Author Topic: How did you become an atheist?  (Read 1264 times)

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Offline Johnny Spunkypants

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2012, 03:08:19 PM »
By the way, how is me saying "peace" or "peace and blessings" offensive? How does that work?

Peace.
I'm not here to defend my views. I'm here simply to give my two cents.

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2012, 03:14:08 PM »
As I mentioned (and even gave you a -1 for it), it's condescending.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
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Offline Johnny Spunkypants

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #31 on: April 08, 2012, 03:18:23 PM »
How is it condescending?

Peace.
I'm not here to defend my views. I'm here simply to give my two cents.

Offline Azdgari

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2012, 03:24:14 PM »
Well for starters, there's the clear implication that the one you are speaking to does not already have peace, and requires your appeal to the divine in order to achieve it.
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Offline Johnny Spunkypants

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #33 on: April 08, 2012, 03:30:40 PM »
Well for starters, there's the clear implication that the one you are speaking to does not already have peace, and requires your appeal to the divine in order to achieve it.

Not at all, no. You could be the most peaceful person in the world and you'd still get wished peace. If you don't have peace, I wish you peace. If you do have peace, I wish you more peace, and I wish for your peace to last. You're assuming that I'm doing it in the name of the "divine" (whatever that is), but as I said before, I'm not. There's nothing offensive or condescending about wishing someone the best, regardless of their circumstances. It's a crazy world when that is assumed to be the case. Don't make assumptions about where I'm coming from when I say "peace". It's got nothing to do with religion. I make no claim to have any influence over how much peace you have, or to be in communion with a source that does, the purpose is to express my personal wishes. Like when someone says "all the best" or "good luck".

You said "for starters", and I've addressed your point. What else is there?

Peace.
I'm not here to defend my views. I'm here simply to give my two cents.

Online One Above All

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #34 on: April 08, 2012, 03:33:54 PM »
Since you do not appear to be very intelligent, I'm going to give you a few pieces of advice:
If you do not want people to think you are condescending, you shouldn't say things they perceive as such. If you do not want people to think you are trolling, you shouldn't insult them by being condescending.
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Alzael

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #35 on: April 08, 2012, 03:34:43 PM »
Well for starters, there's the clear implication that the one you are speaking to does not already have peace, and requires your appeal to the divine in order to achieve it.

Not to mention the presumption that the person in question wants such a thing. Or wants it from him. Or even his version of it. It's essentially like trying to impose your own views on someone else.

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Offline ParkingPlaces

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #36 on: April 08, 2012, 03:35:06 PM »
Spunky, your salutation is probably the same one Michael Jackson used when parents dropped off their little boys to play with him at Neverland.

Those of us not involved with hocus-pocus consider the efficacy of banal pleasantries to be minimal and not worth the effort. And we get way too many christians here who say they are praying for us. We'd rather just hear your ideas and opinions and reasons. Your personal wishes are totally irrelevant, and even less welcome.

Think of all the keystrokes we're saving you.
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Offline Alzael

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #37 on: April 08, 2012, 03:37:28 PM »
Well for starters, there's the clear implication that the one you are speaking to does not already have peace, and requires your appeal to the divine in order to achieve it.

Not at all, no. You could be the most peaceful person in the world and you'd still get wished peace. If you don't have peace, I wish you peace. If you do have peace, I wish you more peace, and I wish for your peace to last. You're assuming that I'm doing it in the name of the "divine" (whatever that is), but as I said before, I'm not. There's nothing offensive or condescending about wishing someone the best, regardless of their circumstances. It's a crazy world when that is assumed to be the case. Don't make assumptions about where I'm coming from when I say "peace". It's got nothing to do with religion. I make no claim to have any influence over how much peace you have, or to be in communion with a source that does, the purpose is to express my personal wishes. Like when someone says "all the best" or "good luck".

You said "for starters", and I've addressed your point. What else is there?

Peace.

