Main Discussion Zone > Why Won't God Heal Amputees?

My Opinion on WWGHA?

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Co.Inkadink:
Here is my take. God knew these people were going to be amputated. He knew they were going to lose a limb. If he didn't want them to he wouldn't have allowed them to lose a limb in the first place.

Why should God heal amputees anyway? Is there some reason he should? Jesus never did, he healed a man with a withered hand but he didn't produce a full new hand just restored the old one. He healed leprosy and blindness and deafness so I suppose he produced working parts where none were. With the deaf man he even allowed him to understand language and words that he had never heard before. Even if God did this it wouldn't make people give their lives to Him. The 9 Lepers didn't even thank him, the children of Israel complained about the food that fell out of the sky every day, the 5000 that were fed didn't stand by Jesus and all follow him they just wanted him to keep providing food.
He didn't heal Mephibosheth who was Jonathan's son in the old testament from being lame, he didn't heal Paul's thorn in the flesh and Paul had great faith.
BTW on your introduction page Matthew 18:19 is about church discipline and not about prayer, you really should read the verses before it and after. I know it's cliche but it's true you really shouldn't take things out of context. There are several verses out of context there and all over this site. I'm assuming you really don't know this. I'm assuming none of you know Greek or Hebrew or have access to it. Here's help http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.cfm Also Jesus used Metaphors too and you should learn some textual criticism and Apologetics it would help when talking about the bible. I read Atheist authors regularly.
One more thing. from your front page.

--- Quote ---Key Point
No matter how many people pray, no matter how often they pray, no matter how sincere they are, no matter how much they believe, no matter how deserving the amputee, what we know is that prayers do not inspire God to regenerate amputated legs. This happens despite what Jesus promises us in Matthew 21:21, John 14:14, Mark 11:24, etc.
--- End quote ---
How can you possibly know this? I know you BELIEVE this and it sounds like you BELIEVE it's an absolute fact which I didn't think Atheists held. Anyway I'd like to see your scientific studies that you've done on this with all the faithful Christians you've tested it on.
There are scientific studies right? You didn't just put this statement up there because you BELIEVE IT BY FAITH DID YOU?

I'm not trying to start trouble here. I would just like to have a discussion based on Logic Reason and scientific facts about your conclusions. That is what Atheists are all about right?

kaziglu bey:

--- Quote from: Co.Inkadink on April 10, 2012, 05:14:57 AM ---Here is my take. God knew these people were going to be amputated. He knew they were going to lose a limb. If he didn't want them to he wouldn't have allowed them to lose a limb in the first place.
--- End quote ---
Yet you are going to say that God/Jesus has healed other things, even though in those situations, it is also obvious that God wanted them to be in such a state. If he didn't want them to he wouldn't have allowed them to lose a limb be blind in the first place.


--- Quote ---Why should God heal amputees anyway? Is there some reason he should? Jesus never did, he healed a man with a withered hand but he didn't produce a full new hand just restored the old one.
--- End quote ---
But why even do that, if God had wanted it to be withered in the first place? The "logic" that you claim as if it were self evident regarding amputees should be equally applicable to any illness, injury, or birth defect. If it is such an obvious explanation for amputees, then it is for all other conditions as well. Why would God intervene in any of them?
--- Quote ---He healed leprosy and blindness and deafness so I suppose he produced working parts where none were. With the deaf man he even allowed him to understand language and words that he had never heard before.
--- End quote ---
Well if God can ignore your principle in all of these situations, he can be gracious enough to do it for amputees too.
--- Quote ---Even if God did this it wouldn't make people give their lives to Him. The 9 Lepers didn't even thank him, the children of Israel complained about the food that fell out of the sky every day, the 5000 that were fed didn't stand by Jesus and all follow him they just wanted him to keep providing food.
--- End quote ---
This is only making your case weaker, you realize. Then why not heal an amputee?
--- Quote ---He didn't heal Mephibosheth who was Jonathan's son in the old testament from being lame, he didn't heal Paul's thorn in the flesh and Paul had great faith.
--- End quote ---
Then why not, when he allegedly does so much healing?

