Author Topic: Plain Jane Complain  (Read 5603 times)

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Online jaimehlers

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Re: Plain Jane Complain
« Reply #87 on: May 09, 2012, 04:28:32 PM »
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.  Mockery seldom gets anything but more mockery.  Treat others as you want them to treat you, remember?
Pot, kettle.
That doesn't excuse your behavior towards them.  Or perhaps I should simply say, "kettle, pot".  Would that make my point clearer?

Quote from: Plain Jane
Well, you whine about it incessantly. What else can explain that?
That assumes I'm whining.  The fact is that I'm not.  I am criticizing you for your behavior without engaging in similar behavior.  Perhaps you would care to explain just why you consider that to be whining?  It might help explain things.

Quote from: Plain Jane
Bingo! Your treatment of all theists is evil.
Even if it were, which you would have to demonstrate, the admonition was not at the evil done to you, but at how you react to it.  And to be blunt, you're quite severely lacking in that.  Also, let me reiterate again the statement about "turning the other cheek".  If you get mocked, don't mock back.

Quote from: jaimehlers
...some time considering how your own behavior might be part of the problem.

Quote from: Plain Jane
No it isn't. You are famous all over the world of theist/atheist forums for your aggressive behavior towards theists. You ban them without a 2nd thought. You have an administrator who deletes posts he doesn't like and none of you will entertain the notion that you might possibly be wrong. It is funny and sad at the same time.
I'll assume you're talking about WWGHA here.  Well, given that I've been here for a year, and have seen numerous theists come and go, talking about various things without being banned, I think you had better reconsider saying that theists are banned without a second thought.  If this forum was the kind that banned theists (without a second thought) simply for being theists, I wouldn't still be a part of it.  HAL was moderating your off-topic posts in the thread he started, but it's pretty clear that he recognized that his reaction was excessive.  You'll note that he hasn't touched your posts anywhere else, I hope?  And as for the last, having spent almost a year here, and seeing people admit that they're wrong (and doing it myself when it was warranted), I again think that your accusation is off-base.

So, again, I urge you to consider how your own actions and attitude might be contributing to the problem.  Your immediate reaction was to deny that it could be possible and to level a rather ferocious accusation to try to show how any problems could only be on the side of the forum and its members.  This suggests that you didn't even so much as think about what part you might be playing in this.  You just got done accusing the forum members as a whole of being unwilling to entertain the notion that they might possibly be wrong, but when you seem completely unwilling to consider that you might be wrong, such an accusation rings falsely.

Offline Maggie the Opinionated

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Re: Plain Jane Complain
« Reply #88 on: May 09, 2012, 04:34:30 PM »
Plain Jane:
You say it is not worth your time to review my questions to you.
But....
a) You are willing to take the time to write about how my questions have no merit.
I said no such thing. Sending me off to review your posts was a demand on my time that was not fair to me. If you have questions ask them. But don't expect me to go find them.
 
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b)You have written several posts about how other people don't deserve to have their questions answered, either.
Evidence?

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c)You have written posts listing all the topics you will not address and why.
What is wrong with that?

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d)You have also written more than once of how educated and knowledgeable you are on this or that topic.
Certainly. There is not likely to be anyone here who has the depth of knowledge I have on the subjects that really interest me. The difference between me and so many here is that I don't offer opinions on subjects I don't know.

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That takes time and effort, plus it seems to be needlessly raising the level of hostility on this site, affecting you and everyone else here.
That isn't possible. What is new is that you have run into a theist who pushes back hard and won't take garbage from anyone.

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Wouldn't it be easier to just answer the questions or say you don't know?
If I am asked  actual honest questions, I am glad to answer them and I have. Too many questions are dishonest. Then there is that cute trick many of you have of telling me that I haven't answered a question because you don't like the answer. But nothing comes close to being as funny or annoying as Velkyn (or, at least, pre-ignore Velly) who, no matter what the actual issue I was addressing was, responded with an incoherent diatribe that covered dozens of issues in both the Old and the New Testaments. It would have required me to write a multi-volume set of books to answer all of that. No thanks. If I am going to write a book, I want to be paid for it.

Beyond that, I am not blowing you off. I have invited you to ask whatever questions you wish. But no, I won't go hunt for them.

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You spoke about how a teacher should answer a student. If my teen daughter honestly asked you what she should do to be a good Christian, would you give her a mean, sarcastic remark? What would you tell her? To start studying ancient Aramaic?
Of course not. What has the intellectual pursuit of philosophy, history or Near Eastern studies got to do with being a good Christian?

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To save you the trouble of locating and excavating my secret, well-hidden posts, here are some questions I want you to address: How does a Christian know whether a particular passage in the bible is meant literally, metaphorically or allegorically?

