Author Topic: Moral Behavior in Animals?  (Read 1907 times)

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Online nogodsforme

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Re: Moral Behavior in Animals?
« Reply #58 on: April 02, 2012, 05:57:19 PM »
In the 70's when I was a kid, we had a big semi-wild male dog and never got him fixed. Nobody else got their dogs fixed that I knew of, either. It was just not something people thought much about-- or we thought it was bad for the dog. Male dogs were supposed to be "intact" and aggressive to be good watchdogs.

Our dog roamed the neighborhood, jumping fences and visiting other doggies.  We would tie him up, but if there was a female around, he would slip the chain and go for a booty call. He was a wonderful doggie, but I assume that he fathered several litters of puppies. And some of them probably met a bad end due to being unwanted.

Now I have two big shelter doggies and both are fixed. Neither has made any unwanted pups and they are great dogs. They are both good watchdogs and very protective of their human family.
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline Nick

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Re: Moral Behavior in Animals?
« Reply #59 on: April 02, 2012, 06:58:34 PM »
I think most of you are missing the point.  Having your animals fixed is against my religious beliefs. Do you know what they call dogs that do that...SLUTS.  Therefore, nobody should get their animals fixed.  They are to bring God's animals into the world.  It is a blessing.  Maybe a few protests at vet clinics are in order.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 07:12:47 PM by Nick »
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Offline atheola

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Re: Moral Behavior in Animals?
« Reply #60 on: April 02, 2012, 07:33:44 PM »
Grandma was a tough old bird. She was abandoned on a doorstep as a baby then treated as a slave till she ran away after 4th grade and lived as a street kid till she married my grandfather. She rung the necks of lots of chickens and probably a few cows, but few people in those days spayed and neutered pets. I can remember my mom going round and round with her about her pets.
You would have taken your life in your hand dumping my grandma in a barrel over kittens.  :o
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Offline joebbowers

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Re: Moral Behavior in Animals?
« Reply #61 on: April 03, 2012, 12:23:35 AM »
I think most of you are missing the point.  Having your animals fixed is against my religious beliefs. Do you know what they call dogs that do that...SLUTS.  Therefore, nobody should get their animals fixed.  They are to bring God's animals into the world.  It is a blessing.  Maybe a few protests at vet clinics are in order.

Well in that case I think you should work to pass a law against fixing animals. After all, good theists know you should force everyone else to practice your religious beliefs. But of course, the resulting overpopulation is none of your fault, and certainly not your responsibility!
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Offline orpat

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Re: Moral Behavior in Animals?
« Reply #62 on: April 03, 2012, 04:25:26 AM »
What would you do if you realized the intelligence of plants? Eat rocks or just become like a vulture? Chickens are not much different than humans in terms of food. Minimum suffering should always be a rule if someone wants to kill another thing for food.

Exactly.
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Offline orpat

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Re: Moral Behavior in Animals?
« Reply #63 on: April 03, 2012, 04:29:59 AM »
Humans don't stop being animals just because we grow older.  So if a two-year old or a three-year old is an animal, then so too is a twenty-year old or a thirty-year old...or a hundred-year old.

This brings many of the Native American beliefs into perspective, though.  They believed, if I recall correctly, that if they killed an animal, it deserved to be used fully, with as little waste as possible.  Because then you were respecting its life, instead of just throwing it away.

Exactly.
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Offline orpat

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Re: Moral Behavior in Animals?
« Reply #64 on: April 03, 2012, 04:45:29 AM »
Grandma was a tough old bird. She was abandoned on a doorstep as a baby then treated as a slave till she ran away after 4th grade and lived as a street kid till she married my grandfather. She rung the necks of lots of chickens and probably a few cows, but few people in those days spayed and neutered pets. I can remember my mom going round and round with her about her pets.
You would have taken your life in your hand dumping my grandma in a barrel over kittens.  :o

Nothing wrong with what your grandma did. She didn't know what she did was wrong , so ok.
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Offline Nick

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Re: Moral Behavior in Animals?
« Reply #65 on: April 03, 2012, 08:00:36 AM »
Someone did a book of all the old forgotten cemeteries around my area a few years back.  In doing the research she discovered that many baby skeletons were discovered in the knot holes of trees around the county.  I guess in the 1800s and even early 1900s when a girl got pregnant she kind of disappeared from public for a while (went to visit aunt Judy).  The baby came and disappeared.  Don't know how the good Christians justified this but drowning kittens seems minor in this case.
Yo, put that in your pipe and smoke it.  Quit ragging on my Lord.

