Author Topic: Does the God of the Bible exist  (Read 3378 times)

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Offline Omen

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2012, 11:23:15 PM »
You're conflating a cheesy high school presentation video with a generic definition of evolution to dismiss evolutionary science.

Yes, you've gotten everything wrong.

But you fail to answer the question.  You do this a lot.

Another:  If life did not evolve then how did it originate?


Evolutionary science describes the processes by which HOW life evolves.  This includes many mechanisms,  such as natural selection, by which life gradually changes.  Your question doesn't make any sense because no evolutionary mechanism is necessarily related to how life began.  Your conflating through ignorance or dishonesty two separate subjects.

Plus, none of this has anything to do with atheism, or a god existing vs not existing.  The manner in which you the subject matter is blatantly at odds with the science and terminology itself.  All you seem to know is an ignorance laced stereotypical set of creationist fantasies.

So again, what is the purpose of lying about evolution?
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Offline Omen

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2012, 11:24:52 PM »
You also haven't answered half a dozen questions given to you almost an hour ago.
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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2012, 11:28:23 PM »
The same holds true for your definition of theory. It does not describe what a scientific theory is,

The definition was taken directly from the dictionary.  It describes it enough for me to understand what a theory is.

A theory is a hypothesis that has been tested to some extent, but cannot be proven as fact.  Some theories are closer to fact than others.

Evolution primarily involves the evolution (adaptation) of organisms.  But it has been greatly expanded beyond this.
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Offline Omen

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #32 on: April 26, 2012, 11:32:45 PM »
No scientific theory is proven.

Scientific theories explain scientific facts.

No evolution has nothing to do with anything else except how organisms evolve.

This is basic stuff.. the fact that you don't even know it tells us you don't even possess a grade school equivalent knowledge basis for science itself.
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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #33 on: April 26, 2012, 11:34:31 PM »
Quote from: Omen link=topic=22390.msg499952
So again, what is the purpose of lying about evolution?
No evolution has nothing to do with anything else except how organisms evolve.

So nothing else evolves except life?  The universe does not evolve?  Because that's not what I find when I Google it.

Quote
No scientific theory is proven.

You are arguing with the dictionary.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

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Offline Omen

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #34 on: April 26, 2012, 11:36:27 PM »
You're conflating a generic meaning of evolution as an english word with evolutionary science.  Needless to say, no.
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Offline Omen

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2012, 11:38:15 PM »
What is the purpose of lying about evolution?

Why are you not acknowledging what others are telling you?
"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas.  Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2012, 11:38:56 PM »
You're conflating a generic meaning of evolution as an english word with evolutionary science.  Needless to say, no.

It's right there on the Harvard web site!  I'm not doing anything.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2012, 11:40:19 PM »
All you do it make statements.  Why don't you back them up.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

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Offline Alzael

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2012, 11:41:02 PM »

The definition was taken directly from the dictionary.  It describes it enough for me to understand what a theory is.

A theory is a hypothesis that has been tested to some extent, but cannot be proven as fact.  Some theories are closer to fact than others.

To repeat:

The same holds true for your definition of theory. It does not describe what a scientific theory is,

Note the bold and keep trying.

Evolution primarily involves the evolution (adaptation) of organisms.  But it has been greatly expanded beyond this.

Try using more than two simple sentences. You are supposed to show that you actually understand what this means. What is the Theory of Evolution? How does it work? Stop avoiding the question and give a real response before you make any other posts. 
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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2012, 11:41:09 PM »
But you fail to answer the question.  You do this a lot.

Another:  If life did not evolve then how did it originate?

In order to ascertain whether evolution (genesis) is possible you have to answer
1 - how big is the universe?
2 - how many times has it happened?
3 - how many of them are there?
4 - is the Copenhagen interpretation true - does the universe select for permutations which create observers - no matter how unlikely
5 - is the Many World's Interpretation correct? if so, then life HAS TO BE created.

Since you cannot answer any of these questions, then you cannot rule out evolution on the basis of probability, or common sense. The universe is not a commonsense place. This was demonstrated back in the 20's, but you missed it.


I recommend that if you need to "think" about the issue, then you have started without knowing anything.
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Offline Omen

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2012, 11:44:26 PM »
All you do it make statements.  Why don't you back them up.

