Plain Jane Complain

[Maggie the Opinionated]

MM can speak for himself but I can say after less than what- 72? hours here that you are not teachers. If I had ever dared to say  to a student of mine a single one of the vile things you routinely say to us, I would have been out on my aspidistra in a nano second and rightly so. If I had ever dared to play fast and loose with the facts, as so many of you do routinely, I would have been out on my butt. You really need to hold a mirror up and take a hard look.

You have nothing but lies, misrepresentations and ignorance to offer. That vile, and probably mentally ill, woman keeps telling the same bald-faced lies about what I have said and not a single one of you calls her on it. Not only that. You agree with her and pile on with your own crap. Are all of you evil or are you simply mentally ill? Is there not one sane person among you who will step up and keep a thread on track? What good are moderators who not only do not moderate but are among the worst offenders? The very notion of creating "The Shelter", as absurd as it is, is an admission of utter failure. It is an admission that a critical mass of dishonest, ugly, invective-spewing members control this place and it will never be a place of discussion. It is and will remain a circle-jerk.

Perhaps it is just as well that you drive the theists away. We all hope to avoid hell. Why participate in it here willingly?

[HAL]

The above post was split off from another thread because it was off-topic and, well, because I want the members to answer her complaints.

[Tinyal]

Having read everything Plain J has posted, I don't see any reason for her to complain.
  Personally, I think she's been given ample time (and, initially) polite requests to back up her assertions, with the result she just kept repeating unsupported crap (um, I mean, religious dogma) combined with the tinyest nit-picking that had no relation to the question at hand.

In reality, I have no desire to spend much time talking to (or relating with) theists of any kind, at any place.  I'm already surrounded by their delusional nonsense at work, in politics, and out in the field.

 All of the xanity-crazed folks here in the USA (entire states full of em down south) should, in my view, break off, make their own country, and leave the rest of rational civilization alone for once and for all - stop trying to convert me, stop trying to shove your definition of moral down my throat, stop trying to bring it into politics, stop brainwashing children (and mentally abusing them with statements of hell & heaven) - if they'd just keep it to themselves,  I'd have no problems (for instance, I rarely have problems with Buddhists - they don't spend time trying to get me to see the light, nor try to pass laws reflecting their views on others).

  But of course they cannot keep it to themselves, their entire self worth is tied up in the delusion that their particular interpretation of a stupid 2000 year old book is the One True Way, and when it's challenged, they either have to admit they have zero evidence and much of what they believe has no relevance in the 21st century (thereby showing most of their adult life has been a waste and is of no significance), or they must cling to these murderous and insane beliefs with all their might - and try to drag anyone and everyone down with them.

Not once in 2000 years has a shred of evidence for any god of any kind ever been presented - I'm done kindly listening to them spout more nonsense and lies, it's all bullpatties with stale cream on top.

None of it much good for current levels of civilization, and quite a bit of it (re: rick perry, santorum, priests & rabbis) is downright straight out of the dark ages (surprise, surprise!), and I do believe they want to take the rest of us down into a rebirth of the 1400's.

None of them have anything to say re: their religious beliefs that I haven't heard a 1000 times.

[12 Monkeys]

meaningless pleading,when you fail to show evidence outside the bible for jesus,,,,you resort to telling us how mean we are

[Ambassador Pony]

Hi Jane, I'm Pony.

Please, tell me more about myself, or the three dozen or so members who you have not interacted with.

I always thought my favourite colour was green....am I wrong?

[ParkingPlaces]

I'll keep it simple. When hard heads collide, things go boink.

One cannot compare this site with a classroom. We mods are not graders nor are we authorized deemers of knowledge. This site has evolved into one with many a contentious argument, and some among us relish in that. Those that don't often get suggestions similar to the ones you have received as of late. The difference is that most of us are masochists.

Please note that we get a boatload of different christians (and other believers), all of whom tell us different stories. Hence it is difficult to come up with a standard and pleasant response to religious claims because there are just so darned many of them. So a lot of us wing it.

