everyone pretends that the new version is the same as or better than the old one.

Another argument against an all-powerful, all-knowing god is the need for god to write, or inspire people to write, some long, complicated, hard to understand book full of strange parables and stories. This book has to be translated into different languages and recopied over and over by hand in dim light and physically carried all over the place.

Huh? That is not what a god would do. A god would put the important stuff right into people's heads, or on our hands or on the moon or something. Instead, the god does exactly what a human being might do to create a religion. Can you say, Dianetics by L. Ron Hubbard?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Online Add Homonym

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2012, 11:06:35 PM »
Dynamic, some of the satisfactory arguments against Christianity involve understanding how it evolved.

(1) Primitive sacrificial religion, requiring sacrifice of all first-born inc humans. Sacrifice to the God of war, Yahweh. At this point it's similar to all the other religions around it. Exodus 13:2, 22:29
(2) Yahweh says that he is jealous of all the other Gods, and ordains that the Jews worship him only. (Deut 5:9)
(3) Jews tone down first-born sacrifice, and convert it to redemption  (they add a bit more onto Exodus, 34:20)
(4) A fictitious Moses comes up with 613 crappy laws, on how to please God. The reason you should please god, is for blessings in the field (Deut 28:3), if God doesn't like you, he will kill you.
(5) Job 21 complains that evil men are just sent to Sheol with no punishment. Job 22 avoids answering his complaint.
(6) Jews start wondering what is in Sheol. Book of "Enoch" is faked, to explain what happens to bad people, both at judgement day, and in Sheol, chapter 22. Enoch is controversial, because is describes angles who revolted, and the Nephelim having sex with women prior to Noah. It was excluded from both Judiasm (~150BC), and Christianity (~320AD). However, it spawned Enochian Judaism, and Pharisaic thinking. The Sadducees maintained the attitude of Job. It's clear from Enoch that righteous people will be resurrected, and the wicked will be kept in hell, as per Luke 16.
(7) 0 BC, Pharisee Hillel starts talking about loving your neighbour. Pharisees start getting sick of the temple being used as an abattoir, and assert that people have to be nice, to get into heaven, rather than killing pigeons and washing their hands.
(8 ) Some chap called Jesus gets killed by the Romans, and the Pharisees start pinning all their ideology and midrash onto him
(9) Paul comes along, and states in Galatians, that he is going to go against all of Pharisaic teaching and other members of the church, and promote the idea that Jewish Law was never going to get people into heaven, and they need to worship Jesus as a God.
(10) Synoptic gospels are written in a way that still doesn't agree with Paul, but John and Acts fixes that up (a bit).

The disappearance of the book of Enoch leaves a big hole in understanding how heaven and hell magically appeared, when there is previously no evidence of it in the Old Testament. It leaves a question mark about why such a pivotal book can be deleted, just because the church says so.

Galatians is just pure comedy.

Humans, in general, don't waste any opportunity to be unfathomably stupid - Dr Cynical.

Offline Seppuku

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #22 on: May 11, 2012, 04:29:00 AM »
Quote
And how did the bible know Israel would become a nation?

Could well be a self fulfilling prophecy. Could well have happened because the bible said it was going to happen (in that people thought it was a good idea). It'd be kind of like saying Star Trek predicted the iPad or the mobile phone.
“It is difficult to understand the universe if you only study one planet” - Miyamoto Musashi
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Offline hickdive

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2012, 04:40:32 AM »
Stupidity, unlike intelligence, has no limits.

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2012, 05:03:45 AM »
Why IS most of the rocks sedimentary? And how did the bible know Israel would become a nation?

Israel is a "nation", but it's debatable whether the people who have gone back to it are anything to do with the originals. Most of the Ashkenazi Jews are still in USA, by the look of all the sitcoms and sci-fi. Since the prophecies say that all the Jews will be gathered back to Israel, then they obviously must mean Ashkenazi, as well. The Palestianians never left, but became Islamic. Given the world Jewish descent population is very large, they still have a few more peeps to fit into poor old Israel, to get the prophecies to work. There are 11 million practicing Jews, but the prophecy says that even the unbelievers have to go back as well. Who are they?

So, yer, some British fools made a country, and called it Israel.

http://www.alphanewsdaily.com/Warning%201%20Israel%20Jerusalem.html
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Offline Nozzferrahhtoo

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2012, 05:16:56 AM »
I too opened this thread with the intention of saying what many others users have said. There is currently no arguments, evidence, data or reasons on offer to suggest there is a god and given this is the core foundation of Christianity, the whole of Christianity fails as a result.

