Author Topic: Is there a supernatural?  (Read 9147 times)

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Offline JesusHChrist

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #319 on: August 22, 2012, 02:57:17 PM »
Certainly you would not want 12lbs monkeys crawling out of your anus, that would really painful lol. 

Don't be so sure. I might like that sort of thing.
Love the Christian. Hate the delusion.

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Offline Azdgari

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #320 on: August 22, 2012, 03:03:44 PM »
Radiology is not to the exact.

...it's not to the exact what?  Sentences are your friend.  Did you mean to say "Radiology is not an exact science"?

The age of earth according to radiology is not fact, but theory.

Similarly, the age of your car is not fact, but theory.  It would be helpful if you restricted your usage of terms to those whose meanings you know.  "Fact" and "theory", for example, aren't concepts you appear to understand yet.

Miracles do happen, my brother had flat feet his whole life, he was prayed over by the touching of hands, we checked his feet, he received arches. My testimony over yours.

I once saw Jesus appear and curse someone with cancer, then disappear.

My testimony over yours.  See how (not) useful that is?

The rules of earth are fabricated by theory and assumption. Study and research results in truth, however the whole process is done by trial and error.

The irony of typing this on a computer is likely lost on you, but it's given me a few chuckles at least.

I can't prove to you you're wrong and you can't prove to me you're right. Life is conditioned by circumstance and we know what we have witnessed.

No you don't.
Unless you are Scarlett Johansason or something.  lol  i'd like to punish her with  my baby.  lol

Online pianodwarf

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #321 on: August 22, 2012, 03:06:56 PM »
Radiology is not to the exact.

Did someone say it was?

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The age of earth according to radiology is not fact, but theory.

It's still better supported than the creation myth from the bible.

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Miracles do happen, my brother had flat feet his whole life, he was prayed over by the touching of hands, we checked his feet, he received arches. My testimony over yours.

Your brother must be very happy.  Why don't you and your brother tell these children how Yahweh answered your prayers and is ignoring theirs:



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The rules of earth are fabricated by theory and assumption. Study and research results in truth, however the whole process is done by trial and error.

Yes, and...?

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I can't prove to you you're wrong and you can't prove to me you're right.

About what?

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Life is conditioned by circumstance and we know what we have witnessed.

Actually, we don't.  Stories like your brother's feet are anecdotal at best and rarely hold up under inquiry.  For example, if I were to ask you to provide medical documentation that your brother's feet had un-flattened themselves, you wouldn't be able to provide any, would you?  That's how it almost always is in such cases.  I've lost count of how many believers we've had coming thru here claiming medical miracles -- even up to and including amputees getting their limbs back, no less -- and then when they're asked to put up or shut up, they always choose to shut up.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #322 on: August 22, 2012, 03:15:02 PM »
Radiology is not to the exact.
Yes it is - even if the "radiology" (or whatever you want to call dating by radioactive decay) is 100 time out, then the earth is still millions of years old. As it is, with the decay rates of many isotopes, dating is a pretty exact science. Go and do some research instead of believing ignarant preachers
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The age of earth according to radiology is not fact, but theory.
No - it is a fact. Another fact is that you know nothing of this.

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Miracles do happen, my brother had flat feet his whole life, he was prayed over by the touching of hands, we checked his feet, he received arches. My testimony over yours.
So God favours some random American guy over the thousands of starving people in refugee camps all over the world? Yeah... like I'd believe that that was proof of God.

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The rules of earth are fabricated by theory and assumption.
No, they are testable and repatable - unlike god.
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Study and research results in truth, however the whole process is done by trial and error.
What do you think that means?
Trial and error tells me that if I hold a stone and let it go, it falls to the ground - the rule is that stones fall to the ground: what's wrong with that?

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I can't prove to you you're wrong and you can't prove to me you're right.
I have just shown that you know absolutely nothing about physics or math.
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Life is conditioned by circumstance and we know what we have witnessed.
What does that mean? Does it mean that the half-life of Caesium 137 is altered because you don't know what it is or that you are having a bad time?