See this is condescending and offensive especially since you've been told how others view it. So you're intentionally being dickish by doing it.
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

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Offline Azdgari

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #38 on: April 08, 2012, 03:47:24 PM »
Not at all convincing, Spunky.  Put it in a slightly different context for a second, and put it more explicitly:

"John, I am going to request divine intervention to make sure that your marriage works out."

Eh?  Why would someone say that, unless they believed that the marriage might be in some kind of jeopardy?  Jeopardy that requires prayer of some sort to resolve?  Now, consider how that implication works when told to someone who doesn't believe that prayer does anything in the first place.  It's an expression of hopelessness for the person's situation.  It's an insult.

"Peace" on its own doesn't do that.  "Peace" just expresses goodwill.  Saying something to the effect of "I am going to seek divine intervention to try to ensure that you have peace" conveys a much different meaning.  Knowing this, will you change your behaviour?
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Offline Johnny Spunkypants

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #39 on: April 08, 2012, 03:48:17 PM »
It's nice to be liked, but it's far more important to be oneself. Wishing someone the best is not imposing one's views on them at all, it is just wishing them the best, there's no connection, they're two different things altogether. Some may consider pleasantries to be trivial and irrelevant, in which case they can treat them as such by ignoring them. And anyway I do it at the end of each post, not in the middle of it, so it doesn't interfere with the post.

Peace.
I'm not here to defend my views. I'm here simply to give my two cents.

Offline Johnny Spunkypants

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2012, 03:49:51 PM »
Alzael, you gave me a thumbs up, but the comment doesn't go with it.

Peace.
I'm not here to defend my views. I'm here simply to give my two cents.

Offline Alzael

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2012, 03:54:40 PM »
Alzael, you gave me a thumbs up, but the comment doesn't go with it.

Peace.

That was a mistake. It will be fixed soon.

At least you've finally come out and admitted to just being a troll though. The pretense was getting rather tiresome.

It's nice to be liked, but it's far more important to be oneself. Wishing someone the best is not imposing one's views on them at all, it is just wishing them the best, there's no connection, they're two different things altogether. Some may consider pleasantries to be trivial and irrelevant, in which case they can treat them as such by ignoring them. And anyway I do it at the end of each post, not in the middle of it, so it doesn't interfere with the post.

Peace.

So yourself is someone who is intentionally offensive and insensitive towards the feelings and desires of others?
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

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Offline Johnny Spunkypants

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2012, 04:05:51 PM »
I'm sorry but there's nothing more for me to say. I've explained that my intentions aren't to offend, condescend or patronise. I've also explained that it's not a religious thing, it's not a prayer, it's just me wishing you the best. I've explained that I don't necessarily think you're lacking peace, and that it doesn't interfere with the post, and so on and so forth.

If you want to take this up with the admin, please go ahead. If they decide that I shouldn't do it any more, I won't. But what I will do instead is express my wish for peace and whatever blessings come to mind with the final full stop in my posts. That way I won't be saying it literally but I'll still be expressing it. And until then I'll continue doing it, as this is who I am. Everything that has been said against my saying "peace" has been addressed. If you have a problem with it, take it up with someone else. I won't waste any more of my energy on this conversation.

Peace.
I'm not here to defend my views. I'm here simply to give my two cents.

Offline albeto

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2012, 04:08:25 PM »
It's just me wishing you the best. I know what you mean about anthropomorphising the universe, or the manifestor of the universe, and I'm always very careful about that. I'm happy to use terms like "he" when referring to god, but that's just because it's a common term, but personally I prefer to say "it". It's not easy to refer to god without speaking as if it's a person, but language is limited and sometimes you have to use the words that are available if it makes espressing an idea easier. So what about your spiritual ideas?

So how does it (the universe?) "bless" someone?

Peace.

What about it? 

Offline Alzael

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2012, 04:13:09 PM »
I'm sorry but there's nothing more for me to say. I've explained that my intentions aren't to offend, condescend or patronise. I've also explained that it's not a religious thing, it's not a prayer, it's just me wishing you the best. I've explained that I don't necessarily think you're lacking peace, and that it doesn't interfere with the post, and so on and so forth.