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Offline kindred

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Re: Moral Behavior in Animals?
« Reply #66 on: April 03, 2012, 09:08:12 AM »
@seppuku

Ethics have a whole lot more substance than morality. Ethics are the well reasoned arguments about the what to dos in a professional setting. They are the product of a professional in a field thinking about the consequences of an action and weighing the pros and cons.

There is an abundance of  literature on medical ethics exploring the ethics of certain specific medical practices. Take for example the practice of treating the diceased body as a non-entity, it has been explored many a times over. With the most common conclusion that in a western setting it is only valid because of the prevalence of the "ghost-in-the-shell" line of thinking(a human is a "ghost" that controls the mortal vessel) and that great care should be taken in treating deceased humans that have family from other cultures.

Edit: streamlining grammar.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2012, 09:11:21 AM by kindred »
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Online nogodsforme

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Re: Moral Behavior in Animals?
« Reply #67 on: April 03, 2012, 02:43:41 PM »
Someone did a book of all the old forgotten cemeteries around my area a few years back.  In doing the research she discovered that many baby skeletons were discovered in the knot holes of trees around the county.  I guess in the 1800s and even early 1900s when a girl got pregnant she kind of disappeared from public for a while (went to visit aunt Judy).  The baby came and disappeared.  Don't know how the good Christians justified this but drowning kittens seems minor in this case.

The "back forty" of many homes in third world countries probably have a few of those baby skeletons, too.  No need for nice married women, or respectable girls from good families to control their fertility. Birth control and abortion is only for promiscuous sluts. Nothing to see here. Move along.

As if secret infanticide is somehow better than family planning.
:(
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.

Offline atheola

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Re: Moral Behavior in Animals?
« Reply #68 on: April 03, 2012, 02:51:21 PM »
This book of superstitions my daughter had deals a lot in death rituals and peoples silly fears.. If I get real ambitious I'll copy a bunch with this new fangled smart phone.
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Offline kin hell

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Re: Moral Behavior in Animals?
« Reply #69 on: April 10, 2012, 09:39:17 PM »
Just noticed this (haven't time to watch atm but thought it may interest sight unseen)

Quote
Empathy, cooperation, fairness and reciprocity -- caring about the well-being of others seems like a very human trait. But Frans de Waal shares some surprising videos of behavioral tests, on primates and other mammals, that show how many of these moral traits all of us share.


http://www.ted.com/talks/frans_de_waal_do_animals_have_morals.html?utm_source=newsletter_weekly_2012-04-10&utm_campaign=newsletter_weekly&utm_medium=email
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all edits are for spelling or grammar unless specified otherwise

Offline Tero

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Re: Moral Behavior in Animals?
« Reply #70 on: April 11, 2012, 06:31:07 AM »
Someone did a book of all the old forgotten cemeteries around my area a few years back.  In doing the research she discovered that many baby skeletons were discovered in the knot holes of trees around the county.  I guess in the 1800s and even early 1900s when a girl got pregnant she kind of disappeared from public for a while (went to visit aunt Judy).  The baby came and disappeared.  Don't know how the good Christians justified this but drowning kittens seems minor in this case.
In Scandinavian countries you took a "sickly" baby to an Angel Maker at the edge of town or in some cabin in the woods. A few weeks later the baby died (of starvation) and she brought it back to be buried. Well, Finland and Sweden anyway, not sure if the custom was in the other countries.

Offline velkyn

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Re: Moral Behavior in Animals?
« Reply #71 on: April 11, 2012, 08:54:42 AM »
In Scandinavian countries you took a "sickly" baby to an Angel Maker at the edge of town or in some cabin in the woods. A few weeks later the baby died (of starvation) and she brought it back to be buried. Well, Finland and Sweden anyway, not sure if the custom was in the other countries.

how horrible. cruelty at its finest.
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Online nogodsforme

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Re: Moral Behavior in Animals?
« Reply #72 on: April 11, 2012, 02:05:45 PM »
In Scandinavian countries you took a "sickly" baby to an Angel Maker at the edge of town or in some cabin in the woods. A few weeks later the baby died (of starvation) and she brought it back to be buried. Well, Finland and Sweden anyway, not sure if the custom was in the other countries.

how horrible. cruelty at its finest.
I know.
Like the unwanted babies that get smothered or given sleeping pills in the milk bottle in poor countries today. But as long as women don't use birth control, it's all good. And abortion is a sin, you know.

Is it any wonder that the infant mortality rate goes down when women have access to good birth control and other basic rights? People can't be against women if they claim to love babies. &)
Extraordinary claims of the bible don't even have ordinary evidence.

Kids aren't paying attention most of the time in science classes so it seems silly to get worked up over ID being taught in schools.