What do your words say about you?

[Jstwebbrowsing]

For those that can understand and accept the symbolism, the Bible teaches:

From the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.  (Luke 6:45)

Is this Bible statement true?

[Bad Pear]

So some bronze age writer noticed how people usually talk at length about things that are close to their hearts or that they are passionate about. What a profound observation; It must surely come straight from Jebus! 

I guess what you're trying to imply here is that atheists only talk about god because secretly, in our heart of hearts, we really long for him? Try again. We talk about this issue because we are passionate about it's negative effects on society and the people therein. We do not long for god, but we long for a day when it is no longer necessary to fight against the batshit craziness of his followers.

As an aside: I expected this thread to be about "vulgar" language. Another in the long line of "you said 'fuck', you must have a limited intellect and/or vocabulary" threads that I see all the time.

[hickdive]

No. The heart does not overflow and, beyond providing a blood supply to the relevant organs, plays no role in speech.

[kaziglu bey]

For those that can understand and accept the symbolism, the Bible teaches:

From the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.  (Luke 6:45)

Is this Bible statement true?

The heart is an organ that pumps oxygenated blood through our body. It is part of the circulatory system.

Our brain is responsible for our thoughts, feelings, emotions, and delusions. Clearly, the heart doesn't speak through the mouth. The heart has nothing to do with thoughts or speech or feelings. What you need to realize is that people at the time the Bible was written actually believed that the heart WAS the center of thought and emotion. You would have thought that God, as the alleged intelligent designer, would have made sure that they were better informed so that they didn't write down such foolish mistakes for future generations to laugh at. Why would God want his people to look like morons? Why didn't God know any better than the primitive nomadic goat herders he allegedly created. It's not symbolism here. It's a simple matter of the Biblical God knowing no more about human anatomy, physiology or neurology than the barbaric and backwards cult that followed him.

[Jstwebbrowsing]

I did say.

For those that can understand and accept the symbolism

Let's say Homer Simpson made it up.

Is it true?

[Bad Pear]

I did say.

For those that can understand and accept the symbolism

Let's say Homer Simpson made it up.

Is it true?

I answered this. Yes,  taking the symbolism into account, it is true. It's a rather obvious observation. People talk about what interests them, what they are passionate about.

That having been said, you do understand what they previous posters are pointing out don't you? This was likely not symbolism for the original writer. Many people from that time actually thought that emotion and related outbursts of speech literally came from the heart. They did not know it was just a pump.

[Anfauglir]

I did say.

For those that can understand and accept the symbolism

Let's say Homer Simpson made it up.

Is it true?

By this token, would you agree that those who demonstrate vociferously against abortion are in fact in support of it?  That the Christian who speaks out against sin is really the most sinful?

[One Above All]

As hickdive said, the answer is no. That statement is illogical at best; hopelessly retarded at worst. If your heart WAS capable of overflowing, you'd die from massive internal hemorrhage.

[stuffin]

For those that can understand and accept the symbolism, the Bible teaches:

From the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.  (Luke 6:45)

Is this Bible statement true?

I understand and accept symbolism.

Based on that, I believe the snake in the Garden of Eden was symbolic for Adam's penis and the fruit represented his seed. All of which makes me beleive God kicked them out of the Garden because they practiced oral sex.

Could this be true?

[gonegolfing]

For those that can understand and accept the symbolism, the Bible teaches:

From the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.  (Luke 6:45)

Is this Bible statement true?

Just what is the purpose of this question ?

Why don't you quit obfuscating and get to your point ?

 

[Hatter23]

Just what is the purpose of this question ?

Why don't you quit obfuscating and get to your point ?

 

Ooooh! Ooooh! Ooooh! Mister Kotter, I know dis one Mr. Kotter!

[Ivellios]

Based on that, I believe the snake in the Garden of Eden was symbolic for Adam's penis and the fruit represented his seed. All of which makes me beleive God kicked them out of the Garden because they practiced oral sex.

Could this be true?

No, no, no.

The tree of knowledge represented adam's manhod and the fruit represents this jewels. The snake represents the sperm. It's allegorical, representing a guy comming to the woman and women's desire to grab men by the balls and get men to submit. ie. using sex to curry favors. Adam did and it pissed yhwh the **** off. Eve was the first prostitute.

Nah, it's just mythology trying to explain why guys go ga-ga over women.... it fails when facing reality.

 

[Add Homonym]

You may have to quote the real Bible, rather than the JW digest version:

[45] A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

[11] Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

The fallacy in your original question, is getting us to accept in good and evil without defining them. A fishy man will bring about that which is fishy. A clever man will bring about that which is clever.

[Timo]

From the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.  (Luke 6:45)

Well you do go on a bit, mate.

[velkyn]

so, if this is true, Jesus was a bit of a twit with his words flowing out of a "heart" that randomly hated fig trees? 

