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Problematic Prophesy

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Truth OT:
Believe it or not, many, if not most Christian believers have no idea that there are problems with their faith or the Bible which their faith is derived from. For most of their lives they have simply taken for granted that it is God's inspired book and all of its contents are true, based in fact, and that it is profitable for teaching, for correcting, for setting things straight, and for providing righteous discipline as 2 Timothy 3:16 claims. With this belief firmly planted in mind, even logical absurdities like talking snakes, talking donkeys, a Red Sea parting, an immaculate conception, an omnipotent and perfect God creating an imperfect world, and even a God that is often a proponent of what can best be described a genocide can be rationalized because of this understanding and the expectation that ALL THINGS WORK TOGETHER for a good that will ultimately come from this god to them that love Him. 

How do you communicate the flaws in the Christian faith to people that subscribe to this line of thinking? For some, no amount of communication, rational discussion, or thoughtful insight will do a damn bit of good, but for those that truly value truth and righteousness, there is perhaps an approach that can yield a reward. I believe the approach that would likely lead to the most changes of heart is the approach that allows the believer to see for themselves how the Bible they believe they base their beliefs on tears itself apart from the inside out.

I have begam this approach with some preacher friends of mine and it has really got a couple of them thinking. The way I have approached it is to attack the prophesy they believe is the most powerful reason why people should believe the Bible has veracity.

There are many failed or flawed prophecies to choose from, so with that in mind, I wish to solicit as well as share some of those prophecies. What do you guys have?

rev45:
The destruction of Tyre.  Yes this is Yahoo Answers but it appears to do a good job of covering most of the issues.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091214050238AAcXEU6

velkyn:
the "messiah" was to rebuilt the temple, be respected by world leaders, evidently have children, etc, all while alive and no "resurrection" needed to excuse why this "jesus christ" failed.   this group, jews for judaism have done a good job listing all of the problems with this messiah here: http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=374:messiah-the-criteria&catid=68:the-jewish-messiah&Itemid=481

Truth OT:
I try to come at them in a way that sort of beats them at their own game of scripture quoting. One of the ones that jumps out to me is found in Matthew 26:31 where Jesus himself claims fulfilled prophesy. In context it reads:


--- Quote --- Then, as they ate, Jesus took a loaf, and after giving thanks, broke it and gave it to the disciples saying: 'Take some and eat it, because this is my body.' He also took a cup [of wine], and after giving thanks, gave it to them saying, 'All of you drink from it, 28 because this is my blood of the New Sacred Agreement, which will be poured out for many to forgive [their] sins. But I tell you that I definitely won't drink of this product of the vine anymore, until that day when I will drink it new with you in the Kingdom of my Father.'

 Finally, after singing songs of praise, they went out to the Mount of Olives.

 [It was there that] Jesus said to them: 'All of you will be stumbled [by what will happen to] me tonight, because it's written: I will beat the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.
--- End quote ---

After the Passover meal, Jesus and his 12 go to the Mt. of Olives and there Jesus tells them that they will be made to stumble because of him that night, because it was written in Zechariah 13:7 the following;


--- Quote ---'I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.'
--- End quote ---

Shall we read Zechariah 13:1 -14:3 to see if the text Matthew claims Jesus appealed to actually has anything prophetic about the Messiah's last days?


--- Quote ---'In that Day, all [springs] will then open wide, for the rinsing and cleansing of David's house, and for those who live in JeruSalem. And in that Day it will be,' says Jehovah of Armies; 'The names of their idols I'll wipe from the land, so they'll be remembered no more. And I will remove from the land, the false prophets with their unclean spirits.
'And if there's a man who still prophecies; his father and the mother who bore him, must tell him that he may no longer live! For, he has told lies in the Name of the Lord. Then his father and the mother who bore him, will tie him up, because he prophesied. And it will be in that Day, that their visions will bring them disgrace, as will the things that they prophesied. They'll cover their heads with animal hides, because they will know that they've lied. And they'll say, I'm not a prophet; I'm just a man who works the ground… this is all that I've done since my youth!

'And then I will ask, So, what are these wounds in your hands?

'And they will reply, They were struck in the homes of our loved ones.

 'O broadsword, awaken against [such] a man, and against the shepherds [who live in] My land,' says Jehovah the Almighty. 'Strike the shepherds and scatter the sheep… against the shepherds I'll bring My hand.
'And in that Day,' says Jehovah; 'two-thirds will be wiped out and gone, but a third will still remain. Then I'll try them as [you] try gold. But, they will call on My Name. Then I will say, You're My people, and they will say, Jehovah's our God.'

'Look; The Lord's [Great] Day now approaches, when spoils will be divided among them. To JeruSalem I'll gather all nations, and the city will be captured thereafter. All the homes will be looted, and all the women will be raped. Then half of the city will be led away, and the rest (those who are My people), will not be destroyed from the [land]. Then the Lord will attack all those nations, in His battle on the Day of the war.
--- End quote ---

So, according to Matthew 26:31, Jesus told his disciples that they would be shaken and scattered because it was prophesied that God will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered. Interesting considering the fact that according to Zechariah the shepherds (plural) that would be struck by God were lumped in as it pertains to the punishment from God, with the false prophets spoken of previously in Zechariah 13. These were people God is said to have comtempt for and were being held responsible for misleading God's chosen sheep, I mean people. How in the world is this in any way, shape, or form a prophesy foretelling the plight of the Jewish Messiah and his disciples?
It appears that the writer of Matthew either misquoted Jesus in hopes of duping the unstudied Jews that he wrote to into believing Jesus fulfilled a prophesy about him that was not in fact about him, or Matthew's writer correctly quoted Jesus and it was Jesus that was doing the duping. Either way, it's not a good look for the Bible.

screwtape:

--- Quote from: Truth OT on April 23, 2012, 10:54:25 AM ---Believe it or not, many, if not most Christian believers have no idea that there are problems with their faith...
--- End quote ---

What do you mean by the word "faith" here in this context?  I'm not challenging you, I just don't know what you mean.

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