Science works whether you believe it or not and  it also works even if, like you, you don't understand it.

Sir,
you seriously need an education.
RELIGION, n. A daughter of Hope and Fear, explaining to Ignorance the nature of the Unknowable. Ambrose Bierce

Offline volt

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #323 on: August 22, 2012, 03:19:17 PM »
Unfortunately he went out to massachusetts for college, but If I could have the medical records faxed to you, I'd do it. Infact I'll get it in the works if you need the documentation. Keep in touch with me and I'll have the document provided to you. You can reach me at James Cavalieri on Fb. Rochester Ny. I'm wearing the blue.  My statement will last the test. I have others as well, the same thing was done for my neighbor, as well as breast cancer relieved from a church congregate.

To graybeard;

I had the information relayed to me by my friend whose been in the geologist field for over 10 years. I myself have not researched this information, but only relayed what I was taught. Unfortunately I did make a bold statement without research of my own to back it up, but I also know he would not lie to me. In the end, it's still one's words over another. I apologize for making a statement without being well informed.

Trial and error results in mistakes, there are mistakes to be made in the fabrication of the laws of the earth. Not at any one time was the laws of earth illustrated by man entirely correct, so whose to say we do not have errors now.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 03:29:46 PM by volt »

Offline Dante

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #324 on: August 22, 2012, 03:24:56 PM »
Is there a world renowned method to discovering the supernatural? Religion is often referred to as such a method. Most have tried, many did not receive their answers. Why? Because their lack of faith derives from the inability to see, but I have seen.  

Bold mine. Now, forgive me if I don't understand what you were saying, but it seems to contradict this.

You should also note, that although I'm a minister's son, I've had years of my life where I wasn't a Jesus freak. So I've been on both sides of the fence. In any case;

 Previously that night, 6:00 p.m. I told my mother God was just a fantasy.

Can you explain it to me please? Explain how you didn't have any faith at all, yet you were still able to see? And go slow, I'm not very smart.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline screwtape

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #325 on: August 22, 2012, 03:35:39 PM »
I go about my days in peace knowing the Lord is with me. That is my belief, just as you have beliefs screwtape.

Sure, sure.  Only, my beliefs are statistically verified and falsifiable.  And just for accuracy, you only think the lord is with you.

Tell me this, did nothing else but circumstance convince otherwise?

?  I'm not sure what you are asking. What do you mean by "circumstance"?

No one could confirm or deny turtles all the way down.

Really? You could not deny it by, you know, not finding any giant space turtle?

...but I have seen.

No, you haven't.  You had one scary, unexplained and highly ambiguous event and attributed it to jesus H.  I imagine if you lived in Utar Pradesh you might attribute it to Brahman.  Or if you lived in Yemen you might attribute it to a djinn.  Or if you lived in Mexico you might attribute it to a chupacabra.  It's all cultural.  Your brain is a pattern finding machine that is looking to assign agency - that is, a personality with will, like your own - to unexplained events.  That is the primitive, reptillian core of your brain at work.  You should modernize about 200,000 years.  Catch up with the rest of us.

When it comes down to it, if you want real result in a supernatural way, you have to actively press in. Begin to test the boundaries of what the spiritual realm could respond to. Just keep pressing in. Do whatever it takes need you.

Sorry, none of that makes any sense to me. I have no idea what you are trying to tell me.  If I were to guess it would be something like "If you want to find the supernatural, don't stop looking and eventually you will find it".  If so, that is unfortunate.  Because that is how anyone could convince themselves of any kind of woo.

I would never be able say supernatural beings don't exist.

As a rationalist, I have to look at that sentence as one of humanity's biggest failures.  In order to learn new things and have better understanding, you have to be willing to admit some things you believe are wrong and update them with better information.  To say "I believe X and nothing will change my mind", is to doom myself to stagnation and ignorance. 


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Offline volt

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #326 on: August 22, 2012, 03:45:04 PM »
To Dante;

I was simply stating that lack of faith in an individual typically is the result of the inability to see the supernatural. Although many have lacked faith or belief because of the inability to see the supernatural, I did, therefore how does that condition my faith as opposed to then.

