Author Topic: Welcome to the Shelter Theist  (Read 861 times)

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Offline junebug72

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Welcome to the Shelter Theist
« on: January 23, 2015, 05:20:49 PM »
This is a great place to start.  Trust me. 

There's no shame the only difference is certain members that are quick tempered are not allowed and there can only be 2-3 responses at a time. 

I totally support this shelter for new theist.

Have a great Day! 

when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change

Offline b.a.worldchanger

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Re: Welcome to the Shelter Theist
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2015, 03:20:52 AM »
This is a great place to start.  Trust me. 

There's no shame the only difference is certain members that are quick tempered are not allowed and there can only be 2-3 responses at a time. 

I totally support this shelter for new theist.

Have a great Day!

This sounds like a place I should probably start...as, I simply don't have the time to be overwhelmed by too many replies at once.  Time is limited for me, so hoping there will actually be some discussions to participate in here. 

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Welcome to the Shelter Theist
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2015, 01:03:00 PM »
I enjoyed using the Shelter when I was a theist.  I had a couple mildly interesting threads.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline b.a.worldchanger

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Re: Welcome to the Shelter Theist
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2015, 02:01:38 AM »
Lori, so you came here a theist and left an atheist or agnostic?

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Welcome to the Shelter Theist
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2015, 12:41:42 PM »
Yes, I realized there was no god showing up in my life at a time when it was crucial for a god to be there if there was one.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline Boots

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Re: Welcome to the Shelter Theist
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2015, 01:59:51 PM »
Yes, I realized there was no god showing up in my life at a time when it was crucial for a god to be there if there was one.

YMMV, but I tend to think that it all comes down to expectations.  If you are predisposed to believing in a deity, you will have certain expectactions on how that deity interacts with your life.  "God never gives you more than you can handle" is a common phrase I've heard among theists, the implication being you might have some difficulty, but there's some higher reason for it.  And thus, you are more accepting/forgiving if you don't get "help."  Further, you will most likely attribute any help you get, to your deity.

I believe that non-theists (or, at least some) see that expectation as something of a sham.  It's an explanation/rationalization of a theist's faith, an attempt to explain away "why bad things happen to good people" in a wya that allows for the theist to maintian faith.  A non-theist is much more likely, IMHO, to attribute personal difficulties to either bad choices, or "sh1t happens."  And they attribute help they get directly to whomever is providing the help.

I don't mean to put words in her mouth, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that Lori's experiences were at least somewhat indicative of this phenomenon...when the realization hits that "hey, an omnipotent being should be able to give me SOME help here..." that's when faith can start to crumble.
...religion is simply tribalism with a side order of philosophical wankery, and occasionally a baseball bat to smash...anyone who doesn't show...deference to the tribe's chosen totem.

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To not believe in god is to know that it falls to us to make the world a better place.

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Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Welcome to the Shelter Theist
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2015, 02:13:52 PM »

I don't mean to put words in her mouth, but I'd bet dollars to donuts that Lori's experiences were at least somewhat indicative of this phenomenon...when the realization hits that "hey, an omnipotent being should be able to give me SOME help here..." that's when faith can start to crumble.

That pretty much nails it.  I was to the point where I had pretty much given up on the bible and my god was all SPAG anyway.  So, when he did not step up to the plate...  he had to be traded for the reality that he was just like Santa and Easter Bunny.  It is much better now knowing that I am not being either punished or abandoned every time something bad happens to me.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline b.a.worldchanger

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Re: Welcome to the Shelter Theist
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2015, 02:52:06 PM »
Thanks Boots and Lori for the additional explanation.  I have often wondered where Theists come up with the idea that "God won't give you more than you can handle."  That certainly isn't found anywhere in Scripture, but seems to be common in Western Christian circles and Evangelical Christianity.  It's hard to make this claim in light of the fact that nearly all the original disciples were martyred, some brutally.  Stephen, one of the first deacons, was stoned just a few chapters later in Acts.  Jesus himself suffered and died on a cross, though he was without sin.  Paul was imprisoned, beaten to the point of death, and eventually martyred.  Christians in the Middle East are beheaded for their faith, including women and children.  My friend, Saeed, sits in prison in Iran, apart from his wife Nagmeh and their two kids, for nothing other than his belief in Christ.  Those all sound like more than "I" can handle, and Christianity is not a replacement for suffering.  In fact, Jesus, Peter and Paul all affirm that living a life in pursuit of Christ will result in persecution, at some level. 