If you want to take this up with the admin, please go ahead. If they decide that I shouldn't do it any more, I won't. But what I will do instead is express my wish for peace and whatever blessings come to mind with the final full stop in my posts. That way I won't be saying it literally but I'll still be expressing it. And until then I'll continue doing it, as this is who I am. Everything that has been said against my saying "peace" has been addressed. If you have a problem with it, take it up with someone else. I won't waste any more of my energy on this conversation.

Peace.

So in other words you require that a mod tell you directly not to be a dick?
"I drank what?!"- Socrates

"Dying for something when you know you'll be resurrected is not a sacrifice.It's a parlour trick."- an aquaintance

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Offline shnozzola

Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #45 on: April 08, 2012, 04:16:13 PM »
I couldn't quite put my finger on it, and then it hit me-
           "Peace be with you"    " Peace and Tranquility"   "You will know the peace of Landru"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Return_of_the_Archons
where the planet was run by a robot to end hostility   or   you would be absorbed.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 04:19:45 PM by shnozzola »
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Offline jetson

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #46 on: April 08, 2012, 05:24:51 PM »
Johnny Spunkypants,

Using "Peace" by itself is sufficient.  Thanks.

Jetson

Offline Johnny Spunkypants

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #47 on: April 08, 2012, 05:30:11 PM »
Johnny Spunkypants,

Using "Peace" by itself is sufficient.  Thanks.

Jetson


I appreciate that. The blessings are just my little extra, nothing religious, just a gesture of goodwill, nothing more nothing less. But I take it I can't do that any more. That's cool. I can compromise. By the way why am I being watched? It feels spooky.

Peace.
I'm not here to defend my views. I'm here simply to give my two cents.

Offline Ice Monkey

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #48 on: April 08, 2012, 07:25:19 PM »

It's just me wishing you the best. I know what you mean about anthropomorphising the universe, or the manifestor of the universe, and I'm always very careful about that. I'm happy to use terms like "he" when referring to god, but that's just because it's a common term, but personally I prefer to say "it". It's not easy to refer to god without speaking as if it's a person, but language is limited and sometimes you have to use the words that are available if it makes espressing an idea easier. So what about your spiritual ideas?

Peace.

Still confused - you refer to god as a he, though you're really referring to the universe.  Wouldn't it just be less confusing to refer to it as the universe?  I can see how people can become confused by you from the first greeting.  I'm trying to get away from getting caught up in ambiguous language.  Many atheists do, hence our search for a better term than "atheist".  Free-thinker, naturalist, Bright... haven't found one yet that conveyed a concise idea like "atheist" but didn't carry the same negative connotations.

My spirituality?  I don't know how to summarize it.  I'll just throw some thoughts out:
I do feel connected to the world around me, and I'm trying to leave it better off than when I got here.  That's pretty much it.  If I have one person at my funeral who wasn't there because they had to be, I'd say life had been good.

I feel that the bible is the Golden Rule, with the rest being editorial filler that does nothing to improve upon said Rule, and should be jettisoned unceremoniously. 

New Age isn't an improvement from Old Age movements - just distractions from keeping you from getting at stuff you knew you should be doing all along.  People bounce from new age movements like they do from self-help book to self-help book.  I'm looking for no crutch, or an easy way out.
 
The most important opinion in the world to me is my own.  I gotta spend an awful lot of time with me, so it's important that I don't do anything to piss me off, or lose my respect. 

I wasn't actually expecting to live this long, so I need a solid Plan B.  Don't take myself too seriously, but if I really need a hand, I should be the first to offer one.  Usually works out because I trust myself.   Anything I need over and above what I can provide, I have no trouble finding in family, friends, aquaintences, and total strangers.

[/rambling]
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Offline Tinyal

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #49 on: April 08, 2012, 08:12:48 PM »

I appreciate that. The blessings are just my little extra, nothing religious, just a gesture of goodwill, nothing more nothing less. But I take it I can't do that any more. That's cool. I can compromise. By the way why am I being watched? It feels spooky.