I didn't have any faith in God due to the lack of evidence. Although I can't offer anyone evidence that will not be challenged, I can give out my statement and there in lies the difference between the believer and the non-believer. Seeing is believing. I thought the teachings of Jesus were fake and the entire bible was fabricated to maintain a law code.

To screwtape;

circumstance meaning, the condition you are in, the present situation that occurred, resulting change.

No one could confirm or deny turtles all the way down, because no one had yet left the earth's atmosphere to check. Once that circumstance or situation occurred, the turtles theory was put to rest.

And this ambiguous event is left by say, unexplained forces? Say, the supernatural?

When you hear the wind, do you question it's existence? The same was for my experience with the supernatural. I saw it, I heard it.

To Graybeard;

I would also like to apologize for my remark, I admit I had no background knowledge on the subject of radiology. I only put my two cents in based on what I was taught. I will be keeping such manors out of the thread. I sincerely enjoy the healthy discussions we're having and in no way desire to start heated arguments. Especially ones I have no idea about. lol For I would be unable to maintain a coherent discussion. Thanks everyone.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 03:56:53 PM by volt »

Offline screwtape

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #327 on: August 22, 2012, 03:56:21 PM »
circumstance meaning, the condition you are in, the present situation that occurred, resulting change.

Then your statement - did nothing else but the condition you are in convince otherwise - is kind of a gimme.  The condition you are in is all you have. I used to believe in god.  I learned things.  Those things made it impossible to continue to believe or to continue to pretend I believed.

No one could confirm or deny turtles all the way down, because...

Irrelevant.  No one could confirm it, so it was pointless to believe.  If no one in 10,000 years found the turtle's shell, why believe in the turtle in the first place?  Any crazy animal can be imagined that cannot be disproved.  That does not mean they should be believed or held as something worthy of consideration.

And this ambiguous event is left by say, unexplained forces? Say, the supernatural?

?  I have no idea what your sentence means.  Kindly define "supernatural". 

When you hear the wind, do you question it's existence? The same was for my experience with the supernatural. I saw it, I heard it.

You keep doing that.  You had an experience.  You cannot explain it.  That does not mean it was necessarily the supernatural.  It just means you don't know what it was.  It is like a UFO.  The U means "unidentified".  It was unexplained, not necessarily an interstellar spacecraft. 

Are you reading my posts?  Because my points seem to be sailing right by you.


edit: believe --> mean
« Last Edit: August 23, 2012, 07:21:47 AM by screwtape »
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Offline Dante

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #328 on: August 22, 2012, 03:59:39 PM »
I was simply stating that lack of faith in an individual typically is the result of the inability to see the supernatural.

Seems to happen to alot of us, huh? One would think that an omnipotent, omniscient, and omni benevolent being that desires a relationship with his creation, because it loves us sooooo much, would be giving more signs that would lead his creation to faith.

And being omniscient, it would know exactly what each and every one of us needs in order to see, right? And, being omnipotent, there would be nothing standing in it's way of doing so, right? Then why is it, do you suppose, that there are so many people on this planet unable to see your god's supernatural presence?

I think I have the answer, but I'd really like to hear yours.

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I didn't have any faith in God due to the lack of evidence. Although I can't offer anyone evidence that will not be challenged, I can give out my statement and there in lies the difference between the believer and the non-believer. Seeing is believing. I thought the teachings of Jesus were fake and the entire bible was fabricated to maintain a law code.

Then it seems odd that you would call to Jesus to help you see.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline volt

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #329 on: August 22, 2012, 04:03:36 PM »
Well although it may be unidentified, it still exists, what category would that be placed in? Ghosts, Spirits or am I simply to say I experienced something I can't understand? In the end, it remains true that something unnatural occurred. Therefore I consider it supernatural, which is highly relevant to the thread. Am I the only one who has experienced this? Certainly not in this world, I don't have to stretch the topic all the way to the Christian God, although I have and that is my belief, I simply began to post in this thread to talk about supernatural beings.

