Demon Possession

[NATHAN]

Just wondering what the forum's opinion is on demon possession? Do demons exist and can people become demon possessed. 

[One Above All]

The forum doesn't have an opinion on anything. Individuals do. This one[1] does not believe in demons and, as a corollary, also does not believe in demon possession.

1.	Mass Effect reference.

[hickdive]

I concur with Lucifer.

[velkyn]

Just wondering what the forum's opinion is on demon possession? Do demons exist and can people become demon possessed.

Provide evidence that demons exist.  It is my considered opinion, based on observation, that demons do not exist and people who claim they do are delusional.   

[Omen]

Just wondering what the forum's opinion is on demon possession? Do demons exist and can people become demon possessed.

Evidence?

[NATHAN]

Evidence? [/quote]

Provide evidence that they do not exist!

I know they do.  I have assisted in Exorcisms. 

[Omen]

Provide evidence that they do not exist!

I know they do.  I have assisted in Exorcisms.

So something is true until its proven not true?

[One Above All]

Provide evidence that they do not exist!

That's not how it works. The one who makes the positive claim is the one who must provide the evidence. It is impossible to provide evidence for the non-existence of something.

[NATHAN]

I am asking opinion and belief of individual (thank you for the correction).  You are asking for proof.  You quesitons are not valid for this forum.  I personally believe in demons, I have seen them, I have experience interactions with them and wonder if any one else has. 

If you want to have theological discussion of how they were created and where they come from I will be more then happy to go down that road. 

[hickdive]

What did they look like?

How did you interact with them?

[caveat_imperator]

Provide evidence that they do not exist!

I know they do.  I have assisted in Exorcisms.

The fact that you can't provide any worthy evidence is evidence to me that demons are non-existent.

[Omen]

I am asking opinion and belief of individual (thank you for the correction).  You are asking for proof.  You quesitons are not valid for this forum.  I personally believe in demons, I have seen them, I have experience interactions with them and wonder if any one else has. 

If you want to have theological discussion of how they were created and where they come from I will be more then happy to go down that road.

My opinions are directly based on available evidence.

Do you have evidence?

[thunderridge]

Demons are imaginary.  You have probably talked to your god as well.  In reality it is all in your mind.  Your demons and such.

[NATHAN]

What did they look like?

How did you interact with them?

Sometimes they are translucent, others are black wisps.   

The fact that you can't provide any worthy evidence is evidence to me that demons are non-existent

.

Interesting.  I am sure Christopher Columbus was told the same thing about America. 

Demons are imaginary.  You have probably talked to your god as well.  In reality it is all in your mind.  Your demons and such

That is funny a house full of people that do not believe in god witnessed it and can testify to what happened.  but that is not proof enough.  They called us we answered the call. 

Black eyes, multiple toned voices, spitting at us was the imagination of 6 different people.  If that is the case I am delusional. 

[Omen]

Sometimes they ..

Evidence?

[Azdgari]

Nathan, just a heads up - so far all your bold claims are indistinguishable, to us, from lies.  It looks like you're just lying, whether or not you actually are.

If you're not, then that should bother you.

[hickdive]

Sometimes they are translucent, others are black wisps.   

What shapes do these translucent objects or black wisps have?

What makes you identify these things as demons?

[Ambassador Pony]

Nathan, I don't believe you are that fucking stupid.

Give it up, you're just pulling our chains, right?

[Emily]

Nathan, what you have seen is not going to convince us. It might convince your little christian friends with whom you socialize with on a sunday morning, but on a forum it's not going to work. To us it looks like you're making shit up.

If you have seen what you have then I am jealous. I would've loved to have seen a demon, or witness an exorcism. Just because I think it would be cool. But all-in-all your two encounters are appearing more to be lies.

You're whole not giving evidence to us for your encounter thing wont last very long here. Perhaps it would do you best to go down a different path of discussion, and not the discussion of what you have 'seen'.

And to answer your question about demons, no they don't exist (at least not the christian version of any demonic creature), because that christian holy book is completely false. Now Pinhead, he's real. I've seen him. There are documentations of what he can do. By my last count he's been caught on camera 8, if I am not mistaken.
-Em

[Emily]

Question for you Nathan:

You claim to have witnessed exorcisms. This person you witnessed who was under possession and later had an exorcism preformed on him or her, what kind of faith this person have? On a range from 1 - 10, one being very weak faith, 5 being a moderate level of faith and 10 being very strong faith, rate this person's faith in your god.

EDIT: And also, how well did you know this person.

Please don't dodge this question. I am truly curious to know.

[nogodsforme]

I do not believe that any supernatural beings exist. I have been in santeria, vodun and palo monte ceremonies where people became possessed by what they said were spirits or saints (and some Christians would say were demons). There are psychological reasons for what happened.

All known scientific and physical explanations have to be accounted for and discarded before you decide that it really was something supernatural like demons or spirits.

[Timtheskeptic]

i find this sad. I've watched "exorcism" shows where some "exorcist" proclaims that he can cast out demons and knew that some viewers would disbelieve. I was being all smug and decided, "Oh go on, show me the levitation, head spinning, and vomiting." Not a single scary thing ever occurred. One man threw up, but he was only having a pissed off fit. What i learned from viewing this is this; guilt over the loss, anger towards someone, hearing voices, being suicidal is all because of some demonic possession. BS. It's all human nature, nothing to do with demons and other evil entities.

I do not believe in demons or possessions because there is no evidence for it. i see no evil spirits, i see no supernatural things going on. I heard some people say they see levitation and supernatural strength. The video shows nothing more than a "possessed" person just lying on the ground convulsing and shouting. the exorcist is right about one thing, not everyone would believe this. I've watched it carefully and i still don't believe.

