unite against the war on women April 28

[Astreja]

Before we start dealing with problems like domestic abuse that require a huge input but relatively small output, we need to exhaust other higher yielding opportunities.

I prefer to save victims of domestic abuse, and support no-kill animal shelters, and give money to medical research.

You can go save the bees if you want to, Kindred, but don't expect Me to drop what I'm doing.  Ain't gonna happen.

[kindred]

Before we start dealing with problems like domestic abuse that require a huge input but relatively small output, we need to exhaust other higher yielding opportunities.

I prefer to save victims of domestic abuse, and support no-kill animal shelters, and give money to medical research.

You can go save the bees if you want to, Kindred, but don't expect Me to drop what I'm doing.  Ain't gonna happen.

What if I told you, I prefer to donate to african charities? African charities are inefficient and end up actually doing more harm than good by paying for the regime of the bad leaders and wrecking what was once a stable economy. I'd do it because it feels good. Just send money, feel good and don't care about the results.

What if every politival leader did the same as you, allocating resources not to where it would produce the most good but to places that touch his heart? What now?

[Astreja]

What if I told you, I prefer to donate to african charities? African charities are inefficient and end up actually doing more harm than good by paying for the regime of the bad leaders and wrecking what was once a stable economy. I'd do it because it feels good. Just send money, feel good and don't care about the results.

I actually don't have a problem with it.  It's your money, not Mine.

What if every politival leader did the same as you, allocating resources not to where it would produce the most good but to places that touch his heart? What now?

But that's just it -- I'm a private citizen goddess, not a political leader. [1]  If My local government wants to apportion part of its budget to bee-saving research, that's great.  I'll still be dropping coins into the "Support Your Local Cat Shelter" tin at the cash register, *and* supporting the bee cause as well.

As I said, I don't believe in a scarcity mentality and think that we can support all deserving causes.

I'd also like to point out that piling up mass quantities of cash for a particular organization isn't always the best use of the money.  It takes time to recruit and train researchers, or to  lay the groundwork for a series of experiments, or to test and deploy tentative solutions.  An appropriately-sized and steady cash flow will free up monies for other projects and still get the work done.

1.	Had My fill of politics after spending 2½ years as Queen of Earth, only to have Dubya invade Iraq on *My* holiday.  *Harrumph*  So I abdicated in favour of Auntie Tiamat, who is currently In Charge Here.

[kindred]

What if I told you, I prefer to donate to african charities? African charities are inefficient and end up actually doing more harm than good by paying for the regime of the bad leaders and wrecking what was once a stable economy. I'd do it because it feels good. Just send money, feel good and don't care about the results.

I actually don't have a problem with it.  It's your money, not Mine.

What if every politival leader did the same as you, allocating resources not to where it would produce the most good but to places that touch his heart? What now?

But that's just it -- I'm a private citizen goddess, not a political leader. [1]  If My local government wants to apportion part of its budget to bee-saving research, that's great.  I'll still be dropping coins into the "Support Your Local Cat Shelter" tin at the cash register, *and* supporting the bee cause as well.

As I said, I don't believe in a scarcity mentality and think that we can support all deserving causes.

I'd also like to point out that piling up mass quantities of cash for a particular organization isn't always the best use of the money.  It takes time to recruit and train researchers, or to  lay the groundwork for a series of experiments, or to test and deploy tentative solutions.  An appropriately-sized and steady cash flow will free up monies for other projects and still get the work done.

1.	Had My fill of politics after spending 2½ years as Queen of Earth, only to have Dubya invade Iraq on *My* holiday.  *Harrumph*  So I abdicated in favour of Auntie Tiamat, who is currently In Charge Here.

Well that is unfair. I could go about helping efficiently and actually creating tangible results and the guy who contributed nothing and actually worsened problem but had the best of intentions gets the same amount of credit and recognition.

F@ck that shit. Its the same everywhere. You actually do something to help a group and another guy comes in with just good intentions and f@cks shit up and he still upstages you. Whether it is a team sport, a frat or a college org, its the same.

