The Bible may teach that, but there is no guarantee that the Bible is itself correct. Have you considered that there may not be a single person who has ever lived or who ever will live who will accurately know this truth that you seek? That it may be impossible to determine if it exists in the first place?
Well this would depend on if God inspired the Bible or not. Yes I have considered the possibility that God does not exist. But the more and more I delve into the Bible more and more truth I see. Will I ever learn the sum of it? Will anyone? I don't know. Why do I believe in the miracles that are recorder? Because everything else in the Bible I find to be true. So why would everything else in the Bible be true but these be a lie?
Indeed, a belief in something won't cause it to be. So why, then, would a supreme being judge and punish people for the mere fact of not having the right belief?
That would depend on why they don't have the right belief. Because they don't care to learn? That would be one reason.
What if there is nothing but opinions? You seek this truth, but you do not actually know that it exists. You only believe that it does because of the Bible, but the Bible itself was written by humans. There is no way for you to determine that it contains any truth at all.
I look around observe the world and mankind of our time. I read through the Bible and I see a mirror image painted within it's pages. What am I to think? I reason that the reasons it provides for these events is also correct.
does it seem as if the universe was made for humanity or not?
Whether I choose to believe in God or not does not change my opinion. The answer is yes. Now they may have a lot to learn in order to really enjoy it but that's beside the point. Now I will ask a question. Can you really look at the earth and think it wasn't created perfectly for man. And I am talking about looking beyond the bare necessities for survival.
Have you ever heard a cat purr, or watched a dog wag it's tail at it's owners approach?
But they don't do so because they are looking at a sunset. Only man is able to fully take advantage of all the earth has to offer. And they take great delight in doing so.
Of how the bible came to be, or of the history within the bible?
If it is the first, then I am relatively well versed thanks to the help of Mr. Bart Ehrman, and Mrs. Karen Armstrong . I've read quite a bit about the history of the bible.
I know some about the history of the former. Could you tell me some of the things you know to be fact and not theory?
I have to ask you whether or not the fact that Harry Potter takes place in London is evidence that He is an actual person and that he can cast spells with a wand?
I don't know. How long have I known you? Are you mentally stable? Do I think you are creating a conspiracy? Have you ever lied to me before? Do I hear the same story from other people? If all those answers are positive then I would at least accept there is someone named Harry Potter that lives in London that did something with a wand you at least thought was magic.
Have you ever read the bible from cover to cover Justwebbrowsing? I'm starting to think you haven't.
Yes. Have you ever read the Bible from a viewpoint other than to discredit it?
Which has no bearing on the matter of freedom, which is under discussion.
I have no problem giving up a little freedom if I get something worthwhile in return. I pay taxes.
Also that's not actually true. You mean that you don't want to change what you think are gods laws. You have no way of knowing that what you think his laws are is what they actually are.
You are right. But whatever they may be I will gladly accept them if I could live forever in a paradise. I would give up a lot of freedom for that. I mean do you think everyone's just going to be gathered around and be bowing down to God all day? That's not what he had Adam do. Knowing what I know now, I would change places with Adam in a heartbeat and I would be perfectly
happy not eating fruit off one tree. At least I don't have to pay taxes anymore.
Pretty much all of it. That's why you can't define it.
You are right. Without the entire knowledge of God I could not hope to accurately define him no more than I can define you.
Evidence is something that is used to demonstrate the truth.
I cannot see God no more than I can see the wind. But, like the wind, I can feel him and see what he does. And I don't need a scientist to tell me that wind exists.
Then let's not forget that the bible is not even remotely in line with the personality of the god that you claim exists, unless that god is heavy schiztophrenic tendencies.
This is according to you own magic decoder ring.
Why do we need to build special shelters to keep us from dying from exposure to the elements in most parts of it? Why is this planet full of thousands of species of animals, bacteria, and microbes that can kick our asses?
Because man did not listen to the creator and was forced to leave his home.
How do you know this only applies to humans? I mean beyond your stunningly accurate ability to reshape your own reality to match what you want it to.
What else can enjoy all the earth has to offer?
It's not. It just isn't necessary
Then quit beating me over the head with science. Science and God are not mutually exclusive. According to the lack scientific evidence to prove or disprove God I choose to believe in him because of other outside sources. According to this same lack of scientific evidence you choose to believe he does not exist and won't accept outside sources.
Jst, what do you think about this barbaric law of Yahweh's?
Well first I would think there were not many cheating wives among the hebrews. Secondly I would think God would know the truth. Thirdly I would think this was culturally acceptable. Fourth I think she should be punished if she did cheat. Fifth I am glad a new coventant was formed. Was the punishment just at that time? That is subjective.
What is curturally acceptable today? Adultry. Show me how this way is more optimal.
Is the Bible your evidence for this? Or are you claiming this to be the case using an outside source?
And outside source pointed it out to me.
And because he didn't have to worry about the problems that come with self awareness, he achieved a level of happiness I'm certain no human could ever hope to sustain.
Unless we have someone to love us and take care of use like a cat does.
The answer is "hidden" within your post. I wish I had time to read the rest of the thread but I'm sure the Christians who reply will not be able to see your "hidden" answer
Neither of those are my posts.
You know, I'm actually not sure what would convince me, either. However:
If your deity exists and is omniscient, he does know what would convince me. And he also knows that, if he does exist, I want to know about it.
And if your deity exists and is omnipotent, then he is also capable of giving me whatever it is that would convince me of his existence.
And yet, here I sit, continuing to be an atheist. Why is that?
Maybe because you have things so set in your mind that you are impossible to convince.
I can imagine a believer dropping to their knees and praying if what they perceived as a god popped up in front of them and did a demonstration. I would be amazed, but I would just start asking questions like "How did you do that" and so on. No matter what It did I would want to know how it did it and how it worked.
That's what the problem is. I would always assume whatever it was could be explained no matter how amazing, and therefore I wouldn't be able to tell whether it was an advanced alien or a god. Maybe there's no effective difference between the most advanced alien technology and what a god can do. If anyone knows of a way to tell the difference (Jstweb?) please post in the thread.
Simple. God is the one that created the aliens lol. Sorry, I am running out of steam for this post. Are you suggesting this is the case?
The truth of the matter is, christians delude themselves into making up a phone conversation with god while atheists can see that the phone cord has been cut.
Conversly, many others think their prayers have been answered. Does this make them better people? Perhaps, but not necessarily so in every case.
Jst, I've asked quite a few times now. But I always get absolutely NOTHING in response. Tell me...... like Brakeman says, how many times should I dial the same number before concluding there is nobody on the other end?
Maybe you are dialing the wrong number. Consider this. Let's say God wants to give you an answer. If he chooses not to communicate directly with you or without miraculous means then he must use a messenger. So how would you expect a messerenger from god to deliver a message from God to you? Would he write you a letter? Would he call you on the phone? Would he broadcast it on radio or TV for you to hear? Drop you an email? Send you a text? Or would you expect God's messenger to deliver it right to your front door?
You should consider this question the next time one of Jehovah's Witnesses knocks on your door.Moderator Note: I fixed some pretty awkward quoting in this post. Jst, before you post complicated posts like this, you might hit the "Preview" button and see what it looks like before you send it off. Also, it is polite to note who it is you are quoting. The conversation is going nice and peaceful right now but little things like this can start irritating the locals.