[Jstwebbrowsing]

By this token, would you agree that those who demonstrate vociferously against abortion are in fact in support of it?  That the Christian who speaks out against sin is really the most sinful?

Yes I would.  Jesus never taught his disciples to force their opinions on others, or at least I have never learned this from the Bible.  The fact that some people believe he did has caused the shedding of much blood over the past 2000+ years but he never taught his followers to do so.  They have the right to enforce their views, as supported by the Bible, upon those that desire membership into their congregation only.  They have the right, or rather compulsion, to make known their beliefs to others but that is as far as it goes.  While I do not believe in abortion I respect the fact that the "world" was given, by God, the opportunity to make it's own decisions.  Is a Christian higher in authority than God himself?

You may have to quote the real Bible, rather than the JW digest version:

[45] A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

[11] Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

The fallacy in your original question, is getting us to accept in good and evil without defining them. A fishy man will bring about that which is fishy. A clever man will bring about that which is clever.

Yes.  Time and again I keep assuming that all those here have more knowledge of the Bible than they actually do.  Some of the above posts demonstrate they do not have the same understanding as I, at least those that attempted to give a satisfying answer.  But I am glad you added to what I quoted to clarify my meaning.  I will modify my OP.

In this setting, my attempt is to show that those that speak hurtful things bring these things out from their "heart".   But first I wanted them to agree with the truthfulness of this statment so they could judge based on their own belief.  I myself have been the target of some of these hurtful things.  I realize this all depends on my understanding of the words hurtful, just as with Clinton everything was dependant on his undertanding of the words "sexual relations".  Furthermore I would like to state for the record that I have actually never felt hurt from these comments.  In fact they actually cause me to feel compassion as long as I can keep my own anger under control.  Also for the record it has only been a minority that have spoken such hurtful things.

Moreover it is a plea to those that do speak such things to refrain from doing so.  Please note that this is not a plea for moderators to act.  It really is directed soley to those that would speak hurtful things to others in hopes they will do a little self-examination.

[Jstwebbrowsing]

Well the "modify" button is not available for my OP.  I will expand here then.

For those that can understand and accept the symbolism, the Bible teaches:

For each tree is known by its own fruit. For example, people do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they cut grapes off a thornbush. A good man brings forth good out of the good treasure of his heart, but a wicked man brings forth what is wicked out of his wicked [treasure]; for out of the heart’s abundance his mouth speaks.   (Luke 6:44,45)

Is this Bible statement true?

[12 Monkeys]

Well the "modify" button is not available for my OP.  I will expand here then.

For those that can understand and accept the symbolism, the Bible teaches:

For each tree is known by its own fruit. For example, people do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they cut grapes off a thornbush. A good man brings forth good out of the good treasure of his heart, but a wicked man brings forth what is wicked out of his wicked [treasure]; for out of the heart’s abundance his mouth speaks.   (Luke 6:44,45)

Is this Bible statement true?

Krusty the clown said it I am using it as symbolism....You sir,are an idiot

[velkyn]

Yes.  Time and again I keep assuming that all those here have more knowledge of the Bible than they actually do.

aka wah, anyone who doesnt' agree with me doesn't know the bible.  Nice nonsense there.   And now we get a emotional plea "you are hurting me with questioning my claims".  No one likes to be shown wrong and it does hurt.  But an adult accepts that hurt in exchange for the truth. 

Jst, your rather transparent attempt here to call anyone who shows that you are wrong "wicked" is amusing.  You try so hard to paint yourself as the "good man" but all I've seen from you is are untruths, willful ignorance and well, that sure doesn't make you look good at all. 

[stuffin]

(snip)
For those that can understand and accept the symbolism, the Bible teaches:
(snip)
Is this Bible statement true?

Yes, from a symbolic stand point it can be considered true.

But is it true on all levels? No.

Symbolic logic is by far the simplest kind of logic—it is a great time-saver in argumentation. Additionally, it helps prevent logical confusion when dealing with complex arguments.

http://philosophy.lander.edu/logic/symbolic.html

[Jstwebbrowsing]

I believe the meaning of the Bible quotation is self-explanatory.

And no I don't believe I am a "good man".  In fact I am probably more "wicked" than you.  I just happen to believe the Bible.  As a matter of fact that's why I draw the conclusion that I am wicked.

I pointed to the meaning of hurtful words.  I've tried my best not to say anything hurtful.  Condescending is another word that comes to mind.

Can you actually add anything to the conversation other than a condescending attitude? 

[Jstwebbrowsing]

Thank you stuffin and others that have honestly tried to answer the question.

[Add Homonym]

It actually takes real talent, to not go around saying destructive things. JWs go from door to door, telling people that the world is about to end. This is not productive, even if they are well intentioned. Since 1870, they have been going around depressing people, and telling them that science is wrong. Typically, people who believe that the world is about to end, don't get on with a real life.

