Author Topic: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...  (Read 841 times)

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Offline Whateverman

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Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« on: April 13, 2012, 09:27:08 PM »
Couldn't find this posted here at WWGHA yet, so here ya go:

Quote
In a move that serves as a significant blow to “ex-gay” programs and anti-gay organizations, Dr. Robert Spitzer repudiated his much-criticized 2001 study that claimed some “highly motivated” homosexuals could go from gay to straight. His retraction occurred in an American Prospect magazine article that hit newsstands today. Spitzer’s rejection of his own research, which was originally published in the prestigious Archives of Sexual Behavior, is a devastating blow to “ex-gay” organizations because it decisively eliminates their most potent claim that homosexuality can be reversed through therapy and prayer.

http://www.truthwinsout.org/blog/2012/04/24187/
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2012, 09:36:55 PM »
We will say: Yet another example of science self-correcting, which just goes to show you how great it is!

They will say: Yet another example of science flip-flopping, which just goes to show you how wrong it is!
"Do you see a problem with insisting that the normal ways in which you determine fact from fiction is something you have to turn off in order to maintain the belief in God?" - JeffPT

Offline Nick

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2012, 09:42:38 PM »
Maybe those 3 chicks can exorcise the gay away. ;)
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline Brakeman

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2012, 09:54:48 PM »
Well, maybe the god of today can't do shit because he's too old and completely senile. He used to be a powerful smiter and voyeur, but now he's deaf and mute and can't get it up anymore. The Christians say he's alive, but if he is, he's definably a vegetable..
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Offline stuffin

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2012, 10:22:42 PM »
Maybe those 3 chicks can exorcise the gay away. ;)
I think I'm gay....
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

Offline Traveler

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2012, 10:25:03 PM »
It's always seemed obvious to me that if anyone could actually wish/pray/hope "the gay" away was really bi to start with. The whole concept is absurd and insulting and I'm glad he's retracted it.

Someday it won't matter. Someday the idiots who think its their business what happens between consenting adults will get their noses out of other people's lives and mind their own instead. It really pisses me off that this is STILL an issue.
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Offline jeremy0

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2012, 11:17:07 PM »
I'm on the opposite end - people tend to think I'm gay due to 'the way you ____', or the fact that I don't date much anymore now that I'm older..

So yeah, I'm kind of pissed at gays because of that, but it's still none of my business what they do with their own time, and I've known gay people - they don't bother me as much as a lot of the religious people.  At least the gays aren't trying to kill me..

Uh, it brings to mind the 'let's send them to an island trick'.  Praying away gays is the same concept.  Even if you got rid of everybody you hate exactly midnight tonight, there will be millions more of them born the next day.  So island trick, killing them off, fool's gold..

It's kind of like the recent rantings of doctors that will lose everybody's healthcare.  It came out in a report from medical staff that 'yes, people who have chronic illnesses or disease cost more.'  So then we screw up medicare and think that will somehow save the system.  Actually, you get all these elderly off of healthcare, and these same doctors are going to lose a ton of money..
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Offline Nick

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2012, 07:44:54 AM »
It's always seemed obvious to me that if anyone could actually wish/pray/hope "the gay" away was really bi to start with. The whole concept is absurd and insulting and I'm glad he's retracted it.

Someday it won't matter. Someday the idiots who think its their business what happens between consenting adults will get their noses out of other people's lives and mind their own instead. It really pisses me off that this is STILL an issue.
I think the idiots are called republicans.
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2012, 07:52:40 AM »
What a surprise. And I thought that sexuality was a choice.[/sarcasm]
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Offline Alzael

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2012, 08:00:06 AM »
Maybe those 3 chicks can exorcise the gay away. ;)
I think I'm gay....

I know this guy named Rick who's really into prayers then. I'm sure he'd help.
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Offline Traveler

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2012, 09:30:44 AM »
I'm on the opposite end - people tend to think I'm gay due to 'the way you ____', or the fact that I don't date much anymore now that I'm older..

So yeah, I'm kind of pissed at gays because of that, but it's still none of my business what they do with their own time, and I've known gay people - they don't bother me as much as a lot of the religious people.  At least the gays aren't trying to kill me...

Which still says you think something is wrong with being gay. In a world that actually makes sense, being gay wouldn't be seen as something to worry about, or that someone would be embarrassed about, or that you'd feel pissed about for being mistaken for. (I know, lousy sentence structure, so sue me). The idea that sexuality is shameful is a terrible, puritanical, ancient, and stupid concept. We're all scarred by it in some way I would think. Our society is totally warped when it comes to sexuality, and I blame religion for most of that. A bunch of uptight, women-hating, gay-hating, nosy-parkers have ruined what should be a joyous activity. As long as its between consenting adults, there should be NO stigma whatsoever about who one loves or has sex with (or both).
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Offline Alzael

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2012, 09:34:33 AM »
As long as its between consenting adults, there should be NO stigma whatsoever about who one loves or has sex with (or both).

