Right. So, you are saying that Jesus is a childish exaggerator. Good to hear it straight from you.
In order for something to "be done aways with', it must first exist. So I do not follow you reasoning.
It is you who is making claims (and very wild, supernatural, unobservable ones at that), and therefore it is you who is saddled with providing the good evidence and reason for your claims.
Once again. I present the universe and evidence.
What you might want to consider is if "faith" (believing things for which there is no evidence) is a good way or a poor way of understanding our world and reality.
Incorrect. Faith is the assured expectation of realities though not beheld. I have faith the sun will rise.
That's because you haven't for one moment looked at your belief system and/or bible critically. Please list the books you've read which are counter to your beliefs. If you think the bible is "perfect", maybe start
Yes, in fact I have. I'm here aren't I? I do have doubts that you have considered any counter arguments.
And that what we call god's justice is only man's idea of what he would do if he were god
Yes. This is exactly what you guys are doing by saying God would just forgive.
You also fail to appreciate that many of us here were christians, myself included (yes a "true" christian) for a quarter century. I woke up.
Sadly many theists are completely ignorant as to what the Bible teaches beyond "Jesus died for our sins."
If anything you show that you're more likely to be wrong because you refuse to even consider any other options but the ones you want to be true. We're not bound by that limitation and can look at the matter more objectively
What is the basis of your objectivity? Once again. I present the universe as my evidence. Where is yours?
Again, why do we have to do more work than you do? You're the one trying to make the claim in the first place. Why don't you show us something more than you saying how god must be?
I am showing you what the Bible says. Not what I dreamed up. If you are going to judge the Bible then shouldn't you consider both sides of the argument?
By what standards are you qualified? You can't even define your god, and it's dubious whether you've even read your own book.
My God is the embodiment of love, justice, and wisdom.
How are you qualified if you can't even form an intelligent or proper defense for your ideas?
Your comments show that your study seems to have been limited to a study of only the surface of the Bible. And nothing in depth.
What evidence are you talking about?
The Bible and reason. For example what is justice? Why is it symbolized with scales? Because justice means balance and not forgiveness only.
For example, if I said, "in the Lollypop mountains, which are beyond the horizon, there lives a Blue King and he prefers blondes," you could not prove me wrong. No way, no how. Because it is a statement that cannot be verified. That does not mean I am right. In fact, the onus should be on me to prove the statement correct.
I understand this argument. However, what if a billion people said the same thing with just a little variance? Does that make it true? No. Does that mean I would be a fool to not at least investigate? Yes.
You are saying faith is better evidence than imagination. I see no distinction between the two. Faith, in the case of religion, is without evidence. If you had evidence, you would have said "I believe because of this..."
Example. When the Big Bang started being widely accepted, many theists considered this a challenge to their beliefs? Why? It means science now believes the universe had a beginning. In what way is this a challenge to the Bible? The Bible agrees. How many times does it have to be right before it's worth consideration?
Jst, if your god is indeed this omnieverything being, it makes the rules. So why not make animal sacrifices valuable enough?
A perfect being would be limited to doing that which is perfect. To do otherwise would mean it has become imperfect. This means it really can't do just anything we might want it to do.
If a just and loving god is the source of, or is, morality, then how does a moral being justify taking the life of an innocent for the sins of the guilty ?
How is moral justice in any way shape or form served ?
God did not force Jesus to sacrifice himself. Jesus did it willingly. Where is the justice for Jesus? He was resurrected to become the ruler of those he sacrificed himself for.
At this point all a god is accomplishing is to disturbingly take indiscriminate revenge on his creation through himself and for the mistakes that he has made himself in creating, with foreknowledge, a flaw in humans. This accomplishes zero and Moral justice then is not served and the guilty are still guilty and especially because his son did not actually die. The wages of sin is death. Period. But Jesus survived both physically and spiritually and so the deal ends up an irreparable and powerless sham from a logical standpoint.
If God is ultimately successful then there is no real flaw. To me the real question is does the ends justify the means. And no. The sacrifice was real. The sacrifice was a perfect human life. Not a perfect spiritual life.
The absurd idea that a spirit being creates a child through an unnatural act and proceeds to have this innocent being killed does not in the least way exonerate me for having to take moral responsibility for my natural actions.
Firstly Jesus existed with God before he became human. And while it does extend to you forgiveness it does not remove the suffering you experience because of the results of any moral irresponsibility. It simply means you don't have to pay the ultimate price of eternal death.
True, but if he was a victim of childhood indoctrination, you can hardly blame him.
My extend of my "indoctrination" is that my parents belive God exists even though they never attempted to convince me of this themselves. I did not become convinced of this until I researched things myself as an adult. But I guess I could claim "my brain made me do it." Zankuu
Will it do any good for me to prepare an answer? If I do will you simply say my "magic decoder ring" is broken?
Everyone consider this. In recent times knowledge of almost everything has increased. Is it not possible that knowledge and understanding of the Bible has also increased?