Most people exude non-self-aware bitterness and insecurity, rather than 'evil'. To be 'evil' you have to deliberately manipulate people to destruction. Even if more self aware people attempt to pretend to be objective, the advice they give others is bent by their initial assumptions, which will not change, and their perspective, which is likely always be badly calibrated. There are some people who have a knack of saying the right supportive things, and these people likely score highly in emotional IQ tests. Given the prevalence of Aspergers, and the tendency of females to be more empathetic, this is genetic, not something that a person has any real control over.

[Anfauglir]

By this token, would you agree that those who demonstrate vociferously against abortion are in fact in support of it?  That the Christian who speaks out against sin is really the most sinful?

Yes I would.  Jesus never taught his disciples to force their opinions on others, or at least I have never learned this from the Bible.  The fact that some people believe he did has caused the shedding of much blood over the past 2000+ years but he never taught his followers to do so.  They have the right to enforce their views, as supported by the Bible, upon those that desire membership into their congregation only.  They have the right, or rather compulsion, to make known their beliefs to others but that is as far as it goes.  While I do not believe in abortion I respect the fact that the "world" was given, by God, the opportunity to make it's own decisions.  Is a Christian higher in authority than God himself?

You DO realise that you didn't answer the question, don't you?

I asked "would you agree that those who demonstrate vociferously against abortion are in fact in support of it?"

Your response talked a lot about whether people should force their opinions, but didn't actually address the "methinks he doth protest too much" point I was making.  So I'll ask it again:

"Do those who speak out against abortion really agree with it"?

[velkyn]

I believe the meaning of the Bible quotation is self-explanatory.

And no I don't believe I am a "good man".  In fact I am probably more "wicked" than you.  I just happen to believe the Bible.  As a matter of fact that's why I draw the conclusion that I am wicked.

The false modesty, it's so common.  In modern mores, you are indeed less than I am since you see fit to try to lie to me.  And you probably are wicked per your bible since you do ignore so much of what your god says to do and you don't even try to live up to that primitive and ignorance set of rules it gives. 

I pointed to the meaning of hurtful words.  I've tried my best not to say anything hurtful.  Condescending is another word that comes to mind.

  Jst, it's hurtful when you lie and try to remove the chance of anyone making an informed decision. It's hurtful when you ineptly ignore the facts that show you are wrong because your having false information will make it likely you will make an ill-informed decision and potentially harm others.  I am condescending because you have shown no interest in learning anything.  You act like a spoiled adult who thinks that his shit doesn't stink. You must be treated as a recalcitrant child because you act like one.  There is no reason to respect you and condescension is the only think that seems to get your attention. 

Can you actually add anything to the conversation other than a condescending attitude?

You've done quite a good job yourself by declaring that only you know the bible "correctly" and the baseless claim that everyone else is "wrong".

[gonegolfing]

I believe the meaning of the Bible quotation is self-explanatory.

And no I don't believe I am a "good man".  In fact I am probably more "wicked" than you.  I just happen to believe the Bible.  As a matter of fact that's why I draw the conclusion that I am wicked.

I pointed to the meaning of hurtful words.  I've tried my best not to say anything hurtful.  Condescending is another word that comes to mind.

Can you actually add anything to the conversation other than a condescending attitude?

That's it ?

That's the point of your thread--to expose yourself through this passage as a wicked man ?

You'll get no sympathy from me. If you want to choose to be duped into believing your a wretched mess then that's your business. But publically taking ownership of that thinking is a sure sign of a person who is suffering from a religiously induced mental abnormality/illness, and of course those type of vile mind altering beliefs deserve public ridicule.

You treat your life as if it were like a simple bank loan that someone has kindly stepped in and paid off for you because you're struggling to make the payments........Not so !! Properly read, the scriptures make it clear that your life is that of being an irreparable moral criminal from birth and worthy of eternal death.

And No, I'm not trying to be cocky and hurt your feelings with that statement. Jst these are just some plain old facts. Normal rational people do not strut around saying "Look at me!! I'm a wretched sinner who deserves eternal suffering, but the torturous death of an innocent person has paid that debt for me and I'm free !!!!!!"

You need to get fucking real and understand that moral justice could never ever be done through the offering up of the innocent for the guilty. If so, then at that point it is no longer moral justice but an abhorant wholesale revenge.

Your belief that we're all wicked in nature at birth is a disgusting manipulative sham. Grow up.

[Omen]

Yes I would.  Jesus never taught his disciples to force their opinions on others, or at least I have never learned this from the Bible.

