This is Bluey

[Bluey]

Hello all, my name's Bluey. I'm a christian.

[pianodwarf]

Hello all, my name's Bluey. I'm a christian.

Hi, Bluey, welcome to WWGHA.  Things can be a little "bumpy" around here for believers because, among other things, they're generally outnumbered by a pretty large margin, so if you feel yourself becoming overwhelmed by too many responses to your posts, please don't hesitate to speak up and say "I need a timeout -- can't keep up".  We'll be understanding.

I hope you find your stay an interesting and informative one.

[One Above All]

Hello, my name's Lucifer. I'm an atheist. Welcome to the forum. Like pianodwarf says, things can get a little bumpy, but if you're intellectually honest, you shouldn't have any problems.

[Nick]

Welcome Bluey.  There is a cure for that.

[velkyn]

welcome to the forum.  I'd suggest reading the forum rules and the guide:
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,21732.0.html
http://whywontgodhealamputees.com/forums/index.php/topic,17230.0.html

also reading some of the more active threads will help.  Unfortunately the search function here isn't great so it's hard to look for topics that have been discussed before. 

You will be expected to support your claims with evidence.  You also might want to familiarize yourself with the various logical fallacies that will be jumped upon if you try to use them.  Here's a good site: http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ 

also, many of us were Christians of one type or another.  And quite a few of us are very familiar with the bible, other religions and many of the sciences. 

as PD says, things can "bumpy" here.  the forum also offers one-on-one discussions if you don't want to be hit with an avalanche.

[Bluey]

Welcome Bluey.  There is a cure for that.

For what?

[kaziglu bey]

Hello, and welcome to the WWGHA forum.

[kin hell]

greetings fellow earthling

Bluey ...sounds like an Oz name?


So what variation of christian are you mate?

[kaziglu bey]

Welcome Bluey.  There is a cure for that.

For what?

I rather believe that Nick means that there is a cure for Christianity. This may in fact be the place that you find that cure.

But perhaps you could tell us a little more about yourself as a Christian, in order to give us some perspective? As in, do you have a particular denomination, do you have a favorite version of the Bible, do the think the Bible is inerrant and true in every way? Such things will be helpful for us to understand where you are coming from.

[Traveler]

Hello and welcome. 

[freakygin]

Hello, and welcome.

Just don't try to "Save" us and i'm sure we'll get along just fine..

[Bluey]

Good idea freakygin. I won't try and convert anyone to christianity, and no one here try to convert me to atheism.

[One Above All]

Good idea freakygin. I won't try and convert anyone to christianity, and no one here try to convert me to atheism.

What? How did you get that from not trying to "save" us?
If I understood freakygin correctly, he's talking about the type of theists who come here, "asking" us to believe[1] because they're just trying to "save" our "souls"[2].
Also, you can't convert to atheism. That's what we call an "oxymoron".

1.	As if that were even possible.
2.	Whatever those are.

[Bluey]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/convert?s=t

con·vert
1 ? ?[v. kuhn-vurt; n. kon-vurt] Show IPA

verb (used with object)
1.
to change (something) into a different form or properties; transmute; transform.

2.
to cause to adopt a different religion, political doctrine, opinion, etc.: to convert the heathen.

3.
to turn to another or a particular use or purpose; divert from the original or intended use: They converted the study into a nursery for the baby.

4.
to modify (something) so as to serve a different function: to convert an automobile factory to the manufacture of tanks.

5.
to obtain an equivalent value for in an exchange or calculation, as money or units of measurement: to convert bank notes into gold; to convert yards into meters.


Under definition 2, you can convert to atheism.

[One Above All]

Under definition 2, you can convert to atheism.

Atheism is neither a religion nor an opinion. At best you could say it's the latter, but I don't think it qualifies.

[Bluey]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism?s=t


a·the·ism
? ?[ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA

noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no God.

2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.


Under definition 2, atheism is an opinion, because to have either a belief or a disbelief, it involves having an opinion on the subject in question. Therefore, it is possible to convert (change opinion) to atheism.

[Azdgari]

Gotta go with Bluey here - it is an opinion, in the sense that it is a position taken on a topic.

But Lucifer is right that "converting to atheism" is nonsensical.  If someone is of the opinion that the Toronto Maple Leafs are the best hockey team in North America, and they are disabused of that insane notion, then they have not been "converted" in some sense.  They have not joined the "a-maple-leaf-supremacy" religion.  They've simply changed their opinion.

[Alzael]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism?s=t


a·the·ism
? ?[ey-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA

noun
1.
the doctrine or belief that there is no God.

2.
disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings.


Under definition 2, atheism is an opinion, because to have either a belief or a disbelief, it involves having an opinion on the subject in question. Therefore, it is possible to convert (change opinion) to atheism.

So, you're actually trying to lecture the atheists on what atheism is? That's not presumptious of you at all.