Or what toys they use............
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

Philip of Macedon: (via messenger) If we enter Sparta, we will raze all your buildings and ravage all your women.
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Offline Quesi

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2012, 10:36:01 AM »
Forgive me if I go off on a little bit of a tangent here.

I’m a huge fan of Newark Mayor Cory Booker.  He has been in the news this week because he ran into a burning house and saved a woman, blah blah blah.  It is very consistent with his “hands on” approach.   Apart from being a superhero, he is smart, articulate, and amazingly hard working.

But there is something just a little odd. 

I don’t think that there has ever been an elected official whose personal life was more hidden from view.  Many fans (and foes) have speculated that he is gay.   Others have speculated that he is dating a white woman.  I can’t imagine why he would hide either of those realities.   Even Wikipedia has nothing on his personal life.  I read a 7 page magazine article about him recently, and other than his childhood, (and his vegetarianism) there is NOTHING about any life outside of elected office. 

I guess I kind of assumed he was gay.  Not particularly out.  But gay.  And then I saw this video. 



I really love this guy.  But he can’t be gay.  He can’t portray himself as a strong, heterosexual civil rights activist and be gay.  So now I’m assuming he is not.   He can’t be.  He can’t speak like that, and be a closeted gay man.  If, at some point, I find out that he is, I will have lost a great deal of respect for him.  But I want to continue to feel this awed respect for him, and so I choose to believe his words. 

So Jeremy, you, like Mayor Cory Booker, are subject to the speculation of those who know a little bit, but not too much about you.  But you are not an elected official.

I would love to see him run for president in 2016.  But unless SOMETHING of his personal life comes to light, he cannot be a candidate. 

I can’t stop thinking about him.  And I can’t stop wondering what it is that he is hiding.  Celibacy?   Polyamory?  A broken heart that has never mended?  Is he in love with someone married?   Are those who speculate that he is dating a white woman right?  Why would he hide that? 

And I can’t stop wondering what is wrong with our society that there is something about him that needs to be hidden from view. 


Offline Strawman

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2012, 11:45:49 AM »
Which still says you think something is wrong with being gay. In a world that actually makes sense, being gay wouldn't be seen as something to worry about, or that someone would be embarrassed about, or that you'd feel pissed about for being mistaken for...
Consider that if you are a straight man and people mistake you as gay, they are effectively saying you do not give off a sexual presence that would be attractive to women. If you're straight you don't want to be mistaken for gay because you want to get laid lol. I'm sure gay guys don't want to come off as straight for the same reason.

@quasi
Quote
I’m a huge fan of Newark Mayor Cory Booker...
I don't hear anything anti-gay in his speech. He is talking about ALL Americans and the fact there should never be a vote on civil rights (like gay marriage). I get the feeling he is eluding to homosexuals the whole way through, but he is purposefully avoiding mentioning sexuality so that people will not have that knee-jerk reaction to the word "homosexual" and view them the same as any other minority. I wouldn't be surprised if he is gay, he has some gay mannerisms (if such things really exist). This actually makes it more plausible to me that he could be gay than if he openly supported gay rights, he is doing so but in a subtle indirect way.

I wish all governments would stop playing nanny and remove ALL prohibitions. Whatever we do to our bodies or what to have done to us is OUR BUSINESS, not the state's! Legalize drugs, legalize prostitution, legalize gay marriage. And while you're at it remove all funding for religious organisations and produce a centralised fund for all political parties to end lobbying, make the rich pay their share and bingo we have a better, fairer, freer democracy.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 12:06:44 PM by Strawman »
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Offline One Above All

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2012, 11:47:40 AM »
<snip>

This explains getting angry over being called something you're not, but it doesn't explain why you'd get pissed at the group you're being compared to rather than the group calling you something you're not, which I think was Traveler's point.
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Offline Quesi

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2012, 01:05:19 PM »
Oh Strawman-

Quite the opposite.  He is clearly a very strong civil rights activist, and is speaking very passionately about the rights of residents of his state.  However, he alludes to privileges that he has, that the gay and lesbian citizens do not have. 

I had assumed that he was gay.  But since he talks about himself as someone who would not be denied privileges that ARE denied to gay and lesbian citizens, (and criticizing the laws that deny these rights and the actions of the Governor in perpetuating those laws) he is clearly self-identifying as heterosexual. 