Why are you intentionally conflating evolution as an english word with evolutionary science of biology?
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Offline wright

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2012, 11:51:52 PM »
Yes I read, "Voyages Through Time is a year-long, integrated science curriculum for ninth or tenth grade, based on the theme of evolution ........... The year-long VTT curriculum is divided into six modules: Cosmic Evolution, Planetary Evolution, Origin of Life, Evolution of Life, Hominid Evolution, and Evolution of Technology."

And I also read, "Evolution - Any process of growth and change with time, including an accumulation of historical information; in its broadest sense, both developmental and generational change."

Did you read anything?

Is your definition of evolution different from that of Harvard?

Many here seem to say that evolution does not involve the Big Bang but Harvard disagrees and so does high school curriculum.

If this definition is incorrect then please correct it.

Sure. Those are lesson plans, not a Grand Unified Theory of Everything. Interdisciplinary approaches like that are common in education; useful for letting students see how various fields relate to each other. But this does not equate to making the Big Bang, abiogenesis and evolutionary theory dependent on each other. You really need to grasp this.


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Offline Omen

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2012, 11:57:44 PM »
This is a personal website for someone on harvards network, he's just pimping his own books released back in 2001.  Congrats your dishonesty extends to misrepresenting incongruent titles of a cheesy presentation promoting ones own personal book publishing with biological evolutionary science...that you then use to dismiss all of science itself.

Why would or should any of us take you seriously after such an incredible display of blatant dishonesty?
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 11:59:53 PM by Omen »
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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #43 on: April 26, 2012, 11:59:13 PM »
The same holds true for your definition of theory. It does not describe what a scientific theory is

Are you asking for a particular example, an explantion of the scientific method or what?

Quote
Try using more than two simple sentences. You are supposed to show that you actually understand what this means. What is the Theory of Evolution? How does it work? Stop avoiding the question and give a real response before you make any other posts.

It tries to explain how life originated.  It goes on to try to explain that all life came from a common ancestor.  It explains that species adapt to live in their surroundings and how there are variances within a species.  It also attempts to explain that one species evolves into another, either over long periods of time or through quicker mutations.

At least this was my initial opinion.  But after searching the net and finding words like "Cosmic Evolution" then that puts a whole new spin on things.
 
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2012, 12:05:45 AM »
This is a personal website for someone on harvards network, he's just pimping his own books released back in 2001.  Congrats your dishonesty extends to misrepresenting incongruent titles of a cheesy presentation promoting ones own personal book publishing with biological evolutionary science...that you then use to dismiss all of science itself.

Why would or should any of us take you seriously after such an incredible display of blatant dishonesty?

Excuse me I was wrong.  It must be a student.  I guess that means the guy is an idiot.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Omen

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2012, 12:11:03 AM »
This is a personal website for someone on harvards network, he's just pimping his own books released back in 2001.  Congrats your dishonesty extends to misrepresenting incongruent titles of a cheesy presentation promoting ones own personal book publishing with biological evolutionary science...that you then use to dismiss all of science itself.

Why would or should any of us take you seriously after such an incredible display of blatant dishonesty?

Excuse me I was wrong.  It must be a student.  I guess that means the guy is an idiot.

No, he's not an idiot.  An idiot is someone that uses the fact that a book title and promotional series uses the word evolution generically ...then conflates it with evolutionary science.
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Offline Omen

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2012, 12:13:32 AM »
So what is the purpose of lying about evolutionary science?

Clearly you've never cracked a science textbook in your life, yet you readily make up anything you wish on a whim regardless of how ignorant you are in that subject.  How can you claim to research what you can't even be bothered enough to even talk about accurately?
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Offline Add Homonym

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2012, 12:14:53 AM »
At least this was my initial opinion.  But after searching the net and finding words like "Cosmic Evolution" then that puts a whole new spin on things.

When I google it, I don't get any statements that need to be in this argument.

I think we will allow the existence of a creator; what you have to prove, is that this creator is the one and same God who created plants before he created sunlight, and put the sun, moon and stars all under a sheet of water on the 4th day. Since Genesis offers no specifics that make any sense, or can be verified scientifically, this is enough of a problem for you to debate on, without worrying about "cosmic evolution".

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Offline Alzael

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2012, 12:15:15 AM »
Are you asking for a particular example, an explantion of the scientific method or what?

I am asking for exactly what was asked. Can you describe what a scientific theory is?

It tries to explain how life originated.  It goes on to try to explain that all life came from a common ancestor.  It explains that species adapt to live in their surroundings and how there are variances within a species.  It also attempts to explain that one species evolves into another, either over long periods of time or through quicker mutations.