Screw this, screw the rules of rational discourse. Screw the the rules of politeness. Barely anybody ever reciprocates, anyway. There is just no winning by doing good. Might as well be an ass.

[Astreja]

I could go about helping efficiently and actually creating tangible results and the guy who contributed nothing and actually worsened problem but had the best of intentions gets the same amount of credit and recognition.

F@ck that shit. Its the same everywhere. You actually do something to help a group and another guy comes in with just good intentions and f@cks shit up and he still upstages you.

Well, if the project is a worthwhile one, it doesn't actually matter if one is "upstaged" or who gets the credit for what.    Concentrate on the results without worrying about someone else getting the credit.  It's nice to be applauded, but it's better still to know you did good work.  My $0.02 CDN.

[jeremy0]

I could go about helping efficiently and actually creating tangible results and the guy who contributed nothing and actually worsened problem but had the best of intentions gets the same amount of credit and recognition.

F@ck that shit. Its the same everywhere. You actually do something to help a group and another guy comes in with just good intentions and f@cks shit up and he still upstages you.

Well, if the project is a worthwhile one, it doesn't actually matter if one is "upstaged" or who gets the credit for what.    Concentrate on the results without worrying about someone else getting the credit.  It's nice to be applauded, but it's better still to know you did good work.  My $0.02 CDN.

Astreja:  Yes, yes, yes!  This is the exact correct way to see it.  I don't care who does it, I don't care who is actually right, I just want x problem to be solved.  Sometimes I'm involved in stuff, I never get credit, you never knew it was me.  I prefer it that way.. 

Yet I applaud the people for having the nads for doing things right and actually listening, instead of looking at things like saving lives, progressing society, and making real changes as a method of self-fulfillment.  It should be satisfactory to know people at least give a s### about it, just enough, to make a difference.

And every time I see the difference - I don't care if I told the guys to shove a bear up their pipe, if somebody else had a better answer so-be-it.  It got done.  We did it.  That's what matters.  Nobody is 100% correct at all times.  Yes, we can learn from what other people are doing, every day. 

I've been a programmer for only 7 years; I know better than people much higher up the ladder than me at times, and at other times, yeah, they know better than I do.  These sorts of things should be seen as a shared progress, not a forum for you to get a stamp of approval and a medal.  I say, shove the medals up your asses - we have real work to do - and that's all of our Jobs...

[nogodsforme]

You sometimes do things because it is the right thing to do. Not because someone will reward you in some immediate way, or because it will dramatically change the world. You give an older man or overburdened mom a seat on the bus. You take in your neighbor's mail when they are out of town. You donate blood. You recycle. You send money to Planned Parenthood or volunteer at the animal shelter. You consider others instead of/in addition to yourself.

Maybe it will make the world a better place. Maybe not. But if you do not do those things, the world will be a worse place. Guaranteed.

[Astreja]

Astreja:  Yes, yes, yes!  This is the exact correct way to see it.  I don't care who does it, I don't care who is actually right, I just want x problem to be solved.  Sometimes I'm involved in stuff, I never get credit, you never knew it was me.  I prefer it that way...

So do I.  I work in a Hospital, a respectful distance away from the Clinics and the OR and Triage.  The closest I ever get to interacting with a patient is if I'm walking down the hall and someone asks Me for directions.  Then I walk to My desk in a dimly-lit room in an obscure corner of one of the auxiliary buildings, put on some headphones, put My foot on the pedal and fingers on the keyboard, and type.

My work is its own reward:  It's My responsibility to produce medically accurate reports with proper spelling, grammar and punctuation, routed to the correct recipients, in a timely fashion.  I'm happy when a patient is doing well and sad when they're struggling.  Every once in a while one of the dictating doctors sends a compliment or a box of chocolates via My supervisor because I and My co-workers did a particularly good job of it.

I don't care that, to most of the doctors in the department, I'm just a set of initials in the bottom corner of the page.  It isn't a burden to know that most of them wouldn't recognize Me if I passed them in the hall.  I care about the work that comes off My desk, and the more I embrace that sense of caring, the better it gets and the better I get.

It's not about the money.  It never is.  It's about the passion and commitment.