I appreciate your honesty and explanation, it sounds like it must have been a pretty difficult season in life.

Offline jetson

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Re: Welcome to the Shelter Theist
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2015, 06:24:43 PM »
...[snip]...

In fact, Jesus, Peter and Paul all affirm that living a life in pursuit of Christ will result in persecution, at some level. 


I'm very happy that I am not living a life in pursuit of Christ Jesus! The sad part, to me anyway, is that Jesus was probably a common street preacher with a message he felt was important enough to evangelize, and here we are thousands of years later watching people suffer in his name. Men like Jesus were likely a very common site during that time. Too bad, really.


Offline Mr. Blackwell

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Re: Welcome to the Shelter Theist
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2015, 09:20:35 PM »
  So, when he did not step up to the plate...  he had to be traded for the reality that he was just like Santa and Easter Bunny.  It is much better now knowing that I am not being either punished or abandoned every time something bad happens to me.

I decided a long time ago that I wouldn't present to my kids the Easter Bunny or Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy as real. My wife vetoed that plan. She rationalized that Santa Claus and company were an essential part of a normal and wonderfully magical childhood. She did not want our kids to be ostracized at school for not believing in the fairy tales. She also did not want our children to be the ones to burst some other parents' bubble for their kids. 

As tradition would have it, Santa Clause gave the best gifts. I became jealous but that is not important. It wasn't a serious jealousy, just a pretend one. One that I could joke about. What I can't joke about and it broke my heart, was last Christmas we were financially strapped for cash. More so than usual. We were only able to afford $150 for three girls. Any idea of gifts for ourselves were scrapped. Subsequently they didn't get anything big or fancy or shiny from Santa. Don't get me wrong, they always get a ton of gifts from their grandparents, aunts and uncles and extended friends and family. They need for nothing and want for very little. This is not a sob story.

Be that as it may, one of my children's closest cousin (both in relativity and age) got a fabulous gift from Santa. I over heard my middle child asking her older sister why their cousin got what she wanted from Santa but they didn't. My eldest calmly explained to her little sister that perhaps it was because they weren't very good that year.

I was seething. Still am a little bit because my wife still refuses to let me expose the charade. You see, my children are very humble and appreciative of what they have. They know that we don't have a lot of money and they are okay with that. They understand that. They don't hold that against us because they see us constantly working to make things better, to improve our situation. What they don't understand is why Santa couldn't afford to get them the perfect gift. So they rationalize the reality of the situation based on a pack of innocent lies and blame themselves.

I've said at many times on this forum and I will say it again. FUCK SANTA CLAUSE.




Every night I flirt with death and every morning I wake up disappointed.

Offline LoriPinkAngel

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Re: Welcome to the Shelter Theist
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2015, 09:45:42 PM »
Even when I believed Jesus was real I refused to tell my son that Santa, Easter Bunny, etc were.  I told him they were stories and traditions.  He still got gifts labelled from Santa and Easter Baskets.  He was instructed that some mommies and daddies liked to pretend that they were real so don't say anything to other kids about them not being imaginary.
It doesn't make sense to let go of something you've had for so long.  But it also doesn't make sense to hold on when there's actually nothing there.

Offline The Gawd

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Re: Welcome to the Shelter Theist
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2015, 05:18:51 AM »
Even when I believed Jesus was real I refused to tell my son that Santa, Easter Bunny, etc were.  I told him they were stories and traditions.  He still got gifts labelled from Santa and Easter Baskets.  He was instructed that some mommies and daddies liked to pretend that they were real so don't say anything to other kids about them not being imaginary.
I do that with Jesus/God with my daughter... kind of. I asked her questions that allowed here to reasonably come to a conclusion about god, then told her that she need not explain it to other kids...

But similar to Blackwell's story the whole church thing infuriates me. My daughter struggles with self confidence and I have to make conscious efforts to get her to be more sure of herself and confident in herself. I cant allow her to go to churches where they undoubtedly tell her she is a lowly sinner and worthless without belief in this character who has no proof. She has done nothing to deserve such treatment, and neither have most people. This is what I am supposed to protect her against.