Author Topic: NATHAN talks about Religious Healings  (Read 3728 times)

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Offline Timtheskeptic

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Re: NATHAN talks about Religious Healings
« Reply #29 on: May 10, 2012, 08:39:14 AM »
I do not believe there are medical teams evolved.
So, in other words, it's just a magic show with a theme. That's not very convincing.
Quote
It is open to the public and anyone can come observe the person's healing ....People are very private.....
Yes, people are so "very private" about their medical conditions that they go to an event that "is open to the public and anyone can come observe the person's healing". Yes, very private indeed. In other words, they are in on the scam, and any attempts to expose it as a scam will be considered "disruption". Awfully convenient.

I quite agree, what exactly are they so afraid of? It reminds me of Penn and Teller when they talked about "talking to the dead" episode.
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Re: NATHAN talks about Religious Healings
« Reply #30 on: May 10, 2012, 10:30:36 PM »
If/when the healing doesn't work, the pastor will look around and say, "My healing powers are blocked because there is an unbeliever present with underhanded motives." At which point the atheist should point at the pastor and say, "Yeah. And it's you."  :P
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Add Homonym

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Re: NATHAN talks about Religious Healings
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2012, 12:53:31 AM »
http://www.hektoeninternational.org/sunbathing-the-mind.html

Initially, I thought of looking for Islamic faith healing, but I found that Muslims are too stupid to post anything about faith healing.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091003123615AAs7GxQ
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Offline Timtheskeptic

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Re: NATHAN talks about Religious Healings
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2012, 08:28:41 AM »
If/when the healing doesn't work, the pastor will look around and say, "My healing powers are blocked because there is an unbeliever present with underhanded motives." At which point the atheist should point at the pastor and say, "Yeah. And it's you."  :P
^ lol, Not to mention that when doctors goes to heal people, they completely take the God out of the equation and healed the sick. Maybe the faith healers would be like, "Apparently God works through them, despite years of training and medical knowledge they acquired in medical studies."

Overall, their God is weaker than an atheist, a doctor, and a scientist.
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Offline Lola32802

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Re: NATHAN talks about Religious Healings
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2012, 01:53:49 AM »
*Religious healings* do happen.  Whether or not God is involved is a completely different matter.  My mom's friend had terminal cancer.  He went to a faith healer, and he felt a burning sensation throughout his body.  When he went back to the doctor for a check-up, the doctor told him that all of the cancer was completely gone.  Now, was it God, psi, or just a monumental placebo effect?  That's a different story, and I don't have the answer to that.  However, religious healings are definitely real.

Offline JohnKurwa

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Re: NATHAN talks about Religious Healings
« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2012, 03:24:42 AM »
*Religious healings* do happen.  Whether or not God is involved is a completely different matter.  My mom's friend had terminal cancer.  He went to a faith healer, and he felt a burning sensation throughout his body.  When he went back to the doctor for a check-up, the doctor told him that all of the cancer was completely gone.  Now, was it God, psi, or just a monumental placebo effect?  That's a different story, and I don't have the answer to that.  However, religious healings are definitely real.

What makes you think it was religious healing? As you say:

Now, was it God, psi, or just a monumental placebo effect?

Did he take medicamentation and/or did he have an operation?

My grandmother had MS, she was not healed though she was faithful.

How does God chose the ones which will be healed? Can you explain this? Does he put their faith on a scale and the one with more faith wins?
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Offline Nick

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Re: NATHAN talks about Religious Healings
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2012, 08:17:54 AM »
Damn good thing he was not an amputee. ;)
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Re: NATHAN talks about Religious Healings
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2012, 08:30:21 AM »
Quote
My grandmother had MS, she was not healed though she was faithful.

Same for my grandmother and her Alzheimers and people prayed for her too. She was always a good Christian woman and very kind and loving.


Faith healing could well be a placebo effect and not only that, but coninscidences people convince themselves are miracles. Add things like reconstructive memory combined with personal beliefs, what people believe happened can also be inaccurate.

For example, had this cancer patient been going through chemotherapy? And radiotherapy? My friend was given the all clear after going through it and my aunt is going through it right now. Another aunt of mine received the all-clear after she had breast cancer. This is all through treatment, not faith healing. I think we'd need the data to test whether or not it was the faith healing that saved Lola's mom's friend.

Faith healings can be fraudulent, imagine a magic show. Also it's interesting to see what the mind can conjure up when somebody 'believes' something.
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Offline JohnKurwa

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Re: NATHAN talks about Religious Healings
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2012, 08:58:39 AM »
Quote
My grandmother had MS, she was not healed though she was faithful.

Faith healing could well be a placebo effect and not only that, but coninscidences people convince themselves are miracles. Add things like reconstructive memory combined with personal beliefs, what people believe happened can also be inaccurate.

For example, had this cancer patient been going through chemotherapy? And radiotherapy? My friend was given the all clear after going through it and my aunt is going through it right now. Another aunt of mine received the all-clear after she had breast cancer. This is all through treatment, not faith healing. I think we'd need the data to test whether or not it was the faith healing that saved Lola's mom's friend.

Faith healings can be fraudulent, imagine a magic show. Also it's interesting to see what the mind can conjure up when somebody 'believes' something.

Yeah, I think the placebo effect is a good point (as it is a proven fact that generic medicaments actually can heal) I think this might have an influence.

Yep, "reconstructive memory (mixed) with personal beliefs" applies pretty good in my opinion.

I think it is a shame that the technical progress and the effort of medicine and research are denied.


also the point of why can't they help other people in hospitals which was brought up earlier seems extremely important to me.

practice what you preach!

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Re: NATHAN talks about Religious Healings
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2012, 02:15:57 PM »
Every religion claims to have done healings, including Scientology, and animistic religions like Vodun. Are all of these religions true?
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Nick

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Re: NATHAN talks about Religious Healings
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2012, 03:40:24 PM »
Besides NATHAN seems to have been taken over by the demons.  He is no where to be seen.  I guess demons won that battle.
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Offline Grogs

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Re: NATHAN talks about Religious Healings
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2012, 09:29:34 PM »
I think in a lot of instances 'miraculous' healing of cancer is shorthand for, "oops, we read the CAT scan / MRI wrong." If there's a tumor there and the doctor doesn't catch it, he/she will probably get sued down the road when the patient is finally diagnosed. This gives them an incentive to err on the side of diagnosing an illness, even if it isn't there. If later test show that there never was a tumor, they can't very well just come out and admit they screwed up - again, this gets them sued for being incompetent and causing mental distress. So when this happens, the doctor will likely give some line like, "Wow, I've never seen anything like this. That tumor just disappeared. Someone upstairs must be looking out for you." The patient probably prayed, or had someone in their family pray for them, so they go away feeling like a special snowflake because god miraculously healed them. The doctor doesn't get sued, so everyone is happy with the exception of atheists who have to listen to yet another "miracle healing" story.