Peace.

I do believe you are being watched due to the fact you are a troll (I'm not a mod, of course, so I could very easily be wrong).

As to using 'Peace' as 'something extra', or as a 'gesture of goodwill' - something along the lines of 'And Have  A Great Day!' is far more pleasant to receive (in my perception), and actually seems to suggest the sayer actually is wishing me a great day.

Peace - just the word by itself - means nothing to me ; as far as I'm concerned, I'll get plenty of peace in the grave, and I'm in no rush to get there.  Reminds me of back as a teenager (in the late 60's), when we 'hippies' would go around peacing everyone.  Orginally, it was said with meaning - with feelin' - and we used it to express our desire to see the opposite of war (Vietnam, specifically).

But no longer - used the way you are using it gives me the creepy feeling that you think you are - somehow - superior, that you know something I don't, that you actually think you have something I want - and you're giving me a piece of it just because you're so knowledgable, so very much in touch with the (insert whatever the hell you're talking about when you talk about a concious universe - absolutely no sign of which exists, unless it's a very evil, unforgiving & deadly conciousness).

I interpet it just the same as when people give me verbal diarheaa they call 'blessings' (and I'm sure that's actually the way you mean it, you just use that word cause you think it's oh so very kewl of you) - I don't need it, don't want it, don't even know what the hell they are talking about when they talk of blessings & peace.  Human's couldn't survive if everyone was peaceful - we are the smartest of the big apes, but apes nonetheless - if it wasn't for conflict & competition of some kind or another, we'd die out within a few dozen generations).

Reminds me of a great bumper sticker I used to have that said 'Prayer - it's the least you can do', which is, of course, precisely correct.

Peace being the least you can do.

In any case, even though I doubt you'll be here much longer (any bets?), for what it's worth (note: just like you're 'Peace', it's worth very little-to-nothing) let me say this to you:

Have a great day!

:)

[edit: altered a few bolds & quote marks]
« Last Edit: April 08, 2012, 08:15:10 PM by Tinyal »
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Offline 19yroldatheist

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #50 on: April 08, 2012, 09:38:26 PM »

I appreciate that. The blessings are just my little extra, nothing religious, just a gesture of goodwill, nothing more nothing less. But I take it I can't do that any more. That's cool. I can compromise. By the way why am I being watched? It feels spooky.

Peace.

I do believe you are being watched due to the fact you are a troll (I'm not a mod, of course, so I could very easily be wrong).

As to using 'Peace' as 'something extra', or as a 'gesture of goodwill' - something along the lines of 'And Have  A Great Day!' is far more pleasant to receive (in my perception), and actually seems to suggest the sayer actually is wishing me a great day.

Peace - just the word by itself - means nothing to me ; as far as I'm concerned, I'll get plenty of peace in the grave, and I'm in no rush to get there.  Reminds me of back as a teenager (in the late 60's), when we 'hippies' would go around peacing everyone.  Orginally, it was said with meaning - with feelin' - and we used it to express our desire to see the opposite of war (Vietnam, specifically).

But no longer - used the way you are using it gives me the creepy feeling that you think you are - somehow - superior, that you know something I don't, that you actually think you have something I want - and you're giving me a piece of it just because you're so knowledgable, so very much in touch with the (insert whatever the hell you're talking about when you talk about a concious universe - absolutely no sign of which exists, unless it's a very evil, unforgiving & deadly conciousness).

I interpet it just the same as when people give me verbal diarheaa they call 'blessings' (and I'm sure that's actually the way you mean it, you just use that word cause you think it's oh so very kewl of you) - I don't need it, don't want it, don't even know what the hell they are talking about when they talk of blessings & peace.  Human's couldn't survive if everyone was peaceful - we are the smartest of the big apes, but apes nonetheless - if it wasn't for conflict & competition of some kind or another, we'd die out within a few dozen generations).

Reminds me of a great bumper sticker I used to have that said 'Prayer - it's the least you can do', which is, of course, precisely correct.

Peace being the least you can do.