He is obsessively secretive about his private life.  If he were gay, but not particularly out, I would have been comfortable with that.  Here in NYC we have quite a few very out elected officials.  But NJ is not NYC.  I would not have really begrudged him a bit of privacy on the issue.

But since, in this speech, he clearly self-identifies as NOT gay, I am both surprised and puzzled. 

If he were to come out as gay later, after this really wonderful speech, I do not see how I could continue to feel the passionate respect that I have for him now. 

Offline Traveler

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2012, 02:02:23 PM »
See, in my opinion, people make WAY too much out of other people's sexuality. While I can understand that having an out gay person in office can be empowering to gays trying to get equal rights, in my perfect world (which hopefully will exist someday - may I live to see it), one's private life will be just that. Private. If a person doesn't want their family and friends subjected to a public life, then they'd keep it quiet. Not because they're ashamed, but because once one is a public figure, your life is CHANGED. In major ways. Your life is no longer purely your own. It would be a choice for each family of a celebrity or politician or whatever, to decide for themselves. Likewise, if that family wants a public life, regardless of the makeup of their family, they should be able to be as public as they wish. Two men holding hands? No big deal. Two women adopting children? No big deal. Mixed race? No big deal. And so on ....

I like how this man speaks in generalities, so as not to exclude anyone. He talks about equal rights. By not explicitely mentioning gays, he includes bisexuals, transgendered, straights, and so on. I like that.

He did imply that he's straight. I agree that this is how his speech comes across. I don't know how I'd feel if I found out that he was gay. Clearly it would be nice if politicians never lied, whether explicitly or implicitly. And if he has a male life partner he might feel snubbed. But I don't know. I'm torn between respecting his privacy, and picking at the terminology he used. It will be interesting to see what happens if/when his family life is revealed. It's interesting that presidential candidates are expected to be married (to a person of the opposite sex) and that the family is generally a part of the campaign. I don't know why a single person, or an atheist, or a gay person, or transgendered, or whatever, couldn't or shouldn't be president. As long as they're qualified, care about the people, and more or less agree with my take on the issues, I don't care about the rest.
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Offline jeremy0

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2012, 05:48:44 PM »
Quote
This explains getting angry over being called something you're not, but it doesn't explain why you'd get pissed at the group you're being compared to rather than the group calling you something you're not, which I think was Traveler's point.
I must be in err - I didn't mean to say I am pissed at gays or that I hate gays - that's not the case.  The case is what was stated earlier by somebody else - I am pissed at the people mistaking me for one at times.  But, I was also once just a week ago called a 'f@ck tard' just for sitting in a coffee shop and trying to get some work done.  People just need people to hate, case-in-point.  When they stop finding people to hate, it's a wonder what they are then going to do..
"If you find yourself reaching for the light, first realize that it has already touched your finger."
"If I were your god, I would have no reason for judgement, and you have all told endless lies about me.  Wait - you do already. I am not amused by your ignorance, thoughtlessness, and shallow mind."

Offline Ice Monkey

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2012, 06:01:50 PM »
What a surprise. And I thought that sexuality was a choice.[/sarcasm]

Strange how some still believe it is.  I can't recall the day I decided to become a vagitarian.
Religion. It's given people hope in a world torn apart by religion." -- Charlie Chaplin

Offline One Above All

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2012, 06:02:42 PM »
Strange how some still believe it is.  I can't recall the day I decided to become a vagitarian.

Damn you heterosexuals and your puns!
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline jeremy0

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2012, 06:05:35 PM »
Quote
Damn you heterosexuals and your puns!
I hate pizza!!!!!   :D
"If you find yourself reaching for the light, first realize that it has already touched your finger."
"If I were your god, I would have no reason for judgement, and you have all told endless lies about me.  Wait - you do already. I am not amused by your ignorance, thoughtlessness, and shallow mind."

Offline Ice Monkey

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2012, 06:12:26 PM »

Damn you heterosexuals and your puns!

Don't give me that.  You've been staring at my puns since I got here.
Religion. It's given people hope in a world torn apart by religion." -- Charlie Chaplin

Offline One Above All

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2012, 06:13:35 PM »
Don't give me that.  You've been staring at my puns since I got here.

Damn you most of humanity and your false dichotomy when it comes to sexuality! =/
Also, you're a leaf.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline Ice Monkey

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2012, 06:20:58 PM »
Damn you most of humanity and your false dichotomy when it comes to sexuality! =/
Also, you're a leaf.