To dante;

I called out to Jesus due to instinct. I was raised amongst the Christian faith.

Offline Dante

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #330 on: August 22, 2012, 04:11:13 PM »
Well although it may be unidentified, it still exists, what category would that be placed in? Ghosts, Spirits or am I simply to say I experienced something I can't understand? In the end, it remains true that something unnatural occurred. Therefore I consider it supernatural, which is highly relevant to the thread. Am I the only one who has experienced this? Certainly not in this world, I don't have to stretch the topic all the way to the Christian God, although I have and that is my belief, I simply began to post in this thread to talk about supernatural beings.

See my take on it below.


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I called out to Jesus due to instinct. I was raised amongst the Christian faith.

Which explains fully why you took your as-yet unexplained event all the way to the xian god.

Of course, you were fooling around with the wiring under the dash, correct? And your car had a remote trunk release, correct? So, it seems to me that it'd be quite a bit more plausible that your fooling under the dash of your Bonnie could have activated a solenoid a time or 2, making clunking sounds, AND also popped the release on the trunk. Yet, you immediately attribute it to your god. Methinks your critical thinking skills are lacking.

And, you didn't answer my previous questions regarding the reasons your god doesn't make his presence a little more.....unambiguous. Could you please?
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #331 on: August 22, 2012, 04:12:21 PM »
Unfortunately he went out to massachusetts for college, but If I could have the medical records faxed to you, I'd do it. Infact I'll get it in the works if you need the documentation. Keep in touch with me and I'll have the document provided to you. You can reach me at James Cavalieri on Fb. Rochester Ny. I'm wearing the blue.  My statement will last the test. I have others as well, the same thing was done for my neighbor, as well as breast cancer relieved from a church congregate.

To graybeard;

I had the information relayed to me by my friend whose been in the geologist field for over 10 years. I myself have not researched this information, but only relayed what I was taught. Unfortunately I did make a bold statement without research of my own to back it up, but I also know he would not lie to me. In the end, it's still one's words over another. I apologize for making a statement without being well informed.
What exactly were you taught if I may ask?
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Trial and error results in mistakes, there are mistakes to be made in the fabrication of the laws of the earth. Not at any one time was the laws of earth illustrated by man entirely correct, so whose to say we do not have errors now.
When you say 'trial and error' I reinterpret that in my head as 'testing and validation'.  That's basically what the trial and error process is after all - trying your answer and seeing what goes wrong.

When presented with two answers to a question:
a) An answer arrived at through trial and error.
b) An answer arrived at through making things up.

I know which answer I'm going with.  I'm guessing that you'd go with the same answer, which means (a)I'm wrong and you have a different answer than I, (b)I'm wrong and that is not what you mean by trial and error, or (c)you're totally fine accepting made up answers.

I didn't have any faith in God due to the lack of evidence. Although I can't offer anyone evidence that will not be challenged, I can give out my statement and there in lies the difference between the believer and the non-believer. Seeing is believing. I thought the teachings of Jesus were fake and the entire bible was fabricated to maintain a law code.
I swear you just said that the difference between a believer and a non-believer is that a believer believes and a non-believer doesn't believe.

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I didn't have any faith in God due to the lack of evidence. Although I can't offer anyone evidence that will not be challenged, I can give out my statement and there in lies the difference between the believer and the non-believer. Seeing is believing. I thought the teachings of Jesus were fake and the entire bible was fabricated to maintain a law code.

Then it seems odd that you would call to Jesus to help you see.
Yeah his claim to being a non-believer seems pretty iffy to me.  Anakin's story of how he turned to the dark side in Episode III is substantially more convincing, which doesn't really bode well for me accepting his story as anything more than a fabrication on his part.  Volt, I accept that I could be wrong and you're being genuine, but it just doesn't seem that way.  Your story doesn't really jive.

I called out to Jesus due to instinct. I was raised amongst the Christian faith.
That's not helping me believe your story.  I'm not sure even instinct would cause me to call out to an entity that I do not believe exists.  Don't get me wrong, I say things like "Jesus H. Christ" all the bloody time, but I'm not actually making an exclamation to an entity called "Jesus H. Christ".  It's just a phonetically nice substitute for certain other exclamations that I use.