[screwtape]

Hi Bluey,

Welcome.

It is bad policy to try to tell other people what they believe.  You are probably wrong (unless you can read minds) and it pisses them off.  You probably don't want us telling you what you believe.

You are using more of a common usage definition.  We tend to speak in more nuanced terms here.  Most atheists you will talk to regard atheism as a rejection of the claim that there are gods.  That's it.  It is a subtle distinction from believing there are no gods.  The first leaves open the possibility, the second makes a claim.  Most atheists will grant that it cannot be proven that a god does not exist, depending how the god is defined.   

[One Above All]

Gotta go with Bluey here - it is an opinion, in the sense that it is a position taken on a topic.

That's because of the way you define "opinion", as well as what you think about proving or disproving the existence of deities. I think an opinion is on a subjective topic. I also think deities, by definition, cannot exist. This is why I don't consider atheism to be an opinion. IMO it's the only justifiable side on the existence of deities.

[pianodwarf]

Bluey, my use of the green boldface font indicates that I am speaking as a moderator, rather than as a particpant in the discussion.

This section of the forum is for introductions.  I think we have now passed the Introductory stage.     It appears to me that you already have the first topic you wish to discuss: what atheism actually is.  Personally, I think it's a fine starting point.  Please start a thread in the appropriation section of the forum, and we'll start getting into it.

[Bluey]

Screwtape,

Hi. I'm not telling anyone what they believe. I'm just saying what the words mean as they're defined. I totally understand however if atheists wish to use the words in a way that better expresses where they stand. Perhaps new terms should be devised that achieve that.

[kaziglu bey]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism?s=t

<snip>
Under definition 2, atheism is an opinion, because to have either a belief or a disbelief, it involves having an opinion on the subject in question. Therefore, it is possible to convert (change opinion) to atheism.

So, gravity is just an opinion too then? You may need to consider that some opinions are held in spite of evidence (this is called faith) and some opinions are held in concordance with the evidence (this is called science). One of these methods has been consistently shown to demonstrate its usefulness in understanding and predicting phenomena, as well as allowing us to use that understanding to create new and better things. The other says that insects have 4 legs. Call that a matter of "opinion" if you like, but one method gets things right, and gets better at getting things right, and the other method has been failing for thousands of years. (Hint: The Bible does not contain a blueprint for the computer you are using to participate in this discussion.)

[Seppuku]

Welcome to the forums! Hope you enjoy your stay and find it to be an informative place of discussion and hope you can show us a thing or two. Though, obviously, with the amount of theists who come here, there are arguments we've heard a 1000 times and people may have their automatic responses to them.

It's pretty intense here, but if you're going to make claims, please prepared to be able to back them up, if you can't then what you say may be considered fictitious. Also, be aware that some sources may not be the most trust worthy, so we may even scrutinise your sources. As said, check over our rules and you ought to feel right at home.

However, good to see you're off to a head start and you're already using back up (via the use of the dictionary). I'm glad to see you're not here to convert, hopefully you will run it with an open mind and are willing to admit you're wrong when you are shown to be wrong and we'll offer you the same respect.


Oxford Dictionary defines it as 'a lack of belief[1]', just as you have a 'non-belief' in many things, including a great many things you've not even thought about. Atheists may have their beliefs, but their atheism at their core is a non-belief, an absence of belief, absence of an opinion. The atheist may believe that gods do not exist, but that's additional to atheism.

Generally I use the Oxford Dictionary for my definitions over dictionary.com, sometimes I find their definitions aren't as accurate as Oxford's. Dictionary.com fails to mention 'non-belief', which is actually different to 'disbelief'.

1.	http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/atheism?q=atheism

[Historicity]

Hello, and welcome.

Just don't try to "Save" us and i'm sure we'll get along just fine..

Nick tried to save him.

[Brakeman]

Bluey,
You can try to save me and convert me all you want. If you really have a real relationship with god that is not all made up in your head, I'd be thrilled to hear about it. As a matter of fact, since I am wanting to hear the word of god, you are duty bound by Jesus' command to share it with me. But I guess you know that.. Start a topic and invite me..

[ann]

Just wanted to say hello. I'm Annie. I'm not sure what I believe in, but I love to learn about theology and have so many questions.

[kin hell]

Just wanted to say hello. I'm Annie. I'm not sure what I believe in, but I love to learn about theology and have so many questions.

Hello ann

welcome.

It's no big deal but you might just consider posting your introduction in a separate thread, otherwise it may be lost here under Blueys.

anyway ........... I look forward to hearing some of your many questions

[magicmiles]

Hi Ann

I agree with Kin Hell...might be good to start your own introduction thread now that you have posted 3 times.

Kin Hell and I are both Australians - this gives us a natural advantage in wisdom. Ask us anything. Just don't ask me about science. Or maths.