No where in the bible does it present any example where non-believers are not thoroughly ostracized, condemned, and labeled with as many pejoratives as can be inserted into a single sentence.  Jesus criticizes non-believers, to the face of non-believers, calling them enemies for their non-compliance to his own imagined super-naturalism.  Someone who doesn't want to force their opinion on others doesn't forcefully overturn tables in a temple, engage in the behavior of a religious sycophant publicly attacking other religious sycophants, and preach an insular/xenophobic ideological system of belief.

Your ignorance in this defies credulity.

  The fact that some people believe he did ..

They don't have to believe he did, he did.  The entire bible does.

You may have to quote the real Bible, rather than the JW digest version:

[45] A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

This is a self serving tautological platitude, anyone can say the same thing about themselves and in deference to the in group they wish to promote.

Yes.  Time and again I keep assuming that all those here have more knowledge of the Bible than they actually do.  Some of the above posts demonstrate they do not have the same understanding as I, at least those that attempted to give a satisfying answer.  But I am glad you added to what I quoted to clarify my meaning.  I will modify my OP.

Far more here have read your bible than obviously you have.

Moreover it is a plea to those that do speak such things to refrain from doing so.  Please note that this is not a plea for moderators to act.  It really is directed soley to those that would speak hurtful things to others in hopes they will do a little self-examination.

No where do we need to censor our criticism of your faulty claims.  The actual criticism of your claims is not mistreatment of yourself, that's your own emotional insecurities speaking for you.

[Omen]

For those that can understand and accept the symbolism, the Bible teaches:

There is no reason to qualify any follow up statements with this loaded and predictable dismissal of anyone that doesn't agree with you at face value.  Metaphors can be interpreted basically however one wishes, they are only informed by the context of how one perceives the meaning of the terminology being used.  No one has to 'subscribe' to your metaphorical understanding and it is itself not represented of a cohesive form of intellectual understanding of a subject matter.

From the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks.  (Luke 6:45)

Is this Bible statement true?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tautology_%28rhetoric%29

A rhetorical tautology can also be defined as a series of statements that form an argument, whereby the statements are constructed in such a way that the truth of the proposition is guaranteed or that the truth of the proposition cannot be disputed by defining a dissimilar or synonymous term in terms of another self-referentially. Consequently, the statement conveys no useful information regardless of its length or complexity making it unfalsifiable. It is a way of formulating a description such that it masquerades as an explanation when the real reason for the phenomena cannot be independently derived. A rhetorical tautology should not be confused with a tautology in propositional logic, since the inherent meanings and subsequent conclusions in rhetorical and logical tautologies are very different.

It is only 'true' as far as a 'tautology' is true.  ( Defined above )  It is a type of rhetorical statement that is always true and in this case it is delivered in a manner to be to the benefit of the person within their own ethnocentric beliefs.  So effectively anyone that doesn't agree with your own ethnocentric value system is excluded out of your own condescending intellectual dishonesty.

Luke 6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Of course, any xenophobic religious ideology can claim the same thing, dismissing those who do not comply as being that of 'evil men'.  The verses continue ( going backwards ):

Luke 6:44 For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

At some point much of this internal self reinforcement becomes repetitious platitudes.  What makes it even worse is the fact that the chapter and verse isn't being applied to 'all' men ( humans ), it is instead being applied directly to those who you would call brother ( going backwards ).

Luke 6:42 Either how canst thou say to thy brother, Brother, let me pull out the mote that is in thine eye, when thou thyself beholdest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye.

Effectively, it's only condemning criticism of people who believe as you do.  The biblical use of 'brother' ( or sister ) is always in reference to people who believe as you do.  It also condemns calling your brother and only your brother a fool, while through out the bible the biblical rhetoric frequently calls others who are not brothers ( non-believers ) fools.  Which makes absolute sense considering the self serving nature of the use of 'brother' as a fellow believer as well as only seeking to protect from judgement those who believe as you do.[1]

1.	Best part about christians copy pasting scripture, it often doesn't mean or isn't being used in the manner they wish it to be.  You can usually just expand into the chapter/verse to discover its something else entirely and you're often rewarded with the fact that it is more likely vindictive.

[Hatter23]

I pointed to the meaning of hurtful words.  I've tried my best not to say anything hurtful.  Condescending is another word that comes to mind.

Can you actually add anything to the conversation other than a condescending attitude?

I am no more condescending to you than I am to any other imbecilic fool that holds up a book of fairy tales that can,has and will be used as justification for injustice, torture and death and declares it to be true. My condescension has a reason, not only do our opinions differ, not only are you not right, but you hold onto a position that would be considered the ravings of a mad man except that it is socially acceptable by the vast numbers of credulous morons that share it. My condescension has a purpose, not only does it relieve the stress of having to put up with living in a world populated by nutbags that hold onto bronze age mythology while carrying cellphones, I hope to occasion wake one or two up to the fact that there is no evidence of some desert sky god called Yahweh than there is evidence of Zeus or the Flying Spaghetti Monster.