Are you reading my posts?  Because my points seem to be sailing right by you.
I see what you did there...

Offline volt

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #332 on: August 22, 2012, 04:21:28 PM »
Okay, two things Dante;

your original question, it's a good one and has definately been asked before. The reasons I believe He doesn't take care of everything, is because we have the free will to make our own decisions. Yup, it's the most coincidental answer, what else could I say? As for the kids in third world nations, I can't give you that answer either, but no one would question that about a God had he taken care of it Himself.

So the question is, why Doesn't daddy do everything? Because this home is ours and He gave us the responsibility to take care of it. When you move out of your home to live with your girlfriend or your wife, vice versa or w.e. Do you take care of the family yourself or does your daddy do it for you? Now just because you gotta do your own laundry now and provide food for yourselves, does that mean daddy doesn't love you? Not at all. We could ask and's, if's and but's to believers all we want or we could ask Him ourselves, say we did have a fraction of belief in Him.

Although playing with the wiring may very well have done so, I took a walk around the car to ensure the entire thing was fastened and locked. Again, when a trunk is popped open, say I did mess up something with the wiring, it wouldn't rise 3 feet in the air. It'd pop open a couple inches.

to jdawg;
I was taught that radiology was not to the exact digit. That the numbers are estimates and not accurate. Unfortunately that's all I've got, next time I'll do my homework, but I could certainly conversate with him and get the abundance of his reasoning behind it. I would likely be willing to share whatever substantial information he could provide to me. I have many beliefs I can grab from the bible that I'm itching to share with everyone, whether or not the community believes is not my concern, I think it'd be fun just to add to the quantity of theories this planet encompasses.

Lol I was just compared to Anakin. haha. Well, all I can say about my personal convictions with God, was that I believed from childhood to 16 and from 16 I was on and off until this occurred when I was 19.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 04:41:09 PM by volt »

Offline Dante

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #333 on: August 22, 2012, 05:03:48 PM »
Ah, so kids starving to death, thousands daily mind, have the means and free will to take care of themselves? How does that work?

And, on the subject, how does one have freewill, yet an omniscient being has a plan for each and every one of us? Is free will more powerful than your god?

Let's say I decide to give you a wedgie. Is that my free will at work, or is it all part of your god's plans for you?

Thanks for taking the time to engage us so far!
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline volt

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #334 on: August 22, 2012, 05:14:18 PM »
Yeah, that'd be a stretch of free will. The fact that several thousands are starving are not their own faults, but the lives they've been born in are a unfortunate circumstance. However, the world could do better to take care of our own. In a way, it falls on us.

God may very well have a plan routed out, however, that doesn't mean we'll listen to it.

Offline jdawg70

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #335 on: August 22, 2012, 05:15:00 PM »
to jdawg;
I was taught that radiology was not to the exact digit. That the numbers are estimates and not accurate. Unfortunately that's all I've got, next time I'll do my homework, but I could certainly conversate with him and get the abundance of his reasoning behind it. I would likely be willing to share whatever substantial information he could provide to me.
What numbers are we talking about here?  There's definitely some uncertainty involved to some aspect of the study of radiation (such as the uncertainty imposed by Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, or the uncertainty introduced with practical measurement), but whether or not they are pertinent to your claims of unreliability of radiometric dating is dependent on what those numbers relate to.
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I have many beliefs I can grab from the bible that I'm itching to share with everyone, whether or not the community believes is not my concern, I think it'd be fun just to add to the quantity of theories this planet encompasses.
Do you just want to, like, archive the various worldviews or something?  What I mean is, do you just want to throw stuff out there and ignore things like contradictory theories, demonstrably incorrect theories, unfalsifiable theories, and nonsensical theories?  Or do you want to do some level of analysis of these theories and attempt to make some manner of evaluation of the truth or fiction of those theories?  If the former, well, I frankly find Dungeons & Dragons to be kind of fun (in limited quantities), but I'm not interested in playing that here.  I'm interested in trying to get a better understanding of what's true in the reality.  If you're going with the latter, then be prepared to objectively back up these theories you add to the quantity of theories this planet encompasses.
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Lol I was just compared to Anakin. haha. Well, all I can say about my personal convictions with God, was that I believed from childhood to 16 and from 16 I was on and off until this occurred when I was 19.
Careful - it was more like I was comparing you to George Lucas.  As a writer.  With that in mind, all insults you throw at me in your next post will be expected and understandable.