By the way, I don't see any record of you pushing the "report to administrator" button and complaining about anything.

And I am a little confused as to why you picked a softball subject in your "Shelter" thread. Why didn't you choose to discuss the historicity of Jesus in a place where nobody can call you wrong harshly?

If you wish to have discussions that are truly wonderful and never anything but cupcakes and sunshine, you might try http://isgodimaginary.com/forum/index.php. They have rules there, so everything is perfect.

[jaimehlers]

It's amazing to me how little this post jives with my own experience here as a new member, almost a year ago.  Perhaps it's because I actually stuck to what I knew and tried to back up what I was saying.  From what I've seen, your posts have basically been full of dodges.  And this one takes the cake.  Maybe instead of taking umbrage at how unfair you've been treated, you should consider whether your own behavior hasn't been the major contributing factor to it.  Because it's been my experience that the people here are not like the caricature you've portrayed here.  Instead, they are thoughtful, reasonable people who nonetheless have pretty much had it with hearing the same tiresome arguments from Christian believers who somehow think that they're offering something new and fresh.

And before you get too caught up in your outrage at the way you've been treated by some of the people here, maybe you should think about the fact that you've been throwing insults right back at them.  If you want to be treated decently, you have to act in a manner that invites decency, even if you aren't currently getting it.

[Ambassador Pony]

I tell students to take responsibility for their behaviour.

PJ, are you a teacher?

[Seppuku]

MM can speak for himself but I can say after less than what- 72? hours here that you are not teachers. If I had ever dared to say  to a student of mine a single one of the vile things you routinely say to us, I would have been out on my aspidistra in a nano second and rightly so. If I had ever dared to play fast and loose with the facts, as so many of you do routinely, I would have been out on my butt. You really need to hold a mirror up and take a hard look.

You have nothing but lies, misrepresentations and ignorance to offer. That vile, and probably mentally ill, woman keeps telling the same bald-faced lies about what I have said and not a single one of you calls her on it. Not only that. You agree with her and pile on with your own crap. Are all of you evil or are you simply mentally ill? Is there not one sane person among you who will step up and keep a thread on track? What good are moderators who not only do not moderate but are among the worst offenders? The very notion of creating "The Shelter", as absurd as it is, is an admission of utter failure. It is an admission that a critical mass of dishonest, ugly, invective-spewing members control this place and it will never be a place of discussion. It is and will remain a circle-jerk.

Perhaps it is just as well that you drive the theists away. We all hope to avoid hell. Why participate in it here willingly?

From what I've read of your posts you've hardly been innocent.

You've made claims without the ability to offer back up, people have discussed and expected some of your backup to your claims about historical evidence, which at no point you provide and you run them around in circles with claim after claim. You insult people and their intelligence, you later accuse them of being liars and you then wonder why people aren't treating you with much sympathy? 

If it's any consolation I've been on the receiving end of this forum's style of discussion and have subjected other atheist members to it, a lot of the time when somebody disagree with a fellow atheist on here the standards by which they debate with them does not change. It's intense and what I really like about it? It will scrutinise any points you make so if they're weak you ought to see them as weak.

Unfortunately this is something we get pretty sick of from certain groups of theists, how they judge us to be vile and ugly simply because we ask for some back up for the claims of the religious. How disgusting we are we expect people to be accountable for what they say and do regardless of whether or not it's religious. How vile that we encourage people to engage with our discourse. It's pretty much how a number of people treat atheists in society and then they wonder why they start provokative websites with names like "Why Won't God Heal Amputees" and "God Is Imaginary". It has been that way for a long time - being an atheist meant you were a terrible person because you do not believe in God. It's on reason there's been so many pissed off atheists in recent years and of course, religious folk have the audacity to claim to be 'victimised' when they've been dealing a lot of the s**t themselves. We see it on a fairly regular basis here and then the odd theist comes in knowing how to deal with us in a respectable manner. Even they might not be perfect in the way they engage with us, but we appreciate that they're trying and appreciate that they decent about it.

