Can one be an atheist for the "wrong" reasons?

[Johnny Spunkypants]

If someone was an atheist but based it on nothing more than looking around and feeling that it's all just material and that there's nothing else, who here would consider that a wrong reason?

Peace.

[velkyn]

If someone was an atheist but based it on nothing more than looking around and feeling that it's all just material and that there's nothing else, who here would consider that a wrong reason?

Peace.

that's pretty much my reason to be an atheist.  Unless you have evidence of something other than the "material" aka reality, there's no reason to believe in anything else.  This is why I do not believe in ghosts, gods, spirits, fairies, etc.  Woomeisters waving their hands and saying "oooh look at me, I know a magic secret" with nothing to support it don't impress me.

EDIT:  I would replace the word "feeling" with knowing to the best of my abilities.  Feeling somethign is worthless.

[Star Stuff]

If someone was an atheist but based it on nothing more than looking around and feeling that it's all just material and that there's nothing else, who here would consider that a wrong reason?

Is the existance of what we can observe made easier or harder to explain by suggesting the existance of things we cannot observe?

Please answer.  Easier, or harder?

[Johnny Spunkypants]

Is the existance of what we can observe made easier or harder to explain by suggesting the existance of things we cannot observe?

Please answer.  Easier, or harder?

To answer your question with a question, how is its easyness or difficulty an issue?

Peace.

[Ice Monkey]

If someone was an atheist but based it on nothing more than looking around and feeling that it's all just material and that there's nothing else, who here would consider that a wrong reason?

Peace.

I'm pulled both ways on this one.  I would think that a simple look around would suffice, yet I don't think I'm fully comfortable with that answer.  The universe does appear as we'd expect it to were there no gods, but I think more evidence than what we can merely observe has been presented.

Mark me as undecided.  We may be getting into agnostic vs atheist, and such conversations often leave me with little more than a migraine.

[Johnny Spunkypants]

Ice Monkey, let me a throw out a question to make this more interesting. What would a universe with a god be like?

Peace.

[Star Stuff]

To answer your question with a question, how is its easyness or difficulty an issue?

It directly pertains to your previous comment.  Please have the courage to answer the simple, straight ahead question.

[Johnny Spunkypants]

It directly pertains to your previous comment.  Please have the courage to answer the simple, straight ahead question.

Sometimes it's interesting to know the reason for a question.

Peace.

[Ice Monkey]

Ice Monkey, let me a throw out a question to make this more interesting. What would a universe with a god be like?

Peace.

One that appeared to be designed by whim, not naturally-occuring processes that adhere to laws of physics, as well as one with more love and less empty space.  It would be similar to the descriptions of heaven.

[Star Stuff]

Sometimes it's interesting to know the reason for a question.

So basically we should take from this that when presented with a simple question which challenges your position, you abandon intellectual honesty and squirm, wriggle and contort under the pressure.  Please just answer the question.

[Johnny Spunkypants]

One that appeared to be designed by whim, not naturally-occuring processes that adhere to laws of physics, as well as one with more love and less empty space.  It would be similar to the descriptions of heaven.

How would you make judgements on that, if it would be the only universe you would know?

Peace.

[Ice Monkey]

How would you make judgements on that, if it would be the only universe you would know?

Peace.

If the only knew a universe that was already like that, I wouldn't be questioning it in the first place.

[Johnny Spunkypants]

So basically we should take from this that when presented with a simple question which challenges your position, you abandon intellectual honesty and squirm, wriggle and contort under the pressure.  Please just answer the question.

You answered my question with a question, and I don't mind that. I'd like to go back at some point to see what your answer to my question is, but for now I'm quite happy to take the detour that you've created with your question to me.

Peace.

[Johnny Spunkypants]

If the only knew a universe that was already like that, I wouldn't be questioning it in the first place.

That creates a dilemma doesn't it? We can only observe the universe that we're faced with.

Peace.

[velkyn]

That creates a dilemma doesn't it? We can only observe the universe that we're faced with.

Peace.

Indeed. And there is no evidence for anything but what we can observe and detect.  Therefore, since there is nothing demonstrating that there is anythign supernatural at work, there is no reason to accept a "God" and atheism is the supported stance.

[Star Stuff]

Sometimes it's interesting to know the reason for a question.

To know your answer to that question.

[Ice Monkey]

If the only knew a universe that was already like that, I wouldn't be questioning it in the first place.