You bring to your reading the same tools of literary analysis that you started learning in Junior High School. The Bible is full of metaphors, similes, hyperbole (exaggeration), etc. One of my favorite examples of something really silly that gets thrown at us all the time is the demand to know why we can't move mountains, since Jesus said if we had just a little faith we could tell a mountain to hurl itself into the sea and it would do so. Well, lets think about that for a moment. What sort of world would we be living in, if some subset of people could move mountains at will? Would Mapquest be of any use to us? Honestly, even if one didn't know that this sort of hyperbole is a regular feature of rabbinic teaching, we use it all the time. Why would we not recognize it when Jesus uses it?

However, it is equally true that the Bible books were written in a very ancient culture in languages we don't know that have their own idioms and expressions. So a good commentary is absolutely necessary for study purposes.

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What passages are the most important and what can be ignored or interpreted as the person sees fit?
None of them can be ignored. None of them can be interpreted as one sees fit. Peter addressed that question when he wrote that no interpretation of scripture is a matter of private judgment.

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How does a person know if the church they are in has the correct interpretation of the bible? [/i]

You can't. That is the fundamental problem of Protestantism. Having adopted "sola scriptura" scripture alone as the rule of practice, and holding to a "every man can interpret it for himself" philosophy, Protestantism shot itself in the foot from the beginning. Since everyone can interpret it for himself, and since there is no reading, no matter how bizarre that can't find a few believers, we get the 34,000 or so sects and denominations that show no sign of slowing down. A Protestant who is lucky, might land in a church with sound teaching. If there are good classes available and an informed preacher, an individual would receive a lot of sound teaching. But how would he know?

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Why would anyone have to be a genius or a scholar of some arcane discipline to know what Jesus or god wants?  Most people around the world do not have the time or ability to study ANE languages or become doctoral level historians.
Not one single person needs to know any ancient language of obtain a Ph.D in history to know what God wants. But quite obviously, humans being what we are, many of us are curious about these things. Many of us long to know about the past and that requires formal study. No Christian qua Christian needs to bother with it.

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Are none of them worth your time either? Or does everyone have to learn whatever it is you think we need to know before you deign to respond without sarcasm, hostility or insults?
I respond (if I respond) as I am spoken to. When you make hostile, insulting, and sarcastic claims to knowledge that I know are garbage, I will call you on it.  It really is that simple. Address me civilly and you will get civility back. Address me as a whole slew of the gang here have, and it will call forth the appropriate degree of sarcasm in return.

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BTW, religious discussion sites often don't even want atheists to participate. Once you say you are an athiest, forget about it. Ban city. We like talking to theists on this site, because they won't talk to us on their sites.
I think what you mean is that they won't let you insult Christ. But yes, I have seen that they are too quick to ban.
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You have not been banned--why are you talking about being banned without a second thought? :?

Because  you all have a well-deserved reputation for aggression and for banning people. You have a top dog who deletes posts (theist posts, of course) whenever he feels like it-- and he feels like it when he can't answer them. He has removed my ability to give karma which is ok-- it was more amusing than anything else to smite some of the most aggressive types here, but it goes to show you. I will offer a weeks wages if you can show me where a single one of the nastiest people here who have repeatedly given me negative karma (many of them moderators &) ) have had their karma privileges revoked. There is such a double standard here it is unbelievable. And fascinating.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2012, 04:46:32 PM by Plain Jane »

Online jaimehlers

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Re: Plain Jane Complain
« Reply #89 on: May 09, 2012, 04:43:11 PM »
That isn't possible. What is new is that you have run into a theist who pushes back hard and won't take garbage from anyone.
I think it's worth pointing out that pushing back hard can actually cause you more harm than good in the long run.  It puts you off-balance mentally, it results in more of the same from the people who you're pushing back against.  I've personally found that the best way to deal with someone pushing you is to simply step out of the way, not to try to oppose them by pushing back.

Offline Seppuku

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Re: Plain Jane Complain
« Reply #90 on: May 09, 2012, 04:45:36 PM »
Quote from: Jane
Because  you all have a well-deserved reputation for aggression and for banning people. You have a top dog who deletes posts (theist posts, of course) whenever he feels like it-- and he feels like it when he can't answer them. He has removed my ability to give karma which is ok-- it was more amusing than anything else to smite some of the most aggressive types here, but it goes to show you. I will offer a weeks wages if you can show me where a single one of the nastiest people here who have repeatedly given me negative karma (many of them moderators  ) have had their karma privileges revoked. There is such a double standard here it is unbelievable. And fascinating.