I will admit sometimes there are people on here who have been unfair or said unfair things, but if somebody directly insults you like that, just pick them up on it and defend yourself - report it to a moderator. Moderators try to intervene as little as possible so that people are given as much free speech as possible and they're flexible in how they debate. Bear in mind that actually a lot of theists go out and insult atheists without the mods stepping in. But then we don't tend to report it - or at least, as far as I recall I never have.

We actually have theists who come here and respect the rules and whilst they don't agree with us and may even have the odd run in with someone (it's a debate forum, it happens) they actually get along with people. I can't say we've seen any reason to have an actual problem with Magicmiles or Jstwebbrowsing, even if JWB got off to a rocky start, but I believe he's beginning to get the right idea, though I've not engaged him much in the last couple of days. The debate here gets heated, it's possible given the sheer number imbalance it may get overwhelming and you will need thick skin (regardless of whether you're a theist or an atheist), but if people respect how this forum works and understand the rules, they will get along fine, regardless of what they may believe. The reason the Shelter was conjured up is because of that imbalance, because of the sheer number of replies (and the size of them) and the fact some might not always want a hardcore and in depth discussion but somewhere a little less vigorous to go. It's meant to be a place where it's easier for a theist to engage.

[nogodsforme]

I very rarely use abusive language on any online forum. I think it is way too easy to be mean in an anonymous format in a way that we would never behave in public to someone's face. If I would not say it to someone in real life, I try not to say it online. I am a teacher, and I do get more sarcastic here than I ever would in a classroom, for obvious reasons.
 
Jane, you did not respond to what I asked you. Especially the part about how easy it would be for a real god to just leave copies of his magic book in local languages on each continent.[1]Or to just give people everywhere the correct knowledge without the need for flawed human missionaries taking the true faith to the heathen.

But no god has ever done that--it would be too much like the right thing. Every theist has to spend so much time explaining why things don't work the way their religion says they do, and apologizing for the obvious deficiences of their not-so-supreme beings.

Why can't you just admit that the whole religion thing is effed up, makes no sense, and you don't have the answers, but you continue to believe in your illogical god(s)for your own personal reasons? Because that is the honest truth. And we can accept that.

You are no exception. Nothing but excuses. And instead of answering people's questions with real information and the supporting evidence they requested, you have gotten huffy and started name-calling. Then you have the nerve to get defensive and attack the people who question you. Some posters here have responded in kind. But if I have insulted you, please show me where.

Or better yet, answer my questions.

1.	No theist has yet explained to me why a god would need a book written by humans to begin with. All those opportunities for mistranslation and distortion. Especially if most people are illiterate at the time of the religion's development.

[velkyn]

MM can speak for himself but I can say after less than what- 72? hours here that you are not teachers. If I had ever dared to say  to a student of mine a single one of the vile things you routinely say to us, I would have been out on my aspidistra in a nano second and rightly so. If I had ever dared to play fast and loose with the facts, as so many of you do routinely, I would have been out on my butt. You really need to hold a mirror up and take a hard look.

Jane, please do show us these “vile” things you accuse people of saying to you.  I’m guessing that you are claiming that anyone telling you that you and your claims are wrong is “vile”.  Unfortunately for you, telling someone that they are wrong is what teachers do, as well as informing them of what is correct. 

And you’d be out on your houseplant?  

You also claim that we have played “fast and loose with the facts”.  Again, I require evidence of this, Jane.  There is also absolutely no reason to think that you are a teacher at all.  You may indeed be but with the temper tantrums you throw on this site, I do hope not for the sake of your students.

You have nothing but lies, misrepresentations and ignorance to offer. That vile, and probably mentally ill, woman keeps telling the same bald-faced lies about what I have said and not a single one of you calls her on it.