--- Quote --- BTW on your introduction page Matthew 18:19 is about church discipline
--- End quote ---
Actually it's about how to handle a brother who has sinned against you.
--- Quote --- and not about prayer, you really should read the verses before it and after.
--- End quote ---
I have done so just now, and find that the idea of the "two brothers" asking for the same thing and receiving it by God's grace to be consistent with the notion of answered prayer.
--- Quote --- I know it's cliche but it's true you really shouldn't take things out of context. There are several verses out of context there and all over this site.
--- End quote ---
Please explain to us what the proper context is for ripping children from their mother's uterus, smashing babies' head on rocks, raping adolescent girls, and massacring entire tribes.
--- Quote --- I'm assuming you really don't know this. I'm assuming none of you know Greek or Hebrew or have access to it. Here's help http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.cfm
--- End quote ---
Myself? No, but there are those on this site that are, in fact familiar with such things. One has to question the value of a translated book, when the individual reader cannot be certain of the meaning of anything without knowing several other languages and having access to the Biblical texts within those languages, and being skilled enough to accurately interpret them. You might say that is what the Biblical scholars are for, but WHO TRANSLATED THE BIBLE? Biblical scholars. We are relying on their translation. Which version of the Bible is the right one? There are hundreds to choose from.
--- Quote --- Also Jesus used Metaphors too and you should learn some textual criticism
--- End quote ---
We apply the same textual criticisms to the Bible as we would any other work of fiction, thats why we are atheists
--- Quote --- and Apologetics it would help when talking about the bible.
--- End quote ---
God shouldn't need apologetics to explain away all of the problems with the Bible. It should be perfect. Christians think that it IS perfect. If so, why the need for apologetics at all??
--- Quote ---I read Atheist authors regularly.
--- End quote ---
Well at least you read something of value.

--- Quote ---One more thing. from your front page.
Key Point
No matter how many people pray, no matter how often they pray, no matter how sincere they are, no matter how much they believe, no matter how deserving the amputee, what we know is that prayers do not inspire God to regenerate amputated legs. This happens despite what Jesus promises us in Matthew 21:21, John 14:14, Mark 11:24, etc.
How can you possibly know this? I know you BELIEVE this and it sounds like you BELIEVE it's an absolute fact which I didn't think Atheists held. Anyway I'd like to see your scientific studies that you've done on this with all the faithful Christians you've tested it on.
There are scientific studies right? You didn't just put this statement up there because you BELIEVE IT BY FAITH DID YOU?
--- End quote ---
I don't see why you are protesting this, since you yourself said that God will not heal amputees. YOU would anticipate that no amputees would be healed just as much as we would. Additionally, considering all of the (bogus) stories of faith healing in other medical cases, you would think there would be at least one (even if it was bogus) case of a restored, previously missing limb. If such a thing were to happen it would NOT be overlooked, ESPECIALLY by believers such as yourself.


--- Quote ---I'm not trying to start trouble here. I would just like to have a discussion based on Logic Reason and scientific facts about your conclusions. That is what Atheists are all about right?

--- End quote ---
Then how about providing us some scientific facts that support the conclusion "The Bible is true and God is real". We've asked the same of every believer who comes here. We have yet to be presented with a single piece of actual evidence to support such a claim.

Historicity:

--- Quote from: Co.Inkadink on April 10, 2012, 05:14:57 AM ---Here is my take. God knew these people were going to be amputated. He knew they were going to lose a limb. If he didn't want them to he wouldn't have allowed them to lose a limb in the first place.

--- End quote ---
Which means that prayer doesn't do anything because it would require a perfect God to change a perfect decision He has already made.


--- Quote ---Why should God heal amputees anyway? Is there some reason he should?
--- End quote ---
To perform a miracle that is clearly not spontaneous remission or hysterical blindness or deafness.


--- Quote ---Jesus never did
--- End quote ---
Nor did he move a mountain.  Nor has any Christian had enough faith to have the telekinetic powers to move a mountain in 2000 years of Christanity.


--- Quote ---BTW on your introduction page Matthew 18:19 is about church discipline and not about prayer, you really should read the verses before it and after. I know it's cliche but it's true you really shouldn't take things out of context.
--- End quote ---

Here they are:

--- Quote ---18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
--- End quote ---
That doesn't change anything.


--- Quote --- Also Jesus used Metaphors too and you should learn some textual criticism and Apologetics it would help when talking about the bible.
--- End quote ---

Most everyone here has.  You are at least disingenuous.

velkyn:

--- Quote from: Co.Inkadink on April 10, 2012, 05:14:57 AM ---Here is my take. God knew these people were going to be amputated. He knew they were going to lose a limb. If he didn't want them to he wouldn't have allowed them to lose a limb in the first place.
--- End quote ---
  Cool!  So your god wants people to be in pain, lose their jobs, etc.  Now please explain why.

--- Quote ---Why should God heal amputees anyway? Is there some reason he should? Jesus never did, he healed a man with a withered hand but he didn't produce a full new hand just restored the old one. He healed leprosy and blindness and deafness so I suppose he produced working parts where none were. With the deaf man he even allowed him to understand language and words that he had never heard before. Even if God did this it wouldn't make people give their lives to Him. The 9 Lepers didn't even thank him, the children of Israel complained about the food that fell out of the sky every day, the 5000 that were fed didn't stand by Jesus and all follow him they just wanted him to keep providing food.
--- End quote ---
Wow, nice excuses there, and reviling what your fellow Christians have claimed.  They claim that this god heals all sorts of things. But it’s pretty convenient that this god heals nothing obvious.  And no your Jesus healed nothing.  There are stories of this but no evidence whatsoever.  One may as well believe that the Hindu gods have healed people or that Allah has.  Same myths, different gods and the same lack of evidence.  I do agree, it’s funny that the Israelites bitched and whined so much but it isn’t so myseriosu when one considered is just a “just-so” story to explain why bad things happen to people.