See my last post.
“It is difficult to understand the universe if you only study one planet” - Miyamoto Musashi
Warning: I occassionally forget to proofread my posts to spot typos or to spot poor editing.

Offline Quesi

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Re: Plain Jane Complain
« Reply #91 on: May 09, 2012, 04:55:08 PM »


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b)You have written several posts about how other people don't deserve to have their questions answered, either.
Evidence?

Ok!  I think we have gotten to the bottom of the problem here.  Jane doesn't understand the concept of evidence.  That is why we are all getting so frustrated.

Let me help you out here.  Many people on this forum have repeatedly asked you for evidence which you have failed to produce.  So let me show you one method of producing evidence.    You can go to a primary source.  You have been involved in lots of discussions of primary sources.  Here, you get to be the star!  The primary source!

 
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I was going to ignore this entirely but, even though it will do no good, I will go to the trouble of pointing a few things out. 

 
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I can't be bothered to answer all posts. Not one of you has anything to offer but complaints about my snark, insults etc. Your utter blindness to the way you all conduct yourselves is hilarious. If you can't take it, don't dish it out. I push back. All your posts have been, so far as I can recall, complaints about the way I express myself. I have no interest in defending that. If you have a question ask it.

 
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That sad woman is on ignore, as are a couple of others.

You see!  This is evidence that you have written posts about how other people don't deserve to have their questions answered. 

See how easy that was? 

Offline HAL

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Re: Plain Jane Complain
« Reply #92 on: May 09, 2012, 04:57:09 PM »
Plain Jane is in the ER now. There, we're going to discuss how, or even if, she can somehow get along with everybody long enough to carry on a civil discussion. I invite you all to the ER ...

Offline velkyn

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Re: Plain Jane Complain
« Reply #93 on: May 10, 2012, 08:32:45 AM »
Anfauglir has brought up the major point you seem to want to ignore or are inexplicably unaware of.  How does the Catholic Church say one is saved?  And what do the other Christian churches say?  Indeed, what does the bible say about it?
Perhaps you could answer this question, Plain Jane?
The RCC says that one is saved by faith in Jesus Christ. That is what other Christians say, too. Why? Because that is what scripture says.

Now do spring your "trap". I feel reasonably certain that you think you have one.
Not a trap at all, an opportunity for you to show your superior knowledge. :) 

No, that's not what all other Christians say nor what the bible says. I'm sure you'll again rely on the "no true scotsman" fallacy again to try to save face.  You seem to be very uninformed about anyone who you don't agree with.   You see, "Jane",  some Christians believe in predestination.  That idea does not require a freely given faith in Jesus Christ, it depends on the myth of "grace" where this god only allows one to have the ability to accept this supposed savior.  As for what scripture says, you are again mistaken in your willful ignorance.  There are verses that say that works are what get you in, not faith and not claiming to be a Christian, right from JC's mouth (if he existed of course).  Yuo are familiar with the story about the sheep and the goats?  James also seems to agree with this.  Then we have JC's of course famous claim that simple belief in him is indeed the way to get in, from John 3.  There is also Paul who claims that women can only be saved by childbirth.   

The rest of your posts in this thread are wonderful.  The lies, the baseless accusations, the inability to provide evidenec for your false witnessing and the demonstrations of just how "good" a Christian you are.  Please do take your petty frustration out on me and repeatedly demonstrate my hypothesis that religion is false and contributes very little to anyone being a honest empathic human being.

I supsect that a stay in the ER will not help you.  You will try your best to get banned and play the martyr, assuming that this will show just how great a Christian you are.  Unfortunately for you, your own actions, not those of others, do this better than anything else.
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Offline Timtheskeptic

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Re: Plain Jane Complain
« Reply #94 on: May 10, 2012, 08:49:45 AM »
^ That's how i see it too Velkyn. I feel that if we ban her, she would just be "Ah ha, that's how they are all like! I was right!"

Me:What are you looking at Eminem?
Brother: Nothing, Harry Potter.

I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.

Offline Hatter23

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Re: Plain Jane Complain
« Reply #95 on: May 10, 2012, 09:31:03 AM »
^ That's how i see it too Velkyn. I feel that if we ban her, she would just be "Ah ha, that's how they are all like! I was right!"
And the sad thing is the number of Christians who would nod sagely in agreement with her.
An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

And you should feel guilty for this. Give me money.

Offline Timtheskeptic

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Re: Plain Jane Complain
« Reply #96 on: May 10, 2012, 09:33:35 AM »
yes Hatter, it would be sad indeed.
Me:What are you looking at Eminem?
Brother: Nothing, Harry Potter.

I love to read books, just not your Bible. i support gay rights and women's rights. Why? Because i'm tired of the hate, stupidity, and your desire to control us all and make up lies.