Why Jane, do you mean me?  Let’s see, more claims that others have lied, used misrepresentations and have acted in ignorance.  Evidence please, Jane.  And the reason that no one has spoken up about my posts is that they are accurate.  I have shown your own words where you have made claims that you have tried to insist you’ve never made.  Your own words convict you. You now seem so enraged and embarrassed by that to the point you cannot refute anything at all and now lash out with even more baseless nonsense.

Not only that. You agree with her and pile on with your own crap. Are all of you evil or are you simply mentally ill? Is there not one sane person among you who will step up and keep a thread on track?

  More baseless accusations, Jane.  These are not helping your case.  Calling people “evil” or “mentally ill” or “vile” those who simply disagree with you is a rather extreme reaction.

What good are moderators who not only do not moderate but are among the worst offenders? The very notion of creating "The Shelter", as absurd as it is, is an admission of utter failure. It is an admission that a critical mass of dishonest, ugly, invective-spewing members control this place and it will never be a place of discussion. It is and will remain a circle-jerk.

Jane, it’s mildly amusing to see you single handedly trying to claim that you know everything, like oh, that the shelter is some admission of failure.  Unfortunately for you, that is again untrue.  It is an attempt to help those such as you not implode by giving you a place that isn’t beyond your ability to cope with.  You seem to think it was a play pen where you could say anything and no one would counter it.  It is not that, and repetition of your nonsense makes it no more true. No matter how many lies you want to tell, or insults you want to attempt, that does not make you or your religion any more worthwhile.  It does do the exact opposite.

Perhaps it is just as well that you drive the theists away. We all hope to avoid hell. Why participate in it here willingly?

  Well, Jane, you chose this supposed “hell”. Now, why is this?  You did read over the forum to get an idea what went on here, didn’t you? If not, then your actions and your ignorance are all your responsibility. You did see the name of the forum “Why Won’t God Heal Amputees?”   Did you think your baseless claism would be accepted with no question on a forum such as this?  It seems you did and now are angry that you’ve failed.  I could also see you being angry with your god since if you did pray to it for help in attempting to declare how great Roman Catholicism was here, it’s failed you too. 

[Maggie the Opinionated]

So many words. Yet nothing illuminating or helpful. I would suggest you review this:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,12167.msg502830.html#msg502830

I cleared up many of your misunderstandings there.

[velkyn]

So many words. Yet nothing illuminating or helpful. I would suggest you review this:

http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,12167.msg502830.html#msg502830

I cleared up many of your misunderstandings there.

Unfortunately for you, that is untrue too. 

[Maggie the Opinionated]

oh, dear, oh dear. Arguing, even with my own quoted words before you proving that you were mistaken? Even with the dictionary.com entry demonstrating that "it strikes me that" means "it seems to me"... and you still want to persist in believing what you wish to? Fine. So be it.

[Seppuku]

You back yourself up so adamantly with the dictionary but are unwilling to back up much else. Interesting you'd play the insignificant argument of semantics.

And you go around as though you've been victimised when you've just flung shit at people.

[Alzael]

oh, dear, oh dear. Arguing, even with my own quoted words before you proving that you were mistaken? Even with the dictionary.com entry demonstrating that "it strikes me that" means "it seems to me"... and you still want to persist in believing what you wish to? Fine. So be it.

As I believe I mentioned before, you do realize that just giving someone a negative does nothing to make their point less valid?

[Maggie the Opinionated]

Karma is an expression of one's opinion. My opinion of you and several others here is not high. Strive for better.

[nogodsforme]

Karma is an expression of one's opinion. My opinion of you and several others here is not high. Strive for better.

When you refuse to respond to thoughtful, legitimate questions, but have time to make snarky irrelevant comments, does that mean you can't respond? Or do you just prefer to engage in throwing crap around? 

[shnozzola]

This is precisely why I love this site.  Don't give up Jane, if what you are saying is the truth - you can't give up! But expect biting, direct argument from people who also believe their truth is right on, and are tired of being threatened by the good people of god!!

