Author Topic: The Amazing Incredible Broccoflower  (Read 1020 times)

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Offline inveni0

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The Amazing Incredible Broccoflower
« on: May 02, 2012, 01:42:17 PM »
I hate giving creationists any new fuel, but I'm fascinated by this vegetable, which I only recently discovered.  It's called a Broccoflower (though there may be a more accurate name out there somewhere), and it grows in these beautiful, mathematically inspired fractal patterns.

Any thoughts on how this could possibly happen?  Since genetics are random, how does a "perfect" mutation such as this ever come about?

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Online One Above All

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Re: The Amazing Incredible Broccoflower
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2012, 01:45:03 PM »
What perfect mutation? The "spikes" pointing in every direction, all of which are bent?

That said, sometimes you win the lottery. Sometimes you don't. Sometimes you get a smaller prize.
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Offline inveni0

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Re: The Amazing Incredible Broccoflower
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2012, 02:05:02 PM »
What perfect mutation? The "spikes" pointing in every direction, all of which are bent?

In terms of a naturally occurring fractal pattern, it is as close to perfect as any rational being could ask.
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Offline Zankuu

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Re: The Amazing Incredible Broccoflower
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2012, 02:21:42 PM »
Damn, that is one beautiful vegetable. I don't think I've ever said that before.

Was is cross-pollinated?
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Offline inveni0

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Re: The Amazing Incredible Broccoflower
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2012, 02:23:47 PM »
Damn, that is one beautiful vegetable. I don't think I've ever said that before.

Was is cross-pollinated?

I don't know the origin.  I just came across it in another forum and was entranced.
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Offline velkyn

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Re: The Amazing Incredible Broccoflower
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2012, 02:24:00 PM »
created by man, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanesco_broccoli  IMO, regular broccoli, branch fractal, romanesco spiral fractal.  up to natural selection to see if one is "better".  Humans like the romanesco so it will get selected for at least in gardens.
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Online Azdgari

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Re: The Amazing Incredible Broccoflower
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2012, 04:18:32 PM »
What's unlikely about a fractal pattern?  They happen all the time in nature.
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Online Graybeard

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Re: The Amazing Incredible Broccoflower
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2012, 04:51:50 PM »
I ate one of them a week or so back (not all of it, my wife and one of my sons helped.) It is noticeably more tender and friable than broccoli, when it is cooked, you can easily crush it with your tongue, but lacks a definitive taste - I'll be sticking with broccoli.

It is a remarkable plant to look at. I suspect that the whorls are in some sort of Fibonacci sequence. Fibonacci (or near-Fibonacci) sequences are very common in plants; I was reading a study the other day of common English trees and the way their branches are arranged around the trunk as the tree grows.

The question is not, how does a "perfect" mutation such as this ever come about" as "perfect" is subjective and every other flower is "perfect" if you consider only its function as a flower.
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Offline inveni0

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Re: The Amazing Incredible Broccoflower
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2012, 09:03:11 PM »
I ate one of them a week or so back (not all of it, my wife and one of my sons helped.) It is noticeably more tender and friable than broccoli, when it is cooked, you can easily crush it with your tongue, but lacks a definitive taste - I'll be sticking with broccoli.

It is a remarkable plant to look at. I suspect that the whorls are in some sort of Fibonacci sequence. Fibonacci (or near-Fibonacci) sequences are very common in plants; I was reading a study the other day of common English trees and the way their branches are arranged around the trunk as the tree grows.

The question is not, how does a "perfect" mutation such as this ever come about" as "perfect" is subjective and every other flower is "perfect" if you consider only its function as a flower.

That's an interesting hypothesis.  I've never seen a fractal pattern like this in any plant or animal.  Are there "patterns" that we can observe in how things grow?  Sure.  But like this?  I find it to be another marvelous aspect of the evolution of the universe.  Proof that numbers rule all.  Like how Saturn's rings are only about 30 feet thick on average.  That's just unfeasibly perfect.

Reality is so much more interesting than god(s).
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Online Azdgari

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Re: The Amazing Incredible Broccoflower
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2012, 09:12:03 PM »
Precambrian organisms whose entire body-plan is fractal:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangeomorph
Quote
Rangeomorphs consist of branching "frond" elements, each a few centimetres long, each of which is itself composed of many smaller branching tubes held up by a semi-rigid organic skeleton. This self-similar structure proceeds over four levels of fractality, and could have been formed using fairly simple developmental patterns.

They went extinct around 542 million years ago.
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Offline Omen

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Re: The Amazing Incredible Broccoflower
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2012, 09:24:23 PM »
What perfect mutation? The "spikes" pointing in every direction, all of which are bent?

In terms of a naturally occurring fractal pattern, it is as close to perfect as any rational being could ask.

This isn't a mystery ( and it is not perfect, perfect implies a qualification that is irrational or impossible to define ):

https://www.google.com/search?q=patterns+in+nature&hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&hs=jW7&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=fflb&prmd=imvnsb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=EOyhT-TCCKbS2QXrytz-CA&ved=0CD8QsAQ&biw=1920&bih=929

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-organization

The most robust and unambiguous examples[1] of self-organizing systems are from the physics of non-equilibrium processes. Self-organization is also relevant in chemistry, where it has often been taken as being synonymous with self-assembly. The concept of self-organization is central to the description of biological systems, from the subcellular to the ecosystem level. There are also cited examples of "self-organizing" behaviour found in the literature of many other disciplines, both in the natural sciences and the social sciences such as economics or anthropology. Self-organization has also been observed in mathematical systems such as cellular automata.
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