Nathan, you say that we should prove the negative, why don't you prove to me that i don't have a tiny fairy living in my pocket. Go on.

Also, proclaiming that you've "seen" things isn't good enough. i don't know what you were looking at, but i will tell you this; videos can be doctored up and our minds are flawed and we sometimes hallucinate.

[albeto]

I am asking opinion and belief of individual (thank you for the correction).  You are asking for proof.  You quesitons are not valid for this forum.  I personally believe in demons, I have seen them, I have experience interactions with them and wonder if any one else has. 

If you want to have theological discussion of how they were created and where they come from I will be more then happy to go down that road.

I would be most interested in hear of your experience.  What is it you saw?  If there was a video camera in the room with you, what would it have recorded?

I just attended a conference last weekend that talked about this a bit.  It was fascinating and I believe you, I just wonder what it would look like to a disinterested third party. 

[NATHAN]

Question for you Nathan:

You claim to have witnessed exorcisms. This person you witnessed who was under possession and later had an exorcism preformed on him or her, what kind of faith this person have? On a range from 1 - 10, one being very weak faith, 5 being a moderate level of faith and 10 being very strong faith, rate this person's faith in your god.

EDIT: And also, how well did you know this person.

Please don't dodge this question. I am truly curious to know.

i am answering on my phone so please forgive the typos

the house was demonically charged.  the people living there were making fun of it and thought it was cool.
one night a guy was drunk.  he was not a believer nor was he seeking god.   he challenged the thing to dwell within him.  the demon entered him and took control.  by the time we arrived his eyes were completely black.
he would be himself one minute and then something else.  demon only have permission when we let them.  the man spoke in different voices.  spit at his dog tags which were blessed prior to his military departure to iran. 
he was violent.  in the mist of all this when mike was speaking we asked him if would receive christ. he said yes.  we asked who he was and he said many. balith was another name given to us. 

Three hours later he had peace.

There are people that still live in the house that are not believers that can verify what i am saying.

[Emily]

I'm drunk, so forgive my typos

by the time we arrived his eyes were completely black.

What made you arrive? Did someone call you to this dudes "demonically charged" house?

There are people that still live in the house that are not believers that can verify what i am saying.

Kool!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Invite them here to corroborated your story.

And why would someone who was not seeking god and who were making fun of it get demonically possessed while there are others who do the same exact thing don't appear to be demonically possessed.

::FOR EXAMPLE::

God I challenge you to send a legion of demons to possess me! I beg you too! Please god, and please satan and his legions of fallen angels. I make fun of you guys because you don't exist. I spit on you guys.

Love, Emilie Nicole.

::example over::

he would be himself one minute and then something else.

The dude could've been bipolar?!?

[Argyle]

It's called schizophrenia and it is a serious mental condition. Exorcisms only make it worse, as they may feed into the persons delusion. Which is more dangerous, a person who is confused about their identity, or a person who has been convinced that they have multiple identities in their head and that one of them is a demon.

Seriously, if you see this man again, take him to see someone qualified to treat his condition, and that person is not someone who has studied theology, that person is someone who has studied neuropathology.

Emily: Just for future reference, bipolar disorder does not cause multiple personalities, it is the same personality exhibiting markedly different levels of depression, anger, fear, happiness etc. in rapid succession. It is a very debilitating disorder, but with proper treatment can be very manageable. I should know, my wife suffered from many of the symptoms.

[hickdive]

the house was demonically charged.  the people living there were making fun of it and thought it was cool.
one night a guy was drunk.  he was not a believer nor was he seeking god.   he challenged the thing to dwell within him.  the demon entered him and took control.  by the time we arrived his eyes were completely black.
he would be himself one minute and then something else.  demon only have permission when we let them.  the man spoke in different voices.  spit at his dog tags which were blessed prior to his military departure to iran. 
he was violent.  in the mist of all this when mike was speaking we asked him if would receive christ. he said yes.  we asked who he was and he said many. balith was another name given to us. 

Three hours later he had peace.

There are people that still live in the house that are not believers that can verify what i am saying.

So you didn't see anything translucent or any black wisps at this event?

There are no other possible explanations such as mental illness, substance abuse (in addition to or instead of the alcohol you mention, which is known to cause 'odd' behaviour in itself) or just plain old hoaxing you?

What you appear to have here is a confirmation bias towards demons and demonic possession. You believe in such things and so what you see confirms your beliefs.

OTOH the majority of other posters in this thread have no such bias and simply want to examine what evidence you have. Unfortunately, your description of events is subject to your bias and therefore can be discounted as evidence.

[Seppuku]

The forum doesn't have an opinion on anything. Individuals do. This one[1] does not believe in demons and, as a corollary, also does not believe in demon possession.

1.	Mass Effect reference.

I'm commander Shepherd and this is my favourite reference on the citadel.


On the note of exorcism, you can't give us ANY actual proof that demon possession is real, but simply what you and other claim to witness or what you interpret as demonic possession and seek to exorcise these people. Surely with how common so-called exorcisms are we'd have something conclusive? Instead, this practice can lead to the death of so-called 'possessed' people. http://whatstheharm.net/exorcisms.html

I think with this dangerous superstition, there is a severe call for proof on this.

You're also talking about potentially mentally ill people here, people who should seek medical help, as Argyle rightly suggests. With something like schizophrenia, you definitely don't want to worsen their condition, schizophrenics can sometimes be violent (my uncle, for example) and it's better to get them diagnosed and get them treated than pumping their minds with delusions.

[Nick]

Just wondering what the forum's opinion is on demon possession? Do demons exist and can people become demon possessed.

NO, but it would be cool.