***No.  I'm totally not a nerd.  Totally not.

Offline volt

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #336 on: August 22, 2012, 05:26:50 PM »
He believes the numbers vary in the millions. There's nothing else I could provide until I have answers. Sorry. :/ That doesn't entirely relate to supernatural beings anyway.

According to the Greek Old Testament LXX of 321 BC - 14xx AD.
The scriptures refer to all the serpents as tannin which translates to Dragon in Modern English. The term Dinosaur wasn't made until 1821AD, naturally you could assume the term for dinosaurs in the days of old were, Dragon. How many nations passed down the tales of Dragons throughout history? More than I can count. This is the type of stuff I wish to discuss, with proof written in the bible throughout history. Which also doesn't relate to this thread.. :P

I will definately not insult you, not intentionally that is. You giving me the time to hear my statements is a selfless act enough.

Offline Dante

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #337 on: August 22, 2012, 05:33:14 PM »
Yeah, that'd be a stretch of free will.

No, that'd be a stretch of your underpants, atomic style.;)

Seriously, I  would appreciate your answer to that question. Thanks.

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The fact that several thousands are starving are not their own faults, but the lives they've been born in are a unfortunate circumstance. However, the world could do better to take care of our own. In a way, it falls on us.

So the better question is not "why won't sky daddy do everything", but rather "why won't sky daddy do anything".
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline volt

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #338 on: August 22, 2012, 05:46:44 PM »
Perhaps He desires to affect individual lives rather the mass at a given time. We've all heard of the revelation and perhaps life in itself, is a test of our worthiness to know a greater being. I think that's why the bible emphasizes faith.

Life is kinda like a test, will you survive or will you die? Will you ascend or descend? Or is it more likely that the world exists by accident. The fact that our bodies are so intricate, that our own stomach lining regenerates itself every three days to prevent our stomach acids from killing us. How could the world be so intricate from nothingness. Let alone the entire universe. Then I experienced this supernatural event and I was inspired for answers beyond the common knowledge of man. Is it possible that a God truly does exist and has communicated with us throughout history.

Offline Dante

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #339 on: August 22, 2012, 05:58:19 PM »
Perhaps He desires to affect individual lives rather the mass at a given time. We've all heard of the revelation and perhaps life in itself, is a test of our worthiness to know a greater being. I think that's why the bible emphasizes faith.

That makes your god quite the prick then, if you believe in hell and Jesus, doesn't it? I mean, no evidence to us atheists, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, pagans, etc. means your loving, omniscient, omnipotent god can't find a way to keep most of his most beloved creation from eternal torture? Not really worthy of worship, if you ask me.

I presume you'll get to my atomic wedgie question next. Please and thank you.
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Offline volt

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #340 on: August 22, 2012, 06:09:19 PM »
Could you reiterate your wedgie question, I thought I answered it.

If a God truly exists and has communicated to us throughout History and let's say we take another leap forward to consider the Christian God the True Deity. According to Him;

Matthew 7:13 NIV(2007)
"You can enter God's Kingdom only through the narrow gate. The highway to hell is broad, and its gate is wide for the many who choose that way."

So if He were to make that statement, it's defined clearly the majority of the world will not ascend. Think of it this way, is your dad a prick if He punishes you for disobeying Him? He's being a father. Yeah, it sucks, but considering if a Deity truly exists and I think at this point of the discussion it's more likely that one does and if it's the Christian Deity, this is pretty much what falls in line as a test.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 06:11:33 PM by volt »

Offline Dante

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #341 on: August 22, 2012, 06:24:23 PM »
Ah, but you see, discipline and punishment are not the key to the problem. ETERNAL TORTURE is the problem. You cannot justify eternal punishment for finite transgressions.