At least this was my initial opinion.  But after searching the net and finding words like "Cosmic Evolution" then that puts a whole new spin on things.

You are entirely wrong. So we have at least established then that when you talk about not believing in evolution, it is not the result of an educated opinion about the theory. It is based on ignorance and an inability/unwillingness to even understand what the theory says in the first place. Instead you are saying that you don't believe in a version of the theory that does not exist anywhere else but in your own head and the heads of other people as non-knowledgeable as you.

Now here is your next task. Please describe what the theory of evolution ACTUALLY is and what it ACTUALLY says.
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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #49 on: April 27, 2012, 12:23:08 AM »
No evolution has nothing to do with anything else except how organisms evolve.

No you are lying.

" Most non-scientists seem to be quite confused about precise definitions of biological evolution. Such confusion is due in large part to the inability of scientists to communicate effectively to the general public and also to confusion among scientists themselves about how to define such an important term."

"One of the most respected evolutionary biologists has defined biological evolution as follows:

"In the broadest sense, evolution is merely change, and so is all-pervasive; galaxies, languages, and political systems all evolve. Biological evolution ... "

- Douglas J. Futuyma in Evolutionary Biology, Sinauer Associates 1986 "

Note bold.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-definition.html

« Last Edit: April 27, 2012, 12:26:58 AM by Jstwebbrowsing »
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

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Offline Omen

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #50 on: April 27, 2012, 12:32:19 AM »
He paraphrases with defining evolution generically, he defines biological evolutionary science in what you omitted.

Are you insane or just incredibly stupid?

Biological evolution ... is change in the properties of populations of organisms that transcend the lifetime of a single individual. The ontogeny of an individual is not considered evolution; individual organisms do not evolve. The changes in populations that are considered evolutionary are those that are inheritable via the genetic material from one generation to the next. Biological evolution may be slight or substantial; it embraces everything from slight changes in the proportion of different alleles within a population (such as those determining blood types) to the successive alterations that led from the earliest protoorganism to snails,bees,giraffes,and dandelions."

See...THIS is the definition.  Notice it has nothing to do with what you've claimed about evolution thus far. How could I be lying when it confirms what I've stated already?

Now why exactly did you not recognize he defines biological evolution in the portion you omit?
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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #51 on: April 27, 2012, 12:36:28 AM »
But he does specifically state "galaxies". 

Why is this?  They are not life.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #52 on: April 27, 2012, 12:39:48 AM »
You are entirely wrong.

No you are wrong.  I have demonstrated this with links.  All you do is state, "you are wrong."

You guys do actually sound pretty religious.
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

Offline Omen

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #53 on: April 27, 2012, 12:41:07 AM »
But he does specifically state "galaxies". 

Why is this?  They are not life.

Its a rhetorical device.

"" In rhetoric, a rhetorical device or resource of language is a technique that an author or speaker uses to convey to the listener or reader a meaning with the goal of persuading him or her towards considering a topic from a different perspective.""

 http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhetorical_device#section_1

He opens by explaining how the word is commonly used, its an introduction device.  He then defines what biological evolution is.
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Offline Omen

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #54 on: April 27, 2012, 12:45:32 AM »
You are entirely wrong.

No you are wrong.  I have demonstrated this with links.  All you do is state, "you are wrong."

You guys do actually sound pretty religious.

Its pretty obvious you're trolling for effect here.  None of the links you've provided are adequate to support your claims.  We explained why and now your willfully ignoring posts and even going so far as to totally omit responses you don't wish to take seriously.

Why do your religious beliefs motivate you to behave so hatefully and dishonestly?
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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #55 on: April 27, 2012, 12:48:47 AM »
How the word is commonly used?  Galaxies, cultures, etc. do not evolve?

Is that what you're saying?
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #56 on: April 27, 2012, 12:53:50 AM »
How the word is commonly used?  Galaxies, cultures, etc. do not evolve?

Is that what you're saying?

How are galaxies mentioned in Genesis?

You just want to argue that evolution has flaws, therefore your religion doesn't.

 
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Offline Jstwebbrowsing

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Re: Does the God of the Bible exist
« Reply #57 on: April 27, 2012, 12:56:27 AM »
On second thought you are right.  Evolution did not originate life.  I believe that was my opinion when I dismissed it on my first post.

So if evolution did not originate life then what are the other alternatives?
Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 43:10