[kindred]

Meh, I've always done the right thing because I was taught that way but I'm seriously starting to question why. Haven't you ever thought about the fact that there are no repercussions for doing the wrong things?

I've thought about it for a while now and I've come to the conclusion that there is no reward, no recognition and the wrong people profit from the fact that I follow the strong moral compass I've been raised with. So screw it all.

Very few people are willing to stand up for whats right.

Example (1) Authorities(whether high-school, government or what-have-you) would rather choose peace then justice. Once got bullied and went to defend myself, I'm the one that gets punished because it will be much more conducive to peace. If they punish the wrongdoers, they will seek revenge and create an unhealthy atmosphere. Heck, its the same thing even in family fueds where one side is clearly right. The authorities will give a slap on the wrist of the more mature family and then tell them to take the high road and let it go rather than putting forth resources to make sure people in the wrong are punished

Example (2) People would rather stick to the status-qou even when they know its wrong. I've broken many status-quos and started a change for the better. What did I get? Punishment. For doing the right thing. What did people that stuck to the status-qou get? All the benefits without the cost. They just changed to the bettter and new status-quo.

Note:the status-qou in this example is following the college reservation of space for academic purpose, most frats informally settle into college grounds and claim it as their own when it is designated to be used by acad orgs.

See my point here? Following the path of rightousness sucks. You get nothing for your troubles AND the assholes get the benefit of your work.

[Astreja]

Meh, I've always done the right thing because I was taught that way but I'm seriously starting to question why... Following the path of rightousness sucks. You get nothing for your troubles AND the assholes get the benefit of your work.

I'm actually okay with that, because I'd rather do something right than do it wrong just to get back at a bunch of assholes.

[Traveler]

I'm reviving this oldish topic for a reason. Today I was reading facebook and came upon a "humorous" post. Everyone was "liking" it, everyone was posting "lol" on it.

For the first split second I, too, thought it was funny. But then I remembered this conversation about violence, specifically domestic violence, and how it isn't just a women's problem. And all of a sudden this image was not funny at all. In fact, I find that it knots my guts up, makes me feel angry and sad in equal measure, and makes me shake my head in disgust that so-called feminists could not see the parallel between this and violence against women. Can you imagine the uproar if a similar image was posted talking about a man hitting a woman and leaving a big red mark???

I find that I'm so furious about this I can barely stand it. The more I read the words on this image the more furious I get.

I'm reviving this oldish thread because I want everyone to know that our discussions DO change minds. They DO make a difference. My awareness of a very real problem was a direct result of this discussion. I probably would have laughed and moved on if we had not discussed this here. Instead, I "shared" it with a message about domestic violence against men. Perhaps someone else will learn something too.

Thanks to all, and please carry on. We do make a difference.

Here's the image ...

[nogodsforme]

True--not funny to joke about domestic abuse like that. Thanks for reminding us that it is still not funny if it is a man being abused.

[LoriPinkAngel]

You sometimes do things because it is the right thing to do. Not because someone will reward you in some immediate way, or because it will dramatically change the world. You give an older man or overburdened mom a seat on the bus. You take in your neighbor's mail when they are out of town. You donate blood. You recycle. You send money to Planned Parenthood or volunteer at the animal shelter. You consider others instead of/in addition to yourself.

Maybe it will make the world a better place. Maybe not. But if you do not do those things, the world will be a worse place. Guaranteed.

I am curious to know how old are you and others who share this belief.  I am 49.  I feel like this line of thinking is dying out with my generation.  I don't associate it with religion.  Concern for others just seems to be going out of style.

[Traveler]

I am curious to know how old are you and others who share this belief.  I am 49.  I feel like this line of thinking is dying out with my generation.  I don't associate it with religion.  Concern for others just seems to be going out of style.

I don't know what to think about the various generations. I'm in my mid fifties and I see my early-twenties niece and nephew being very kind to others. Both help others, one is active in environmental concerns, both do charity walks and helped their neighbor who was dying of ALS. But of course that's a tiny sample size of two.

I'm reminded of this VERY old quote from Socrates ...

“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”

? Socrates

Perhaps every generation thinks things are getting worse.