And the wedgie question was an attempt to get you to think about the obvious paradox between omniscience and free will. Care to take another shot at it?

Not to be rude, but the babies are done marinating, and I must get them on the grill before my godless friends arrive.

TTFN!
Actually it doesn't. One could conceivably be all-powerful but not exceptionally intelligent.

Online pianodwarf

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #342 on: August 22, 2012, 06:29:51 PM »
Think of it this way, is your dad a prick if He punishes you for disobeying Him? He's being a father.

A good father punishes his child in an attempt to discourage behavior that is undesirable in some way so as to help the child mature into a responsible adult.  This in no way correlates to the doctrine of hell in Christianity because hell is not corrective in nature.
[On how kangaroos could have gotten back to Australia after the flood]:  Don't kangaroos skip along the surface of the water? --Kenn

Offline Gohavesomefun

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #343 on: August 22, 2012, 06:31:00 PM »
Why is it we humans feel the need to create these things? Are these people unaware just how immensley beautiful, complex and powerful the universe is?

I'm quite sure the supernatural does exist in one place. Our minds.

Often enough, we either believe what we want to or what our minds need to. Sometimes that need is a measure of psychological well being, a mere way of coping with some of the difficult aspects of life.

That is my opinion anyhow.
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Offline volt

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #344 on: August 22, 2012, 06:48:54 PM »
Everyone has very valid statements in their own right, but how could one truly believe there are no beings beyond us? Especially a creator, one who has unlimited capabilities beyond our imagination.

Is not the universe itself an embodiment of unlimited capabilities, beyond our imagination? If something we know exists has unlimited capabilities, does that not beg to question it's very existence? Although the universe can be examined, would not the creator of the universe mystify us even further?

Offline Gohavesomefun

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #345 on: August 22, 2012, 06:53:14 PM »
Everyone has very valid statements in their own right, but how could one truly believe there are no beings beyond us? Especially a creator, one who has unlimited capabilities beyond our imagination.

Is not the universe itself an embodiment of unlimited capabilities, beyond our imagination? If something we know exists has unlimited capabilities, does that not beg to question it's very existence? Although the universe can be examined, would not the creator of the universe mystify us even further?
Given what you said about the universe and our capabilities, do we NEED a supernatural? May seem like a strange question as surely if there is/isn't a supernatural the need is irrelevant. However, we obviously have a human need to create such a thing as supernatural beliefs exist.

So what do you think, do we need a supernatural?

I think some people have a hard time explaining things and it's easy to give an 'unexplainable explanation' as in most matters of conversation; it voids that person from backing up their viewpoint.
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Offline volt

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #346 on: August 22, 2012, 07:11:54 PM »
If you claim you need no such things. Then consider this;

Why do we have ants? They're apart of our ecosystem. I should think it obvious that they are simply another piece of life. They simply, like us, co-exist within the fibers of the universe. Ghosts/Demons are considered supernatural, why? Because they are not bound by our physics and laws, they are a mystery upon mankind, and yet, they're notorious. Why so often would you hear of them? Is that religions fault? Remember, although religion may or may not be your forte, the bible is the most notorious book of all. A strong monument of
History. I would argue that History has the same level of importance as Science, if not more so. What did our ancestors know that we did not? Now just because they lived before us, does not mean they were blubbering idiots.

To Azdgari;
Unless of course we did know the spiritual entities, only society rejects whatever truth that may be, I.E., a loving nurturing God.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2012, 07:24:16 PM by volt »

Offline Azdgari

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Re: Is there a supernatural?
« Reply #347 on: August 22, 2012, 07:19:53 PM »
Something not bound by naturalistic laws is 100% unpredictable.  It has no describable attributes at all, for such coherent descriptions would force it to be natural.

A truly supernatural entity, if it could interact with our universe, would end up destroying our universe.
Unless you are Scarlett Johansason or something.  lol  i'd like to punish her with  my baby.  lol