However it has been said above so many times my adding it helps nothing so I will try and add something original of my own to your arsenal against Christianity which has not been mentioned much yet, save an allusion to it in the signature of Alzael.

Chritianity is based on this idea that god “gave” us it’s only son and that that son “sacrificed” himself for humanity. However if one looks at the tales these concepts are an insult to our intelligence. To call the story as it is currently told a “sacrifice” is not only false but an insult to those who actually HAVE given their lives for a person or ideal.

God is all powerful in the tales. As such it has the ability we never have to get a dead son back whenever it so chooses. A choice all of us would likely make if we lost a child. There is a song called “Common People” by Pulp about a rich kid who wants to live like Common People to understand them. The singer points out she will never achieve this because when she is sitting in her dead end apartment watching roaches climb the walls she need only call her dad to make it all stop. So she will never truly understand.

Secondly since the son in question did not die but rose to take a position of eternal dominion and bliss beside the father… the god in question did not “give” us anything. At best he “lent” us a son. And even then that is being generous with linguistics.

Finally given the son again did not die but went on to an eternal life of dominion and bliss he did not “sacrifice” anything. He engaged in a damn good trade and one that very few of us would not take if offered.

So what exactly was meant to have been given or sacrificed here? Nothing that I can see and it is an insult to our intelligence to ask us to call it a sacrifice and it is an insult to anyone who actually did really give their life for a person or ideal with no such promises or rewards, and an insult to all parents who lost a child through such self sacrifice.

Had the fairy tale told by Christianity been that Jesus was offered eternal life of dominion and bliss and he turned it down in favor of the True Death as a sacrifice THEN we might have had a story at least worth telling enough not to be an embarrassment to anyone who subscribes to it.

Offline EV

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2012, 07:23:54 AM »
If you can get your head around it, the Euthyphro dilemma is fantastic. It blew my mind when I read it, and I have not seen a way to resolve it as yet.

The Euthyphro Dilemma is an interesting argument raised by Plato. It revolves around the statement:
“"Is the pious person loved by the gods because they are pious, or are they pious because they are loved by the gods?"

It is arguing from the standpoint of seeing God as a perfect being, NOT as a personalised God. It essentially shows that Morality and God are NOT linked, and in which case, the source of our morals, i.e. the Bible, is NOT relevant. So from there we can discount Christianity and all religion that has a perfect God...

This argument is summarised well in the words of the philosopher Leibniz:
Quote
"It is generally agreed that whatever God wills is good and just. But there remains the question whether it is good and just because God wills it or whether God wills it because it is good and just; in other words, whether justice and goodness are arbitrary or whether they belong to the necessary and eternal truths about the nature of things."

It's an argument that has literally plagued Christians since Plato was alive, over 2,000 years ago.

It is a vicious circle argument, if both claims are true, that is that God decides what is Good, and God does what is Good because he is Good, then it just goes round eternally.

Look it up, it's a good read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma
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"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
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Offline gonegolfing

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2012, 09:32:14 AM »
It's an argument that has literally plagued Christians since Plato was alive, over 2,000 years ago.

It is a vicious circle argument, if both claims are true, that is that God decides what is Good, and God does what is Good because he is Good, then it just goes round eternally.

Look it up, it's a good read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma

It's certain that the ability of the brain/mind complex to create absurdities--such as the god-idea--will always create dilemma's, paradox's, contradictions, and circular arguments that will of course make it impossible for the rational mind to overlook. Thank goodness for a rational mind.

It's the essence of the absurd that makes it so. But it's a properly functioning faculty of reason that protects us from the illogical and preposterous and keeps our minds and actions in check.

There are no dilemma's or paradox's that exist external of the mind.....only natural events. Therefore--and since it is agreed widely and been pointed out by those such as Mr. Friday that "There is not one iota of unequivocal evidence that any God exists." and that the evidence for any invisible, unnatural, immaterial, or nonphysical entities is also unavailable and absurd to think that there should be--the whole Euthyphro Dilemma then is simply a self-imposed, unnecessary to resolve, and absurd mind exercise that is completely futile and an intellectual faux pas.

Cheers

"I believe that there is no God. I'm beyond atheism"....Penn Jillette.

Offline Timtheskeptic

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Re: What are some of YOUR arguments against Christianity?
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2012, 09:37:55 AM »
Man, these arguments are great. So was the answers to my questions.


*cough* I shall unleash hell mwhuahuah *cough*

you can also use the information from the skeptic's annotated bible to support your arguments. I dd that to use the contradictions of the bible and shown it to the theist i was debating with few years ago. Sadly, i think they didn't want to believe that those are real contradictions.
Me:What are you looking at Eminem?
Brother: Nothing, Harry Potter.

I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.