That creates a dilemma doesn't it? We can only observe the universe that we're faced with.

Peace.

Correct, though I can easily imagine other ones.  I suppose if I lived in a universe where god skipped a step and all was as in heaven, I could ask myself what a universe just left to it's own devices (natural processes) might be like.

[Johnny Spunkypants]

Correct, though I can easily imagine other ones.  I suppose if I lived in a universe where god skipped a step and all was as in heaven, I could ask myself what a universe just left to it's own devices (natural processes) might be like.

I don't believe in heaven so I don't know what to say about that. I suppose all we can do is just look at what we've got and try and make sense of it in whatever way feels right to us.

Peace.

[Johnny Spunkypants]

Indeed. And there is no evidence for anything but what we can observe and detect.  Therefore, since there is nothing demonstrating that there is anythign supernatural at work, there is no reason to accept a "God" and atheism is the supported stance.

I don't believe in supernatural gods. I don't even know how that would work.

Peace.

[Alzael]

I don't believe in supernatural gods. I don't even know how that would work.

Peace.

Actually you do. That's why you give it supernatual qualities.

I also note that you refuse to give a single straight and honest answer to anything that you say. Might I point out that dodging and stonewalling are against the rules.

[Johnny Spunkypants]

Actually you do. That's why you give it supernatual qualities.

I also note that you refuse to give a single straight and honest answer to anything that you say. Might I point out that dodging and stonewalling are against the rules.

What qualities do I give it that are supernatural? As for dodging, there's nothing wrong with addressing a question with a question. It's not dodging, it's getting to the heart of the question, and it is useful, which is why people do it. Star Stuff did it, and I did it.

Peace.

[jaimehlers]

You answered my question with a question, and I don't mind that. I'd like to go back at some point to see what your answer to my question is, but for now I'm quite happy to take the detour that you've created with your question to me.

No, you answered his question with a question.  And while asking about the relevance of a question is not usually inappropriate, it is when you give the impression of dodging the question by pedantically insisting that your question be answered first.  You can surely answer whether it's easier or harder to explain the existence of things we can observe by postulating things we cannot without giving Star Stuff the third degree on why he asked you the question in the first place.

[Alzael]

What qualities do I give it that are supernatural?

These for starters.

Qualities : Loving, infinite, superbly creative and playful, self existent, mysterious, perfect, omnipresent, omniscient, omnipotent, lovely and pretty damn sexy.

Peace and blessings.

As for dodging, there's nothing wrong with addressing a question with a question. It's not dodging, it's getting to the heart of the question, and it is useful, which is why people do it. Star Stuff did it, and I did it.

Peace.

I was speaking in regards to your overall behaviour. Hence why I said "I also note that you refuse to give a single straight and honest answer to anything that you say."

At no point did I mention your back and forth with Star Stuff in particular. But while we're on that subject, you can feel free to respond to that now.

[Johnny Spunkypants]

I asked a question, and then star stuff responded with a question. I have no problem with that. Then I responded to his question with a question, and now everyone has a problem with that, including star stuff, who is the very person who started the whole thing by responding to a question with a question. It looks like double standards. Everything that can be said has been said and I won't waste any more of my energy on this conversation.

Peace.

[Johnny Spunkypants]

Alzael, the question is, are those qualities supernatural? What do you think, and why?

Peace.

[Alzael]

I asked a question, and then star stuff responded with a question. I have no problem with that. Then I responded to his question with a question, and now everyone has a problem with that, including star stuff, who is the very person who started the whole thing by responding to a question with a question. It looks like double standards. Everything that can be said has been said and I won't waste any more of my energy on this conversation.

Peace.

It is not a double standard. It is a cowardly cop out on your part. Please respond to Star Stuffs question now.

[Strawman]

Post was heavily updated so I re-posted it and removed from here.

[Johnny Spunkypants]

Please respond to Star Stuffs question now.[/b][/color]

No.

Peace.

[Alzael]

Alzael, the question is, are those qualities supernatural? What do you think, and why?

Peace.

Well for starters onmipotence would necessarily mean possessing the ability to go beyond the limits of logic and the natural world.

Also since two things cannot occupy the same space at one time, in order for god to be omnipresent he would have to be somehow able to co-exist as a conscious that has no physical presence. No physical presence means that he cannot be natural.

And he is supposedly all-knowing, which means he has knowledge of all things anywhere. Which would necessitate the possession of many supernatural abilities. Such as telepathy, and clairvoyance.