My stand is, I'm a fan of a happy ending, and as long as you aren't infringing on anyone's rights, I don't care how you get one.
Replace "the 60's" with "the 70's", and this is pretty accurate:
 
Religion. It's given people hope in a world torn apart by religion." -- Charlie Chaplin

Offline One Above All

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #24 on: April 14, 2012, 06:22:36 PM »
My stand is, I'm a fan of a happy ending, and as long as you aren't infringing on anyone's rights, I don't care how you get one.

*facepalm* I was actually referring to the fact that you assumed that since I wasn't heterosexual, I must be homosexual. There are other "sides"[1] to sexuality other than heterosexual and homosexual. There's also bisexual and asexual. Why does everyone forget those? =/
 1. For lack of a better term.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

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Offline jeremy0

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #25 on: April 14, 2012, 06:30:30 PM »
Quote
*facepalm* I was actually referring to the fact that you assumed that since I wasn't heterosexual, I must be homosexual. There are other "sides"[1] to sexuality other than heterosexual and homosexual. There's also bisexual and asexual. Why does everyone forget those? =/
 1. For lack of a better term.
So what does that make me that I don't reproduce?  Queer?  At least there's porn.  I'm not a bad looking guy, yet I have no interest in getting married or having kids.  That's my problem.  So?  I enjoy work more than a relationship.  The farthest I want to go in a relationship is a quickie over the boob-tube.  Yeah, I like women, that was always my preference.  But I got into a different situation.  So what? 
My point on this thread was something like - who cares?  Everybody tries to figure you out, and it's affectively no different, in applying their 'reasoning', than what they do when they try to figure out solutions to religious banter. 
People just want to think they know or have something on you, because they like the idea of getting under your skin or 'owning you'.  Makes them feel powerful.  But, I view these same people as weak as shit.  if they only knew in offending you all and myself they were actually grabbing a bull in the butthole..

Edit: what I mean is, I've seen all the damage it causes people just because they belong to some group to be kicked around.  Especially when they are young and developing their minds.  It absolutely infuriates me.  If I get the opportunity, some noise is going to be made about this stuff.  And it's going to be some serious shit.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2012, 06:34:00 PM by jeremy0 »
"If you find yourself reaching for the light, first realize that it has already touched your finger."
"If I were your god, I would have no reason for judgement, and you have all told endless lies about me.  Wait - you do already. I am not amused by your ignorance, thoughtlessness, and shallow mind."

Offline One Above All

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2012, 06:33:17 PM »
So what does that make me that I don't reproduce?  Queer?

Reproduction is irrelevant to sexuality. Sexuality is about sexual attraction.

I'm not a bad looking guy

I'll be the judge of that. ;)[1]
 1. This is a joke.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline jeremy0

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2012, 06:36:18 PM »
So what does that make me that I don't reproduce?  Queer?

Reproduction is irrelevant to sexuality. Sexuality is about sexual attraction.
True..

Quote
I'm not a bad looking guy

I'll be the judge of that. ;)[1]
 1. This is a joke.
Yeah, depends on taste.  I can look like shit whenever i want as well..  run for your lives!  It's jeremy0!!!!
"If you find yourself reaching for the light, first realize that it has already touched your finger."
"If I were your god, I would have no reason for judgement, and you have all told endless lies about me.  Wait - you do already. I am not amused by your ignorance, thoughtlessness, and shallow mind."

Offline Strawman

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Re: Seems like you CAN'T pray the gay away...
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2012, 06:16:19 AM »
... I was also once just a week ago called a 'f@ck tard' just for sitting in a coffee shop and trying to get some work done.  People just need people to hate, case-in-point.  When they stop finding people to hate, it's a wonder what they are then going to do.
Cry in the mirror.  :'(

It's interesting that presidential candidates are expected to be married (to a person of the opposite sex) and that the family is generally a part of the campaign. I don't know why a single person, or an atheist, or a gay person, or transgendered, or whatever, couldn't or shouldn't be president. As long as they're qualified, care about the people, and more or less agree with my take on the issues, I don't care about the rest.
Well isn't that just because people vote for an image of themselves? They see people like G 'dubbya' and think "hey this guy's like a regular Joe, he'll look out for regular Joes like me!" and they get screwed again. So everyone who runs for office tries to mutate into a representation of 90% of citizens. It's hilarious when our politicians try to do it because they're all upper-class twits who appear to lack the motor skills to walk in a straight line, let alone talk straight. Watching Ed Miliband "buying" a pasty (having Ed Balls buy it for him while he tags along like a lost schoolboy) was very funny.
If God exists at all he clearly wishes to reside exclusively in the imagination.