--- Quote ---He didn't heal Mephibosheth who was Jonathan's son in the old testament from being lame, he didn't heal Paul's thorn in the flesh and Paul had great faith.
--- End quote ---
Yep, he fails at healing.  He even kills David’s son for David’s sin.  What a good and fair god! &)  Yep, this god fails in healing the farther the stories get from the myths of the old testament.  Isn’t that convenient too!  Since people were questioning more and more, this poor god has to retreat into the gaps and has kept on doing so ever since.

--- Quote ---BTW on your introduction page Matthew 18:19 is about church discipline and not about prayer, you really should read the verses before it and after. I know it's cliche but it's true you really shouldn't take things out of context. There are several verses out of context there and all over this site. I'm assuming you really don't know this. I'm assuming none of you know Greek or Hebrew or have access to it. Here's help http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.cfm
--- End quote ---
ah yes, the common claims that the Christian knows what this god “really” meant and how their interpretation is the only “right” one, aka the magic decoder ring.  Yep, every single theist claims the same thing and has no more evidence than the next that his claims are the only “real” ones.  It’s great fun to watch how this happens and to already be familiar with the bible so I know that the Christian is simply lying in an attempt to excuse his primitive and ignorant god and book.

--- Quote ---Also Jesus used Metaphors too and you should learn some textual criticism and Apologetics it would help when talking about the bible. I read Atheist authors regularly.
--- End quote ---
oh, that magic decoder ring again.  So is the resurrection a metaphor or not? How do you know?
 
--- Quote ---How can you possibly know this? I know you BELIEVE this and it sounds like you BELIEVE it's an absolute fact which I didn't think Atheists held. Anyway I'd like to see your scientific studies that you've done on this with all the faithful Christians you've tested it on.
--- End quote ---
How can I believe it (btw, I’m not the author of the site)?  I know that no miracle claimed by a theist of any kind has ever been supported by evidence. Ever.  We have claims of miracles happening but never any actual evidence, no objective observers, no medical records, nothing.  Now if this actually did happen, that the believers in JC did have the magical powers that he promised them, why does no one talk about it?  It’d be a great recruitment tool for new believers.  Now, here’s where many Christians try to excuse the lack of actual miracles done by them by saying that this god only wants faith and if it gave undeniable miracles this would abrogate free will.  However, I’ve read the bible, as a believer and as not, and I know this god had no problem with using miracles for the express purpose to get people to worship it.

--- Quote ---There are scientific studies right? You didn't just put this statement up there because you BELIEVE IT BY FAITH DID YOU?
--- End quote ---
What “scientific studies” that have supported that prayer will heal amputees?  If you know of any, please give me a link to them or cite the journal they were published in and the authors. 

--- Quote ---I'm not trying to start trouble here. I would just like to have a discussion based on Logic Reason and scientific facts about your conclusions. That is what Atheists are all about right?
--- End quote ---
  Well, if you actually had some scientific facts that supported your lies, or reason that would be good.  Logic can be useful but one can come to erroneous conclusions by logic if your presuppositions can’t be shown to be true. 

Hatter23:

--- Quote from: Co.Inkadink on April 10, 2012, 05:14:57 AM ---Here my take. Ugabuga knew people were going be amputated. He knew were going to lose limb. If he didn't want to he wouldn't allowed them lose a limb in first place.

Why should Ugagabuga heal amputees anyway? Is some reason he should? King Agga never did, he healed man withwithered hand but he didn't produce full new hand just restored old one. He healed leprosy and blindness and deafness so I suppose he produced working part where none were. With deaf man he even allowed him understand language and words he had never heard before. Even if Ugabuga did this it wouldn't make people give live Him. 9 Lepers didn't even thank him, children of Islands complained about  food that fell out of sky every day, the 5000 that fed didn't stand by King Agga and all follow they just wanted him keep providing food.

He didn't heal Mesoth who was Ghan's son in the ancient scrolls from being lame, he didn't heal Kon Ti's thorn in flesh and Kon Ti had great faith.

BTW on your introduction page Ancient Scroll Gigi 18:19 is about Shaman followers discipline and not about prayer, you really should read verses before it and after. I know it cliche but it true you really shouldn't take things out context. Are several verses out context there and all over site. I assuming you really don't know this. I'm assuming none of you know  Tangoan-Santo or Malekula or have access to it. Here help:

www.wikipedia

Also King Agga use Metaphors too and you should learn some scroll criticism and Apologetics it would help when talking about Ancient scrolls. I read Atheist author regularly.


--- End quote ---

How can I seperate this from your statement?

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