In any case, even though I doubt you'll be here much longer (any bets?), for what it's worth (note: just like you're 'Peace', it's worth very little-to-nothing) let me say this to you:

Have a great day!

:)

[edit: altered a few bolds & quote marks]

This reminds me of the argument people have over being polite and having table manners. In 100 years noone is going to care if you said please or thank you or ate with your fork facing downwards. It just shows respect and some say it stops society devolving back to primitive times when we would just kill and rape and not care about anyone else. Its like having rules for the sake of having them.

Ultimately, there is no objective meaning behind anything we do or say. Yet here we are, continuing to exist and live together. I say live and let live. Feel free to offer peace to me. It's equally meaningful as everything else that goes on here.

Offline Ice Monkey

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #51 on: April 08, 2012, 09:45:22 PM »


This reminds me of the argument people have over being polite and having table manners. In 100 years noone is going to care if you said please or thank you or ate with your fork facing downwards. It just shows respect and some say it stops society devolving back to primitive times when we would just kill and rape and not care about anyone else. Its like having rules for the sake of having them.

Ultimately, there is no objective meaning behind anything we do or say. Yet here we are, continuing to exist and live together. I say live and let live. Feel free to offer peace to me. It's equally meaningful as everything else that goes on here.

I don't mind him saying "peace" to me.  I take it like "cheers".

But if he says "peace out", I'm gonna slap him with so many lefts he'll beg for a right.
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Offline Seppuku

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #52 on: April 09, 2012, 06:25:40 AM »
It is a little annoying and don't understand it. I'm all for peace and everything, but it's kind of a redundancy so I wouldn't do anything like that at least.


Peace out.
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Offline Johnny Spunkypants

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #53 on: April 09, 2012, 09:01:42 AM »

I don't mind him saying "peace" to me.  I take it like "cheers".

But if he says "peace out", I'm gonna slap him with so many lefts he'll beg for a right.

Gimme your best shot.

Peace out.
I'm not here to defend my views. I'm here simply to give my two cents.

Offline DumpsterFire

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #54 on: April 09, 2012, 09:23:12 AM »
The "Peace" thing didn't bug me either at first, but then I realized it was also in your sig so you were essentially saying it twice every post. So now I see you have removed it from your sig but still say it every post. For some reason, I would be more comfortable with it if the reverse were true - put it back in your sig (if you must) and please stop putting it on every post. It would just seem less forced if it were something that automatically appears via your sig rather than something you actually make the effort (I realize it doesn't require a great deal of effort, that's not my point) to type Every. Single. Post.
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Offline Zankuu

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #55 on: April 09, 2012, 09:37:31 AM »
For those that find Johnny's "Peace" agitating- why? Timo has been ending his replies in "Peace" for nearly 900 posts and not one person has had a problem with it.
Leave nothing to chance. Overlook nothing. Combine contradictory observations. Allow yourself enough time. -Hippocrates of Cos

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #56 on: April 09, 2012, 09:46:57 AM »
For those that find Johnny's "Peace" agitating- why? Timo has been ending his replies in "Peace" for nearly 900 posts and not one person has had a problem with it.

I saw his latest 29 posts. He had it three times in said posts. Also, consider this:
Timo's posts per day - 1.332
OP's posts per day - 25.333
The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?
We choose our own gods.

A.K.A.: Blaziken_rjcf/Lucifer/All In One.

Offline Astreja

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Re: How did you become an atheist?
« Reply #57 on: April 09, 2012, 10:07:10 AM »
Getting back to Johnny's OP, I used to be an agnostic polytheist.  It all came crashing down when I asked Myself "Would I testify in a court of law that Oðinn, Athena or Shiva were real?"

The "No" that I got was so vehement that I found Myself an agnostic atheist about 10 seconds later.

ETA:  For a more in-depth explanation of My position, please read this essay I wrote back in 2009:

Agnostic Goddess Seeks Talking Snake for Fun and Companionship
« Last Edit: April 09, 2012, 10:12:28 AM by Astreja »
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