[Maggie the Opinionated]

I have not received thoughtful, legitimate questions but from one or two people and have answered them as accurately as I can. I have made no irrelevant comments. Snark is my habitual way of dealing with foolish posts.

[nogodsforme]

I have not received thoughtful questions but from one or two people and have answered them as accurately as I can. I have made no irrelevant comments. Snark is my habitual way of dealing with foolish posts.

Do I need to repost my questions, or can you find them?

[Maggie the Opinionated]

Surely you jest! How would I find them? For every one post I have written, I have had 4-8 offensive, off-topic posts in return. If you have questions, please ask them but before you do, please understand this. Since apparently neither logical arguments nor historical ones carry any weight here, I will not offer "evidence" for God. I will not apologize for my beliefs. I will not apologize for being very well educated in literature and foreign languages and knowing the difference between a metaphor and a simile;  for knowing the difference between hyperbole and a joke. That is just the nature of reality and just like everyone else, you must accept reality.

[Seppuku]

I have not received thoughtful, legitimate questions but from one or two people and have answered them as accurately as I can. I have made no irrelevant comments. Snark is my habitual way of dealing with foolish posts.

Then show us EXACTLY how we're wrong and back up your own claims. It's all very well telling people they're stupid and making all sorts of nasty and snarky comments, but you're not actually contributing the forum and are actually breaking forum rules. Respect those rules and you'll get along better with people.

[Maggie the Opinionated]

Odd. I showed Velly exactly how she was wrong about a number of wild statements she has made about me and it didn't do the slightest good. So you will have to forgive me for not believing you.

[Alzael]

Karma is an expression of one's opinion. My opinion of you and several others here is not high. Strive for better.

However the point still remains valid. As does your obviouos willingness to ignore it.

[Maggie the Opinionated]

Do I really need to spell it out? OK.

Everyone is welcome to his opinion. Not everyone is going to get agreement from me about his opinion. Whenever I wish to, I will express my opinion. I extend that same right to everyone.

[Seppuku]

Cool, negative karma, I've not had one for a long time. I don't even remember how I got my other one.


Anyway, lets put it this way, out of all the theists who are posting at the moment, you have been the one people are most critical of. Not because of what you believe but because of how you behave. We get along great with Magicmiles, sure there's some run ins, but it's a debate forum so it does happen and the best thing is to not fall out over them and I don't think that has happened, but if it has, I haven't witnessed it. JST has been given the benefit of the doubt by some members and we recognise that he's trying to engage the forum and respect that. You on the other hand, insults left, right and centre and when told to stop by moderators, you don't.

There are many things you have been asked for back up for and you've only been able to provide it when convenient - for example a dictionary definition on your particular phrasing.

[Alzael]

Do I really need to spell it out? OK.

Everyone is welcome to his opinion. Not everyone is going to get agreement from me about his opinion. Whenever I wish to, I will express my opinion. I extend that same right to everyone.

Do I really need to spell it out? You can have your opinion, no matter how uninformed. But that does not change the fact that Velkyn made a valid point, and your opinionated dismissal of it does not change that fact. You just make it obvious how little you have to work with.

By the way Sep, congratulations on your second point of negative karma from a psychotically ranting theist. one day you'll have a collection as impressive as mine.

[Maggie the Opinionated]

Do I really need to spell it out? You can have your opinion, no matter how uninformed. But that does not change the fact that Velkyn made a valid point, and your opinionated dismissal of it does not change that fact.

SHe has made no valid points. She just posts the same diatribes over and over again. Endless repetition of the same nonsense does not make it valid.

We get along great with Magicmiles, sure there's some run ins, but it's a debate forum so it does happen and the best thing is to not fall out over them and I don't think that has happened, but if it has, I haven't witnessed it.

This is, soberly speaking, hilarious. You treat him like dirt and, for whatever reasons, he takes it. That isn't "getting along".